Fair enough. Let’s agree to disagree for now in that case.
I want to apologize for letting myself get sidetracked onto this discussion today in the first place. I had a bit of a rough day personally so I was looking for things that might make me smile a bit. It was fun for me, but probably not the best use of our limited time.
You don’t get a vote. 
I really do hope there is a dead thread or something for this game story, and that any spectators are at least half as amused as I am.
NEVER SPEAK OF THAT MOMENT TO ME AGAIN.
And the worst part is, that’s not even my worst-played moment in Mafia. Which is pretty impressive considering it led to two, maybe three power roles being forced to claim.
Wow, really? That is an incredibly disingenuous argument. First of all, you completely disregard that in my vote, I cited both the potential PIS as well as Romanic’s actions after the PIS was alleged.
Second of all, “Basically the same crime”? I mean, the mere fact that nobody voted for Oy! should serve as a pretty good indication that nobody thought that his “crime”(for lack of a better word) was in the same area code as Romanic’s. Is anybody believing what Chipacabra is selling here? Does anybody think that because I used the words “perfect information syndrome” to describe a possible reason for Oy!'s actions that I must have believed that it was basically the same crime as Romanic’s? Does anybody think that is reasonable? More to the point, does anybody believe that Chipacabra could have reasonably concluded that I believed them to be basically the same crime?
This vote stinks, and if it weren’t for the fact that I have a strict rules against OMGUS votes I’d be strong considering voting for you.
So, I’ve tried to parse the last day, but so much has happened and there’s so much discussion that it’s getting hard to keep track. For the moment, I’m returning to my vote on Wanderers; I really didn’t like his encouragement of Oy. He’s also dropped off rather precipitously.
vote wanderers
In other news, I’m not a fan of Chipacabra’s pursuit of** Rystro**. I think it’s thin. So far it hasn’t crossed the line into scummy, but it’s something that I’ve been watching with interest. If I had a second vote, it would be on him or Total Lost (for fishing, which i think is a real scum tell). Total bothers me more now that someone (i forget who) clarified that the vanilla PMs in Evil Dead 1 were identical and that Total should remember this.
Well. That’s certainly a reaction!
A policy not-vote?
I do agree that the situation with Romanic was quite different in manner and degree than the situation with Oy!
I still don’t understand the policy against voting for someone you think is scummy. I must assume you meant to hesitate before casting a vote to be sure it isn’t based too heavily on OMGUS
Any vote against oneself is IMO by necessity going to look way more scummy than a similarly-reasoned vote against another player. I know that I am Town, and therefore that the reasoning against me is incorrect. And to be honest that tends to make me a little angry. And so I won’t place a vote if my primary reasoning for that vote would be that a case made against me was invalid. I may miss voting for scum on occasion with this rule, but IMO that’s a fair trade for me not making poor, emotionally-driven posts. If a player is scum there will be other evidence to base a vote on. Hopefully I’ll be able to be more objective about that other evidence and make a better decision about whether it’s worth a vote.
Frankly, I find the fact that Rysto said all that and then didn’t vote against me to be MORE suspicious. My original vote wasn’t much more than a prod anyway!
Oh, please. Where’s the scum motivation there?
Chipa, I just don’t see your case. And Rysto has defended himself quite handily, I think.
My reservation about voting for Wanderers is also in line with Rysto’s explanation of wanting to avoid voting under the influence of OMGUS, and it is compounded by the fact that Wanderer’s participation level so far gives precious little to compare or contrast with the statement that is bringing him heat.
Oredigger has a higher volume of suspect statements, but he has a higher volume of statements in general.
I’m chiming in late, but Chipa, I agree with Rysto and Cookies. Had he responded with an OMGUS vote, that might have seemed scummy to me. But I don’t consider defending himself without a corresponding vote to be suspicious in the least.
Can you explain your reasoning to me here, please?
What’s this obsession with my case? My vote was a prod. There was behavior that was a little suspicious, I poked, and the reaction I got does NOT seem like a townie reaction.
If Rysto had shrugged me off, I’d have withdrawn my vote.
If Rysto had made the same countercase he did, but then backed his words up with a vote, I’d probably have withdrawn my vote. Or at least considered it.
Instead, he smeared me, but didn’t back it up. And that’s fishy to me, so that’s where my vote’s staying at the moment. No, I’m not certain. But I don’t have a strong scum feel on anyone else right now, so I’m voting where I DO have a suspicion. Why is that so strange?
I don’t think it was a prod vote. You made specific arguments based on previous posts. This wasn’t like voting for a low-participation player to get them involved. This was a reasoned argument. Unfortunately, I find your reasoning to be incredibly spurious and illogical. In addition, you handwave away the case against **Oredigger **and the exchange between **Idle Thoughts **and Drain Bead based on your intuition?! I’m willing to step in where others aren’t.
vote Chipacabra
I understand you like to use your votes to prod players, but you have to at least make a reasonable argument when you do so, or at least state ahead of time that this is a prod vote for lack of participation. You can’t very well put together a (lousy) case, make a vote and then come back later and say it was just a prod! Also I disagree that his reaction is more Scummy. In fact, you say that if he’d ignored you, you’d have taken your vote off? What kind of policy is that?
Why in the world not? Votes are a tool. Townies unwilling to use their votes to try to learn things are bad townies. This early in the Day, every vote could be a prod vote. On Day 1, every case is going to be a lousy case. The absolute best case we’ve had all day was against Romanic, and it was wrong.
And a prod doesn’t work if you call it a prod. A vote that isn’t backed by at least SOME willingness to follow through with it is meaningless.
