Yeah, Esprix. As a guy on another board I used to frequent said, “your sexual choice is just that … a choice.”
[sub]No, I don’t go over there anymore…[/sub]
A choice. Uh huh. Ask him if he could “choose” to be attracted to men.
jackelope, never bother with reason when a combination of willful blind ignorance and fingers-in-ears is in use.
Beside which, he said he couldn’t in “good faith” do that, because it would be “inviting the sin of homosexuality into his body” or something like that. Took a few months to get any answer from him on that one.
I’m sorry, I just couldn’t let this one go by without responding. I have seen many “fundamentalist” individuals and churches do countless things to improve the world we live in. Just recently some members of my church visited some orphanages in Russia and when they came back they were so touched by those kids that they decided to fund a new program to provide food, clothing, housing and education for those kids. When 9/11 took place some members took what would normally be a months worth of tithes and offerings for the church, to New York and handed out cash to victims and their families.
You may not believe in the same way we do, but there’s just no way you can say that we do “nothing to help the world we’re in”, that’s just ridiculous.
I think Kirk may be slightly confusing fundamentalist with Fundie. As several posters on here can attest, there is a significant difference. The person I referred to a few posts ago in this thread is a Fundie. DDG et al are fundamentalists.
I hope you can appreciate the difference:)
Actually I did not know there was a difference. I’ve been called a Fundie Christian AND a ** Fundamentalist** Christian. So which one is which?
I thought they were the same thing – Like Jew and Jewish or Chevy and Chevrolet. Go figure.
I cannot comprehend why Christians who do not worship a god of hate or believe in biblical innerancy would call themselves “fundies” or take offense at comments about fundies.
You are not fundamentalists. You are far better than that.
I used to use the term “Fundaloonie” to describe what is being used here.
A fundamentalist believes in the Five Fundamentals (AKA TULIP) of Christianity – under one version or another. (DDG or one of the other intelligent fundamentalists or students of theology here can post the link to those statements; I don’t have it handy and am not interested in wading through great quantities of glurge to find it.)
This does not imply that the person’s motivations are not principally those taught by Christ, which would include help to/through charitable causes, kindness to others, etc.
For some people, however, the need to argue for their particular understanding of what Christianity ought to be in their opinion outweighs the need to behave as Christ taught, and results in things like the “Under God” fracas, the Concerned Women of America, Wildmon’s bizarreries, Falwell’s blaming of all evils on gays and liberals, the Creation Science garbage, and so on.
These latter folks are, in my mind, Fundaloonies. It’s not a slam on fundamentalist belief as such – it’s a slam on letting the tail wag the dog, so to speak.
Also, I will point out that a friend of mine credit Fundamentalist Christianity with saving her life, just as I credit a different form of Christianity with saving mine. That said, I agree with Polycarp that there are too many Christians of all stripes out there who are too busy condemning those of us who are different rather than giving the acceptance we need before we can find Jesus. After all, I can’t look under the couch if you won’t let me in the living room. 
CJ
I am loathe at this point to post to a BBP Pit thread, but I think this statement needs ammending to the tune of a <i> many </i> or <i> most </i>.
Okay, I give up. How do I include HTML in replies?
HTML codes are turned off on this message board; use vB Code instead.
Yeah, I know, I know. In fact, I must admit I get irrationally boiled about this kind of thing myself, though on the what’s-your-fucking-homophobic-problem end of the spectrum (should probably mention here that I’m straight). This may be due to having had a gay, and moderately famous, great-uncle (Dick Sargent, of Bewitched fame–the second Darren) who spent his entire life in the closet, only coming out when he learned he was dying of cancer and it was too late to crush his career.
It kills me to think of the insults he had to ignore, the gay jokes he had to laugh along with, the looking in the mirror and wondering, “Is today the day I lose my job for no fucking reason?” He was a spectacularly great guy, and I never once saw a glimmer of the unhappiness he must have learned to deal with early.
By the way, I have a question/minor hijack: I know it’s supposed to be the epitome of ignorance for someone to say, “Some of my best friends are black/gay/non-mainstream,” but I have never been able to figure out why. I mean, some of my best friends really ARE black, and some ARE gay, and some ARE otherwise non-mainstream. Am I supposed to not realize this? I just don’t get it. Sorry for the hijack, but I can’t figure this out.
