I used the same source, and it shows that religion is NOT the cause of most mass murder.
But don’t let the facts get in the way of a fine emotional argument.
Must be the New Math and emotional. I could give a shit less. It’s just one of lifes little ironies.
Let’s say that over the last 5 millenia organized religion is responsible for only 10,000 deaths. Is that something to brag about? Religion is supposed to be about love, I thought. How loving is it to kill in God’s name?
How many deaths by organized religion are ok? 1000? 100? 1?
When one has to compare Christianity (for example) to Pol Pot in order to make Christianity look good by comparison… then I think Christianity is in big trouble.
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Would you have others preach their made-up nonsense to you? Even with a smile on their face? Even as you received free dental service? Would you have others kill you because you don’t believe in the right fairy tale?
Who here will say they want to be treated like that?
I don’t think so. I dare that crappy tinpot demon you worship to strike me down RIGHT NOW!
Hmmm…
(taps foot)
(checks watch)
I was not trying to make Christianity look good. I was simply trying to refute Read Neck’s claim that organized religion is the leading cause of mass murder.
Personally I think that the number of murders committed in the name of religion is despicable and deplorable. You are right when you say any number is too high.
Christianity is not in big trouble. It is going strong! 
Here’s to loviong each other and praying for no murder in ANY name…religion or communism or expansion or anger or jealousy or… you get me?
I Kings 18:27 “27: And at noon Eli’jah mocked them, saying, ‘Cry aloud, for he is a god; either he is musing, or he has gone aside, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.’”
Hey, His4Ever- sure did sound fun when the shoe was on the other foot, didn’t it? But it’s just a story. It’s just a power fantasy, just like your fantasies that scoffers will be beaten up by the Invisible Sky Pugilist when they die. This is reality, and the reality is that you don’t worship a God. You worship a demon. A demon of hate, a demon of vengeance, a demon of hypocrisy, a demon of lust. You worship a demon that tells you he’s Jesus, a demon that whispers in your ear that you’re not lustful, and that it’s the awful homosexuals that need to be kept in line. A demon that tells you that the government shouldn’t let people get married without your permission, but should leave you alone to sort out your own sexual indulgences all by yourself.
Your demon is powerless to strike me down as I call you to righteousness, and I can insult it all I want. What’s that? You say you don’t worship a demon? You worship God? Well, where is he? In the bathroom? Maybe I should leave a few insults with his secretary? You call it God, but somehow I’m not impressed. Sounds to me like it’s really a pathetic little demon. Somehow I don’t think it will present any problems for me when I die.
Matt 7:21-23 ""Not every one who says to me, Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ "
Who’s to say that you won’t be the one with soiled undershorts when you meet Jesus? Are you doing the will of the Father?
Mark 10:11-12 "He answered, “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her.
And if she divorces her husband and marries another man, she commits adultery.”
Matt 19:9 “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Matt 5:32 " But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."
I Cor. 7:10-11 “To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.”
Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.”
Maybe you should think twice before fantasising about how other people will feel when they meet God. You might find that Jesus isn’t very impressed by your excuses. When you tell him about how you thought he had given you carte blanche to have sex with a man who isn’t your real husband, he might just say well, lots of people come to Me saying “Lord, Lord” and talking about how I supposedly helped them cast out demons- but they’re in hell right now. When you tell him about how much you love the man you’re living with, the man you’re married to only in the eyes of Man, he might just tell you that there’s a difference between love and sex, and while there was no problem with sharing your life with him, nobody forced you share your body with him. You’re commiting adultery night after night after night, His4Ever. Is momentary pleasure worth an eternity in hell? Because your demon might say he’s Jesus- but he’s not going to be able to help you when the real thing shows up.
Then again, maybe things work a little differently. Maybe Jesus is a forgiving sort, and understands that the best of us can make mistakes. Maybe Jesus will forgive both the adulterers and the homosexuals. But will he go so far as to forgive the arrogant? The stiff-necked? The pharisaical?
You’re wrong, he specifically said these particular evanglists are actually HURTING the GOOD missionaries. Reread the OP you will see he is only speaking about a certain group of evangelists, who cause trouble, then leave and fuck up the work for the other christians there.
Oh, here go the personal attacks again. :rolleyes:
It may well appear that she’s stated that certain actions are sins, but those actions are similar to her own. Does this mean that every time His4ever says something, we need to make sure to speak out about the sins she’s committed?
IMO, His4ever is speaking out about the sinfulness of homosexuality because she believes that such actions, when not repented of, will condemn a person to eternity without God. It doesn’t appear that she’s doing it because she has some sort of grudge against homosexuals. She is saying that homosexual acts (in general) are sinful, not that specific homosexual people on the boards are sinners because they’ve committed specific homosexual acts. (It’s not like she’s saying that Doper X is such a bad sinner because he inserted his penis in another man’s anus.)
