I don’t suppose I have a complete understanding of anyone I’ve met; the preponderance of the evidence is that I don’t. I don’t make exceptions for gods.
I have the special decoder ring, members only.
It confers special rights.
Aaaaahaaaa! So that explains it! 
See, 'nilla is in THE CLIQUEtm.
His4Ever, I know you and I have probably disagreed more than we’ve agreed, but I wanted to point out something you said which was very wise:
Do you know that establishing a relationship is what you did not do when you arrived here, nor did you speak of Jesus loving people. I still remember reading “He who shows mercy is a traitor to Jesus” in a devotional you posted last Christmas and being stunned.
It is, I think, possible for someone to be full of zeal, full of faith, and full of the Holy Spirit, and still make a complete hash of things! Net result: the people they’re trying to preach to wind up thinking they’re full of it. (Sorry, I couldn’t resist.) I won’t denigrate the faith of the people rjung’s rant is directed at, but I wish they’d think about the temporal consequences of their actions as well as the spiritual ones. Winning one person to Christ while alienating 10 others doesn’t seem to be the best way to go about things. Doing things which keep food and medical supplies from getting to people who need them, or which result in your brother and sister Christians also doesn’t seem to me to be in line with what Christ taught us. “Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind” is the first and greatest commandment, according to Christ (emphasis mine, of course). Therefore, isn’t not thinking about the consequences of one’s actions, especially when acting in God’s name, a violation of that commandment? “Love your neighbor as yourself” is the second greatest commandment. Christ placed Himself at greatest peril for his fellow men, and Paul spoke of there being no greater love than that a man should lay down his life for his brothers. How does endangering others jibe with this?
I understand zeal, and faith which burns like [color = brickred]fire![/color] I’ve felt that a time or two, myself. I also realize that Judas may have been the most zealous of the disciples, and look at the fruits of his zeal. He did not live long enough to realize what the full consequences of his actions were, but, let’s face it, in a way, he was lucky. Since I’ve yet to meet the Son of Man in this, temporal world, I’d prefer not endanger someone else because of my zeal.
CJ
I can see some of your points there, Seige. I pretty much did, in my zeal, come in with guns a blazin’ without talking with and getting to know people first. I just feel sometimes, in discussing issues such as this OP, that the emphasis is always made more on just showing love and being examples and meeting needs which are all very good things. But, as missionaries, the telling of the gospel cannot be left out. People’s eternal destinies, at least in the minds of many Christians, are more important than present sufferings in this world. You have to realize that the gospel is going to alienate some people, but does that mean it shouldn’t be shared? Not everyone accepted Jesus and his disciples. They were told if any city didn’t receive them, shake the dust from their feet and move on. Jesus said if people hated and persecuted Him, they’ll do the same to those who follow Him.
Anyway, my apologies for being so zealous without getting to know folks first, chalk it up to message board ignorance. You do have a lot of good points, Seige, even though we do disagree on many things.
Well, it’s not preaching the Gospel, it’s HOW you preach it. See?
And His, I’m sure you would be upset that someone who is a missionary is using lies and deceit to gain converts, and endangering others unnecessarily?
Well, of course using lies and deceit to win people to the Lord is wrong. Unfortunately, I’ve learned from listening to people on these boards, that what one person considers a lie, someone else doesn’t. I’ll have to go back to the beginning and check the OP and see what exactly the OP thinks the missionaries are doing that’s so terrible. If this person thinks seeking the lost for Christ is wrong, well I can’t agree with that. If it’s disagreement wth how they go about it, well maybe I can agree. I think I’ll go read the original OP.
His, you continue to miss the point. It’s fine to disagree with the Mormons; I certainly don’t beleive in their mythology. But I criticize their faith because I go directly to the source, the book of Mormon, the Doctrines and Convenants, and so on.
You have never, by you own admission, eever read any publication written by the Mormons themselves. Insyead, you rely on one-sided, second-hand accounts written by people with a decided anti-LDS bias, and so you get into trouble by accepting what these sources say about Mormon beliefs and not what the Mormons themselves say.
