Fuck you, Christian Evangelists!

The BBQ Pit
341

Others have said it more gently than me, but I have to toss in my two cents:

His4Ever, you come across on the boards as a close-minded, close-hearted, bigotted, and hateful bitch.

Yeah, yeah, you’ll probably disregard everything I say because I was “rude.” Well, I’m calling it as I see it, as you claim to do.

I grew up in the Bible Belt, West Virginia, to be exact. My family is Canadian and Catholic. I really don’t want to take the time to describe what life was like dealing with assholes who used the exact same “arguments” and “logic” that you do to denigrate my family, my ancestry, my co-religionists, and my self. Suffice it to say, no appeal to reason or compassion worked with people like you. Avoiding them whenever possible was the only solution.

I’ve got to agree with others on the board that call you a bigot. Deal with it, His, the shoe fits. Very well.

For the record: My wife and I are happily heathen (atheist) at this time. We have plenty of love for each other and the rest of humanity without relying on any gods, especially the horror show that His worships.

Please spare us any concern for our souls. We both find any religious claims to “eternity” utterly unbelievable, m’kay?

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What I mean is, she doesn’t set out to be one. She doesn’t do it from the idea that “them’s there folks is inferior to us White Christians”.

It’s more that she THINKS she’s helping others, but she’s not.

That’s all.

343

The hamsters ate my post.

Ben, I’m sure you will consider this answer a copout, but it is the only answer that I can honestly give: Only God knows.

She claims to be motivated by the teachings and grace of Christ. Some of her actions certainly seem to belie that. I believe it’s not my job to judge her, and I’m trying to hold to that.

Elsewhere, she has posted enthusiastic approval of threads which call me an apostate who teaches false doctrine, and tries to buy the approval of people by saying only what they want to hear. While I’ll admit I dislike unnecessary confrontation, I say what I believe, or keep quiet if I feel I cannot do any good in a situation.

I will state that she declined to post in a thread where people were agreeing with Ann Coulter in calling all us liberals traitors.

It is taking a great deal of willpower to keep from holding a grudge about all these comments, and starting to return hostility for hostility.

But I will say that the return of Wildest Bill would be an improvement.

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His4ever, I found this cite for you, by the LDS, what do you think about it?
So it can be said that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers, in the sense of both being spiritually begotten by the Father, but it is a misrepresentation to say so without giving the contextual background. Whatever similarities in background exist between Jesus and Satan pale compared to the differences. Jesus is the Beloved and Chosen, who is the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh.

Sorta kinda hijack[/]
Monty, I was wondering, what is your official stance on homosexuality? I was reading the LDS cite, and it is looks at homosexuality as a problem that gays and lesbians need help with.

Homosexuality

end of hijack[/]

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Bad, bad hamsters!

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Where was this? And is her nonparticipation a mark for her, or against her?

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Who says anything about a grudge? I’m just asking you whether you think she’s a bigot. It’s pretty clear that her behavior is nasty, hurtful, and narrow-minded.

Let me put it this way: if she were really motivated by love rather than hate, wouldn’t she stop at some point and think, “Hey- if Catholics are telling me that they don’t worship Mary, maybe I need to look more deeply into both sides and figure out where the truth lies”?

That’s strong criticism, given that Wildest Bill repeatedly called for genocide.

I appreciate your candor, Polycarp.

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That seems pretty close to judging to me. You seem pretty skeptical of her motivations there.

What if she’s right about all that she’s saying? Aren’t we then all in grave danger of hellfire ourselves, or at least sending others there, for the acceptance of sin that we are propagating? How do we know she’s not right in her stances on Christianity? (I will state that she should be using LDS sources to put forth the argument that Mormonism is not Christian, however.) I personally don’t particularly wish that her version of Christianity is right, but how can we be certain that it isn’t?

Would you be willing to post links to some of those threads?

Again, I’d request you link to that thread too, please?

There also might be a difference of opinion on Ann Coulter. I doubt that someone agreeing with the opinions of Ann Coulter is meant as a personal attack on anyone.

Same here. At any rate, I certainly see entirely too much hostility aimed towards H4e. What if she’s right? (This isn’t exclusive to anyone – there’s simply so much hostility in general towards her that I simply can’t believe it sometimes.)

If I were ever to become a Christian again, and I “thank God” that I have no plans to do so, the H4e brand of Christianity would look a whole lot more appealing than the liberal kind right now.

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If she’s right, then I will happily go to hell.

348

If she’s right, hell’s going to be one nasty place. If she’s right, I don’t like how God doesn’t let me believe in Him, however.

349

Your defense of lies is to say, “maybe they’re right”?

350

Maybe so. I can’t demonstrate conclusively that they aren’t right. I can hope they are not, I can gather evidence that they are not, but I can’t be certain of such.

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Easy. Her version of Christianity rests on the assertion that the Bible contains no error. This is an easily falsifiable assertion. The Bible contains many factual statements which can be disproven, It also contains internal logical contradictions. The Bible is demonstrably errant, therefore H4E’s religious worldview is demonstrably false. QED.

Also, it goes without saying that if H4E’s vision is true then God is nothing more than a hate-filled, capering hobgoblin who deserves no love or fealty whatever. As Lilaren said, Hell would be the only moral choice in such a paradigm.

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Jersey: Are you illiterate? I don’t have any official position on anytyhing. I am not an organization. The answer to your query is in the link you posted.

Anyway, you bitch, why should you care about something you’ve labelled “an unfunny joke”?

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A nastier place than hell would be the eternal presence of something I can only see as evil. If hell means being quit of such vileness, then hell it is, and joyously.

