So, nothing your god has done or will do will stop you from following him, because he is a god? I think that throwing all morals and ethics out the window in favor of a “Might makes Right” kind of philosophy is wrong any way you look at it, myself.
Is there nothing that your god can do that would cause you to say, “I know that you exist, but I can no longer follow you.”?
Czarcasm: I think that’s the exact mentality of those who refuse to think for themselves on the issue. After DtC & Guin explained the Onion fiasco, I checked the thread and the individual concerned (what an ironic word) essentially responded with, “I don’t care what the facts are! Potter books are evil!”
I for one don’t care if anyone evangelizes or preaches their faith, provided, of course, that they don’t go around spouting lies about other faiths. Isn’t that simple. The one “missionary experience” of my life required no preaching on my part. My friend who converted did so based on my actions, not my rhetoric. I really don’t see why that concept’s so hard for those groups to understand. Wait a second, maybe I do. That method requires thinking for oneself and acting like a decent human being towards everyone.
Actually, my friend converted based on what he believed was the truth. My actions merely supported that.
Hmm, I find it…interesting, Jersey Especially this statement:
I don’t happen to believe that Jesus was created or that there was ever a time that He didn’t exist. John 8:58, 1 John 5:7 (KJV),
Genesis 1:26. Nor do I believe in our pre existence in a spirit form before our births. Your thoughts, Jersey?
To whom it may concern: Once again I see you arguing about the hateful God that I represent when all I attempt to do is share what the Bible says. My faith says it’s the word of God, you don’t accept it, fine. I’m tired of arguing with you. If I’ve misrepresented Him, then I’ll ask His forgiveness. All I can do is go by what He says in His word, which reveals He’s a God of both love and wrath. Some people can’t accept that. You think you know me and know my motives and that I’m a deliberate liar. That’s your privilege. But you do not, in my estimation know me or my motives. It’s true I’m not a great debator or defender of the faith. But I feel I still must try.
The mods might as well close this thread, it’s futile and going nowhere imho.
Rather egotistical statement, no? You didn’t originate the thread. You just don’t like how it’s going. If you don’t like it, stay out of it.
I see, sighh, that you don’t know or understand me as I don’t understand many of you. I haven’t condemned anyone person, I don’t have that right. I’ve simply repeated…no forget it. Why bother? I’m tired. I’m sorry that I can’t get across my concerns without making everyone angry. I just can’t agree with everyone here. I’ve got more I can say but feel like I’m beating my head on a wall and I doubt I’m going to change anyone’s opinion of me. See you later.
Didn’t you have something better to do, His4Ever?
BTW, His4Ever; nobody’s asked you to agree with everyone here. They’ve merely asked for you to do two very simple things, two things that a Christian should have no problem with: Learn of what you speak, and don’t tell lies.
Twelve hours and a bit of sanity later, I see that I’m spouting the fundie version of Pascal’s Wager. Somehow, I’ve managed to do this without recognizing it three or four times in the past six months. My apologies.
Czarcasm, aside from the fact that I am not currently following any deity, there is one thing said deity could say that would make me even stop wanting to follow it. That would be, “Even if you don’t follow me, you don’t go to hell.” (Yes, I’m easily motivated by hellfire and brimstone. How quaint, I know.)
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Siege speaks for me, too – and eloquently.
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lel, you are completely within your rights to ask for cites. I am going to decline your request, because I have been treading vry close to the line on the rule here against doing things that would cause interboard wars, and fulfilling your reasonable request would IMHO put me well across that line. You and I have belonged to three boards in common; if you go to the other one which has more to do with Italian takeout food than with coal (which, BTW, I have terminated all affiliation with), and look in the two forums where you might find the Wall Street Journal and lettuce, you will be easily able to find the threads in question and can form your own judgment. I will readily admit to some overreacting in response to accusations thrown at groups I belong to.
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Also to lel: In direct response to Ben’s question, I gave my impressions of where HiseEver is coming from. I admit they were slanted by her ready willingness to agree with posts condemning my church and its doctrinal stances. I’ve gone against the Weltanschaaung here a number of times by saying that I understand that from her own perspective, His is doing precisely what she believe she is called to do by her Lord, and deserves not condemnation for preaching hate but critiquing for horrendously poor technique in her witnessing.
Those are the best answers I can give to your very very valid and probing questions. If you like, we can continue this discussion, either here or in PM.
- His4Ever, I have said that I do not believe you are intentionally purveying evil, and I reaffirm that. But, since things have come to this head, I respectfully ask that you answer, here, a series of questions:
A. Do you think that I am involved in apostasy?
B. Do you think that I am spreading false teachings?
C. Do you accept the idea that I am attempting to follow the commands of Jesus Christ as they are set forth in the Bible?