On the other hand, what reason do we have to specifically bring up His4ever’s personal marital situation besides trying to personally attack her?
If you want to disagree with her ideas, disagree with the ideas – don’t bring up her personal life. IMO, it’s really quite tacky to bring up her personal life, not to mention rather cruel.
Seems rather strange that I just agreed with something vanilla said and yet I don’t see any long diatribes listed here against her. Vanilla and I share some of the same opinions, though there’s probably much we disagree on also. You must be just biased toward me or something because all I did was affirm what she said, IIRC.
Thanks, lel. As you say, we can disagree without being nasty about it imho.
P.S. I don’t share your opinions that I’m committing continual adultery. You can’t see that, fine. Your continual bringing it up is just an attempt to justify yourself.
P.P.S How about staying on topic. Me and my personal life and relationship with Christ isn’t the subject of the OP.
Basically, His? Vanilla listens, thinks, and then replies. She used to be a lot more like you… but… well, she thought and changed.
We do care about you, His. Well, some of us do. And we want you to be less angry about things. Maybe you should have a talk with vanilla? It’s not so much what you believe that we have a problem with, it’s your actions in presenting it. Very much, in fact, akin to the Christian Missionary issue of this thread. Who represents Christ better: a humble man who spends his life helping others live better, more satisfying lives, feeding the hungry, and educating the young, or someone who keeps parading around waving signs and screaming at people?
It’s not about your relationship with Christ… it’s about your relationship with us.
Thanks for your insight, E-Sabbath. I can agree that a humble man who spends his life helping others can be a good example of Christlikeness. However, imho, which I’m trying to express nicely, they still need to be told about Jesus and what He did in dying for their sins. It can work together. Help them live better, feed the hungry, meet physical needs, etc. and also share the gospel of Christ with them. Of course, you shouldn’t go in and just start preaching at them. A relationship needs to be established, needs have to be met, etc. I don’t think missionaries should do one and leave out the other. Meet their needs in a loving manner AND share the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is Jesus loving them and dying for their sins so in trusting Him they have eternal life. This is he great commission from Jesus Himself. I realize many here don’t share the belief in this necessity but those of us who believe the Bible, can’t do otherwise if we truly care for people. I’m sure that won’t make sense to a lot of people.
So if His4Ever preaches the gospel to homosexuals, that’s good.
But if I preach the gospel to His4Ever, that’s bad.
The fact is, His4Ever, that you’re an arrogant hypocrite. You, not me, brought up your fantasies about how other people will quake with fear when they see God. Is it so inappropriate for me to point out that you’re not special, and that you might find that God likes them better than He likes you? Is that really any more of a hijack than your violent revenge fantasies are? This thread is, after all, about missionaries- not about how scary God is.
You can’t serve two masters, His4Ever. You need to choose. Will it be merciful Jesus, or vengeful Jesus?
Instead of “Most mass murder is caused by religion”, let’s use a new phrase: “Most mass murder is caused by fanatics who think they have such great ideas that they come to believe they can lord the power of life and death over thousands or millions.”
Better? It certainly is inclusive of religious nuts, but now we don’t have to leave out socialist wack-jobs.
[Bill Hicks]
[/Bill Hicks]
Nothing new to add. I just really like that quote.
For those who are extremely pissed off about H4E’s comment about the coarse jokes ceasing when one stands before God –
This is not a “violent revenge fantasy” by any means. I think every person on earth will have a RADICAL re-adjustment of their perception of God, when they meet Him, and I suspect His believes the same. How could it be otherwise?
No judgment is implied. And His said nothing of the kind. You (Ben) attributed all sorts of things to her which she didn’t say.
I’m well aware that her reputation on this board precedes her, but could any attacks maybe focus on things said in this thread, and not in the past? As lel said, dredging up the past, and especially personal details of her life, is really low. Not worthy of you, Ben – you’re usually much more fair.
That is all.
I would be awfully surprised if she were right, honestly; I’ve encountered the divine plenty of times and have a fairly good sense of what I feel I can expect of it. Something that attempted to radically re-adjust my perception would come across to me not as a god, but as a bait-and-switch.
I mean, I find the concept of following a god I haven’t met crogglesome, but apparently it works for some people, so whatever floats your boat, hey?
Christians are told that for now, we see but through a glass, darkly.
Lilairen, suppose your basic concept of God is correct. You don’t suppose you’ve got the whole picture just now, do you? It would be a small god to be completely understandable by humans.