If that’s how you read it. All I was trying to say is that I don’t find the case convincing, so I’m not voting that way. On the other hand, I don’t have a super solid town read on them either, so I’m not trying to change anyone’s votes there.
I in fact said no such thing. I said if he had shrugged me off which is very different than ignoring me.
Anyway. I’ve thought about it some more, and I’m persuaded. Not convinced, but persuaded. Since no one else thinks it’s weird, I’m willing to credit Rysto’s reaction as Just How Things Are here. It’s not a playstyle I particularly credit, but I’ve been in that boat all three games.
unvote Rysto
I’ve said it before though: In my experience, people that react indignantly to an early prod vote have a higher chance of being scum. It’s more true when they flinch to a vote against someone else, but it’s still valid when they flinch to a vote against themself. Maybe it’s not great odds (asspull guess, maybe 30%) but those odds are still better than a vote against any random other player.
I’m going to
vote Chipacabra
I think the Rysto vote was really weak. The vast majority of town had voted Romanic’s slip, so it is not meaningful that Oy had voted Romanic over Oy, when Oy has only made what Rysto thought was maybe a slip.
9.9
It feels like yelling into the void sometimes.
Of course my original vote was weak. Every vote toDay is weak. My point is to stir things up early enough in the Day to make a less weak vote.
There seems to be an idea that every vote needs a solid argument behind it. That’s total nonsense. A call to lynch needs a solid argument, but a vote doesn’t have be a call to lynch.
It almost feels like people care about my vote more than it’s worth. Maybe I’m wrong, but it feels like if someone else had made the same vote I did, people would just say they agree or disagree and vote accordingly.
Or maybe you’re all scum. </paranoid>
The Night restriction is a bit of a disincentive: IIRC in ED1 most if not all scum had a separate power over and above the NK. If we’re in a similar situation, they won’t want to lose that. However, while their numbers are at their max, they’ve got the lowest disincentive.
While I take your point about revealing the vanillas, I really do think it’s important that we know who’s had the book. It may be crucial, in the end game, to understand just what capabilities the scum might have. According to story, we should have some chance of seeing who took it:
In any case, I suggest that whoever gets the book claims it at Dawn. And in fact shares anything they’ve learnt about it, and I would strongly suggest reveals if they used a Power from it. (This will at least help us make sense of Night Actions). Anyone who is later found to have had the Book but not told us is an easy candidate for a lynch. Assuming Town have an Alignment Cop of some description, holders of the Book will probably make as good a target for investigation as any. This will mean that a) it’s risky both for Scum to claim the Book or to take it without admission and b) that vanillas who take the Book have a good shot of becoming confirmed Town which makes them at least as dangerous to Scum as a power-role.
Alas, not everyone does:
I’m assuming this is some kind of wind-up. The Book is a tool that can help Town, or help Scum. While it’s obviously best if it helps Town, I am prepared to sacrifice that in return for it not helping Scum. For all I know, both you and NAF actually are Town, it’s quite alright that it falls into your hands and I shouldn’t be worrying my pretty little head about it. But you’ll understand if I’m at least wary of the possibility you’re not. The idea that we should just let people take the Book and not concern ourselves with finding out which team has just benefited from that is ludicrous. If you take the Book, you’re going to come under extra scrutiny because we will need to know which side just got a boost.
As for it being difficult to co-ordinate 29 of us, it’s really not that hard. During the Day:
If we can collectively resist the urge to go for the shiny thing, we can stop Scum from getting the Book during the Day. Once we have confirmed Town, we can monopolise it during the Day. The only difficult thing about it is impulse control.
Except that you made a case that was just awful.
Romanic was the best case we had toDay. You admitted it yourself. You chose to vote for him.
All Rysto did was point out some information about Oy that he found suspicious.
You voted him for not voting for the weaker case.
It reminds me a little of the case against Idle. He saw something he thought was suspicious, commented on it, but vote for something else that is more suspicious.
I’ll be offline most of the day today.
I’m a teacher and we have a field trip for most of the day, then cross country practice, and then I’m going out for dinner.
So, I won’t be able to get here too often.
I’m sorry, but I can’t go along with putting limits on who gets the book.
First off, we may not have confirmed Town for a while, and we have no clue what NAF is, so that means the book can be in Scum’s hands for a while. And if it works anything like it did in the last game, this means that Scum can keep racking up powers while we wait to find someone we’re comfortable giving it to. Even saying that confirmed or confirmable Town (aka Masons), or just vanilla Town should take it ends up showing Scum who to go after. I’m fine with a free-for-all–frankly, I don’t want it in the possession of any one person for long until I know that person is Town, so I’m not willing to say that nobody should grab the book right now and that NAF should just hang onto it until we get someone better.
I mean, really, should we be lynching NAF right now because he’s unconfirmed and he has the book? Because if we go by what Stanislaus and (to a slightly lesser extent) Normal are requesting, the ultimate result is that we could potentially have a Scum holding the book racking up powers while we wait for someone that everyone’s comfortable giving it to. At this point, I’d hope that everyone who is Town will want to go for the book, because at least you know you’re Town, which is more than we can say about NAF at the moment. And if Scum manages to get it, at least they might not keep it for long.
I haven’t yet read everything between this quoted post and the end of the thread, I just want to address it and don’t want to go back and find it.
Macey was lynched day one by her fellow scummy scummertons. It was either a brilliant plan to bus her right out of the gate or an enormous fuck up.
And sadly, it was the latter and orchestrated by yours truely. Macey had a different username on the off board scum thread and I didn’t know she was on my team when I voted for her. As I recall, she said something that could have been construed as suspicious and I twisted her words around and made a vote. Then, when I realized my mistake, I couldn’t back track.
So, Macey is a bad example of scum fishing.