It’s not gauche to say that. It’s gauche to use it as a lame defence when called on racism/homophobia/etc. “Fuckin’ faggots, I hope they put them on an island and they all get AIDS and die! What? What? I’m not homophobic, some of my best friends,” etc, etc. This actually happens.
I think it’s supposed to partially intimate that one has friends in the relevant community that do not object to the sort of idea one has just espoused and been called on.
True, iampunha, but in a world in which Rich Tafel exists and gets press coverage, anything is possible!! 
I gotcha. It’s OK on its own, but the problem is when folks say it to excuse some idiotic thing they’ve already said.
Thanks for clearing that up.
His4ever…I don’t know if you are still reading this, but I need to say this.
I appreciate the fact that you are going to try to present your beliefs in a more loving and kind manner. But…please re-read your most recent post? And may I reword this part of it…the way it reads to me? (bolding my interpretation of your thought)
“Yes, I know that there are many people who don’t share my and other Christians (the ones who don’t agree with me, who aren’t REALLY Christians) belief system.”
See, here is the thing. I am a…if you will…fundamentalist Christian. I believe that the Bible is inspired by God, and not some kind of fiction. I also, however, know that the Bible was translated out of the original language…by man, and man is NOT infallible. Men translated it…and until I am able to read the “original” version, (which is unlikely) and until it contradicts my beliefs, (which I don’t believe would happen even if I COULD read it) I am not going to believe that the God of Love that I believe in, follow and worship condemns homosexuals. The Son of God preached love and forgiveness, and I believe that this is the foundation of our, and I would hope YOUR, faith.
The Bible states, MANY times in different ways, that it is a sin to judge others. IF homosexuality is a sin, and I am not convinced that it IS, then of certainty…it is NOT YOUR PLACE TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION!!! In fact, IT IS A SIN FOR YOU TO BE JUDGING OTHERS.
If you wish to present the love of Christ to the people on this board,or elsewhere for that matter, I would like to submit to you that you are instead presenting hate and condemnation…you are judging others, and that is not your right or responsibility to present. In fact, doing so is a sin. And since every sin is the same in God’s eye’s, even if those you condemn ARE sinning, they are not sinning any more than YOU are.
Whether homosexuality IS a sin or not is not my point here, (and I pretty much believe that it isn’t…I don’t believe God would have created people with an attraction for people of their own gender if it was a sin. But it doesn’t really matter one way or the other, since it isn’t any of my business)… My point is…it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t MATTER if it is a sin or not. Judging others for THEIR supposed sin IS A SIN IN AND OF ITSELF…and YOU are guilty of it.
And the violent and the attendent atrocities that occur because people hold this attitude (re: the Matthew Shepard murder and increasing and horrible incidents of gay-bashing) and use it to justify their beliefs and actions are of certainty abhorrent to the Lord. I have NO doubt about THAT.
I accept that you believe that you are trying to “save” people from their “sin”. I believe that you mean well, and are trying to present the gospel. But…I think you should realize that only God is perfect enough to judge what is sin and what isn’t. And until you are Christ (and that isn’t going to happen anytime soon) it isn’t your place to judge.
I believe your good intentions. I only ask that you examine your own fundamental truths here…did God put us on this earth to present the truth in a loving way, or to condemn people who don’t accept the truth the way YOU/WE embrace it? My understanding is that the Holy Spirit is in charge of “conviction.” Present the truth the way you perceive it, by all means…beyond that, I don’t believe it is Biblical for you to condemn people who don’t accept it.
And jackelope? I loved your uncle in Bewitched…he was a truly charming and darling man, from what I could tell. I am so SO sorry that he had to live his life in the closet. His sexuality should have had no bearing on his job, or his popularity, or anything at ALL. He appears to have been a dollface.
::: just to humbly bow and applaud in Scotti’s direction :::
To misappropriate a quote:
“Well done, thou good and faithful servant.”
His4Ever, do you grasp what’s being said to you by sincere Christians like myself, CJ, and Scotti? What you are doing may be sincere and founded on your belief in the Bible’s total veracity, but it’s not only not showing any sort of compassion or understanding towards your fellow man, it’s helping to foster an atmosphere of hate. And that is one thing I am certain Jesus frowns on.
I’d really like to see you engage in conversation regarding this – and please do not be turned off by the people who see what you’re saying as sitting in judgment over them. Put yourself in their shoes, and return kindness for anger, as we’re told to do. Then listen to them and answer out of your faith in God. (A prayer to the Holy Spirit for guidance in composing your answer wouldn’t hurt either.)