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Bear in mind that if H4E’s demon is really running the universe, then a gibbering madman is in charge. If God were really that evil and capricious, then who knows what he might do? Maybe the Bible really is divinely inspired, but God’s little joke is that the Bible is just bait, and that Christians are the ones who will go to hell for believing it.

Once you posit a God who is evil, or even merely a God who is beyond human conceptions of justice, a God who cannot be understood by human intelligence, a God who cannot be justified in recognizable human terms, then it’s hopeless to try to play by its rules, because its rules just can’t be understood. It’s as if some supervillain set up a machine that will kill you if you don’t solve calculus problems, and then put a cockroach in it. “Hurry, cockroach! Why are you not struggling for your life? Why do you not solve the calculus problem?”

When she dies, His4Ever might find that God created the entire universe just so that everyone could go to heaven except two people. His4Ever has to spend eternity in hell, but not torture hell, just separated-from-God-stand-in-the-corner-hell. Why? Was it her behavior at the SDMB? No. Homophobia? No. Remarriage? No. What then? She once ate a fudgsicle. Don’t lots of people do that? Yes, but they don’t use the screen name “His4Ever.” It’s the two together that made her worthy of hell. (Hey, it makes as much sense as God forbidding homosexuality.)

The other one is Ephrem Zimbalist Jr. He goes to torture hell. Why? God is beyond your understanding. But what about the Bible? God lied. Isn’t that immoral? Well, sometimes parents do things that seem bad to kids, but that’s just because the kids aren’t mature enough to understand.

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His4Ever, I didn’t expect Diamond Jersey to answer my questions, but I thought you might give it a try. All of those beliefs that I listed are the the foundation of the Mormons – also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.

I am not a Mormon. I don’t believe all of the things that they believe. But when I look at their Articles of Faith and I see you say that they are not “true” Christians, I have to believe that you think that no one is a Christian unless we believe exactly as you do.

You say that you know people who think that after they become Christians, they think that they can do anything they want and it’s okay. That is a terrible misinterpretation and twisting of the truth.

What they believe is that they are saved by the Grace of God and not because they have become perfect human beings. They acknowledge their sin, ask forgiveness and try to correct the error of their ways. Just like you.

Has being a Christian made you perfect? Do you continue to sin? If you are not perfect, then you are just an ordinary Christian – just like the rest of us. And that is sufficient.

When I was seventeen I bought a book called The Faiths Men Live By by Charles Francis Potter. I got it because I wanted to understand what other people believe. It describes the main teachings of the great religions of the world and then it goes into more detail about various Christian groups. It is written in such a way as to inform – not to convert or condemn. It is very non-critical of any of the faiths. And I keep it within easy reach. It is on my computer desk as I type.

If you really want to know what other people believe, such an unbiased book as this would be helpful to you. I doubt that this book is still in print. (Being seventeen was a long time ago for me!):slight_smile: But I’m certain that you could find something similar in a library.

But if you continue to spread vicious gossip about other Christians, I can’t just sit by and see you stomp human beings into the ground this way without speaking up. May God forgive you the damage you have done in his name.

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Seems rather capricious, but I suppose the best one can do is hope that their way is the proper way. Maybe God’s way is similar to that of H4e. I hope not, because it seems rather bizarre and beyond what seems logical, but if it is, then I must try my best to understand such a deity’s logic and follow it as well as I can.

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What we’ve seen here is why the “Fundamentalist Crusade” in (against) Iraq will fail; that is, if it ever gets going–and I hope it doesn’t. Those crusaders will take up their Bible, unread or at least uncomprehended, and start spouting how better their theology, also uncomprehended by them, than the local faith and prove it by spouting complete falsehoods or at best halftruths about the local faith will completely alienate those they’re “helping.”

Good grief! AFAIK, most of the posters dealing with these individuals are just amateurs in Theology. You’ve seen what happens when they’re pressed for complete and analytical comments regarding their assertions about faiths that are right next door to them. Just imagine what it’ll be like when they pull this stunt overseas and manage to portray their country in a bad light in addition to the damage they’ve been doing to Christianity already.

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Let me clear up one thing in my last posting above: I hope the Fundamentalist Crusade in Iraq doesn’t get going.

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I think it’s already started. :frowning:

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If His4Ever’s beliefs are right, then I, too will choose to burn in hell for all eternity for two reasons. First, most of the people I love most will be there, including my father (agnostic), possibly my mother (considers herself Christian, but I’ve no idea if she has a personal relationship with Christ), my baby brother (agnostic), my other brother and his family (Catholic), and 6 of my closest friends (1 nominal Christian, but no personal relationship with Christ; 1 Catholic; 2 homosexuals, one of whom is Catholic; 2 Wiccans who were Fundamentalist Christians). Polycarp and his wife are in the clear by her standards, but somehow I think he might opt out of heaven, too. Second, the behaviour of the God she describes is offensive and obnoxious enough that I will not worship such an entity, and I’ve told Him so on more than one occaision. Then again, if she’s right, I’m probably damned by that last statement of mine anyway, and if not by that one, then I am sure there are other things I can be condemned for, including my disbelief in Biblican inerrancy and my pro-choice politics.

lel, I understand where you’re coming from, and I have struggled with it during the past 6 months myself, as you might have gathered. For me, the bottom line has come down to this: if what His4Ever believes about God is right, if He is merciless and judgemental, then I cannot believe in Him, and, even if I claimed to, I would only be mouthing words out of fear. If she is right, most of what I believe and most of my life is a lie, and her version of the Truth will kill me as surely as a bullet to the brain.

My faith and my experience (including something which happened not long after my last post), tells me I am right, but you would hardly expect me to write otherwise. My beliefs are what they are, and I will accept God’s judgement upon them. If they are wrong, at least I have erred out of a sincere, soul-rooted desire to do right, rather than being right out of fear.

Peace be with all of you,
CJ