How would you like it if I criticized Christianity but had never read the Bible for myself or consulted books written by believing Christians to see what their faith actually says? What is I only relied on anti-Christian propaganda that consistently got the facts wrong? Wouldn’t you say that I was lying about your faith?
When you talk about the Catholics or the Mormons, you get your facts wrong and accuse them of believing articles that are in fact not parts of their faiths at all.
If you want to have a go at the Catholics, why not debate the True Presence of Christ in the wafer and wine, which is actual Catholic doctrine, and leave out the nonsense about them worshipping Mary, which is not?
Debate facts, not prejudice.
You have a point. Question: what about Christian sites that quote actual statements from other religions documents and say where in the document the statement is found. Is this considered unacceptable around here? (Even thought it might be acceptable to me.) Just curious.
Hey, if you find a Christian site that disssects the Mormon scriptures and finds them incompatible with the Bible’s teachings, you just might find me as your ally.
If the Christian site you cite quotes original documents accurately and not out of context, then they are acceptable, IMO.
And its not just how they preach it, its how they act.
On another message board, I was asking for help as me and my son are destitute can’t go anywhere this summer, even no new clothes (my dad is quite stingy, except for buyign 150$ of lottery tickets every month).
So some guy responds, says he’ll help.
Then he e mails me, saying he doesn’t want to send money, cause he thinks I may be a substance abuser, then tells me I have an attitude problem.
Christians are so easily led into being judgmental and holier than thou.
It does turn people off.
Probably depends on whether or not you’re taking the statements out of context to “prove” a point. I can take quotes from the Old Testament (Judiasm), the New Testament (Christianity), or the Koran (Islam), and “prove” that each of those religions preach hatred and murder and death to non-believers – even though none of the followers of those religions would agree with my point.
His, I’m talking about these people claiming to be “Muslims for Christ”, which is just like “Jews for Jesus.” Both are built on deception.
And what gobear said-do NOT rely on Jack Chick, who is a hateful liar.
I agree that some of the methods they’re using should be reconsidered. They shouldn’t be pretending to be Muslims.
:eek:
Repent! The end of the world is at hand!
at both of you
What about Jews for Jesus?
Well, Jews for Jesus isn’t being discussed here, Ben, I simply made a comparison.
Lighten up, wouldya?
Guin, what’s your problem? I just asked what she thought of Jews for Jesus.
Sheesh, lighten up, indeed…
**
I disagree- I think that in His4Ever’s case it was, in fact, a fantasy that people who find her deity to be worthy of contempt will burn in hell for their disrespect. Note that I didn’t criticise vanilla for the same comment. My experience has been that vanilla doesn’t like the idea of hell and is constantly trying to defuse the idea of hell in a number of different ways, while His4Ever at times seems practically obsessed with her vision of a vengeful Jesus.
I don’t know- maybe I should have handled it differently. But I felt at the time that it was legitimate, and I’m not sure it wasn’t. His4Ever seems to me to be the kind of fundamentalist who is a self-righteous nag, always going on about how everybody else needs to get right with Christ, while it never occurs to her that she might have any flaws of her own. Her position on sexual sin is a prime example. SHE isn’t doing anything wrong. SHE prayed to Jesus and He says she’s doing fine- she knows it because she feels it in her heart. And the government just needs to get out of her way and let HER do what she wants. But homosexuals? THEY are doing something wrong. If THEY think Jesus has forgiven them, they’re just fooling themselves. The government needs to tell THEM that they can’t get married without His4Ever’s permission.
If His4Ever is going to throw stones, I think it’s appropriate to point out that she’s living in a glass house.
Plus, let me say that I find it frustrating to talk to His4Ever, because it’s more or less impossible for me to communicate with her by being nice. I’ve tried being nice to her since the first time I met her, and most of the time she doesn’t even respond. But if I criticise her for her hypocrisy and bigotry? Sure, I could have been more abstract, but then she would have ignored the post.