D. Do you think that my motivation in saying what I do about Christianity is to “tickle people’s ears with what they want to hear”?
E. Do you think that my political views are “verging on treason”?
These are all things of which I have recently been accused, either directly or by having the accusation leveled against groups that I had previously stated I belong to. In some but not all cases you had posted agreement with the OP which by implication made that accusation. Therefore I feel justified in putting you on the spot and requiring to know if you meant to accuse me as well. Whether or not you agree with the accusations, thank you for clarifying your position. As I’ve said before, I mean no ill against you, regardless of how you may feel about me
Poly, I also suspect that she’s just primarily trying to affirm her own church and its doctrinal stances, but I’ll wait until a response to your further questions has been posted.
As to the above cites, I really see her more as affirming her own church and its stances rather than trying to condemn others, but since you’re asking her, it is best of me to refrain from putting forth a strong opinion until some response is given by her.
I’m also with Siege.
Sadly, His, you are NOT telling us what the BIBLE says. The BIBLE does not say that Catholics worship saints. The BIBLE does not say that Mormons are a cult.
Oh, and BTW, all that page seems to be saying, Jersey, is that if you consider God the Father, the creator of everyone, all the angels and saints, then yeah, TECHNICALLY, he can be called the “father” of Satan.
But that just means he can also be the father of Stan.
And since God is OUR Father, and Christ’s, wouldn’t that make Christ OUR brother? Sort of? It’s just playing with semantics, that’s all.
Did I get that right, Monty? I was always taught that God was everyone’s Father.
This is, to me, the scariest thing that Christians like JerseyDiamond and His4ever can say; (paraphrased) we have to follow what God says because He’s GOD. Especially if those orders from God don’t make sense (for example, homosexuality). But not every bothering to question when they make no sense is the scariest thing of all!
Got it in one, Guin.
This exemplifies to me, why folks will never get through to people like H4E…
A direct biblical quote taken from her on this thread, entitled Jesus is God? in Great Debates:
Colossians 2:8-9-
“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
See, she sees our attempts at rational, reasoned discourse as being corrupting her after the world, instead of enlightening her to things like tolerance and love. That runs in direct juxtaposition to her belief of simply following Christ, and Christ only, through nothing BUT His word. That’s all she needs. Not our immorality through misdirection, deceit and apathy.
To her and her ilk, that is the ONLY authority, ever. You couldn’t ever persuade them otherwise, for presumably, we personify all that is evil. End of discussion to them.
OK, Someone’s4Ever, I’ll keep it simple.
[ul][li]When you say a group of people is condemned does that include the individuals within that group?[/li]A yes or no will suffice to this answer.
[li]Why do you continue to say things about the Catholic and Mormon faiths which you have been told repeatedly are factually incorrect by current followers of those faiths?[/li][li]Do you or do you not think that there may be people who call themselved Baptists or other forms of Fundamentalist Christians who lack a personal relationship with Christ?[/li][li]If the answer to that last question is “Yes”, is it as reasonable to say Baptists or Fundamentalists are not Christians? If no, why is it reasonable to say Catholics or Mormons are not Christians?[/li][li]In what way has your faith transformed your life?[/li][li]Would you choose to become a Christian based what you have posted here? Why or why not?[/li][li]When you listed the sins referred to in 1 Corinthians 6:11, why did you omit slander? [/li][li]Are you aware that your actions in this thread meet the definition of slander?[/li]While we’re on the subject of 1 Corinthians,
[li]How do you feel about 1 Corinthians 7:39-40? Does it apply to you?[/li]
Most importantly:
[li]Who do you serve?[/ul][/li]I’ll repeat the paragraph which applies to that question from yesterday’s post, changing the words to reflect your statement that “I haven’t condemned anyone person, I don’t have that right.”
You may not condemn individuals, but you are in the habit of condemning whole groups of people without taking the trouble to find out anything about them.
I admit you’ve been asked a lot of questions here, and I don’t expect you to answer all of mine. I do want an answer to “Who do you serve?” because right now, I genuinely don’t know your answer to that one. Some of the questions Polycarp and I have asked you are hard, and they will require thought. However, if you are unwilling to put the effort required into answering them, what does that say of how highly you value your faith?
CJ
I realize it may not be kosher of me to do this on this board, but permit me, please, this opportunity to say . . .
WAY TA GO, SIEGE!
You speak with beauty, power, and eloquence, and I’m proud to know you. In all sincerity, had there been more Christians like you around twenty years ago, I never would have left the fold.
(signed)
–One of the above-mentioned ex-fundamentalists
Better to safely not question at all and just believe rather than question and end up not believing. Questioning, while not a vice, isn’t always a good thing. Believing is a virtue.
I’m definitely in the wrong place.
Since this thread is 8 pages long, could we just start a new thread to pit His4Ever?