Keep in mind the scene with Tormund and Davos last week–(the best scene in a bad episode imo)
they talk about not putting their faith in “kings” but it’s all cool remember? Jon isn’t a king.
My theory was that Jon would go soft on Melisandre like confine her to quarters, etc, because- she’s a wizard, Harry, and he may need her. And this would lead Davos to lose faith in Jon. I thought at the end during the King of the North chant, when they showed Davos, he’d just get up and leave.
I’ve long theorized that Davos would take the black and go to the Wall so as to give us a more main character up there should Jon leave (if it happens, y’all better recognize!!!). Next season would then show Davos at the Wall and then eventually made Lord Commander since there’s only like a few hundred of them up there and none of the higher ranking intelligent ones are left I think.
I definitely see Sansa/Jon being a thing once his heritage is revealed. She did look happy at the start of the King of the North bit but off Littlefinger’s look she soured. Either interpretation works right now- She soured because she knows Littlefinger will turn things to his favor no matter what or she’s remembering what Littlefinger said about who really deserves to rule.
I was internally screaming for Jon to stand up and declare for Sansa to be Queen of the North. It seemed out of character for him not to do that after everything.
Also, I haven’t noticed anyone else point this out but every prominent female in this episode wore black. Sure some cases it made sense (mourning) or was in their normal color palette–but even Dany was uncharacteristically in black.
Yes, maybe just wishful thinking. At any rate, these speculations make her infinitely more interesting than watching her go back to just being passive and waiting for things to happen to her.
I still found it rather odd though that she keeps completely and utterly silent all through Jon’s “we need to trust each other” speech, and through that meeting of the Houses.
Wherever she’s going, she needs to find allies there fast. I’m not sure whether she’s actually realizing that a long winter is coming and what that means for everyone… but apart from the Greyjoy navy and her dragons, all of her army are desert people. I suppose they’re not going to do very well once that winter’s here, even if it were just cold weather without a chance of undead.
(Remember that even Stannis’ army was in trouble once that the snow started to really fall, and those were folks that should have been used to a bit of seasonal weather.)
Has it been established that the Greyjoys will contribute an actual army, or was the deal just for the fleet to get them across the sea, in return for helping the Greyjoys take back their throne?
I think you are mistaken about Varys. He is one of the few Morally consistent characters in the Story. He wants to do what’s good for the Realm and Dany is Good for the Realm (he believes).
Also, I don’t think he “teleported” or that is was a mistake. There was a time jump. He had to lock up Dorne (I suspect getting the Tyrells as well was not expected but a welcome bonus). Once they knew Dorne was one their side, they had a place to land and now the fleet is on its way.
Re: Arya
Same people seem to think she is on the lam from the Faceless men. She isn’t. She’s one of them. She “graduated”.
Re: Tyrells
I was really hoping Margaery had gotten out. I liked her. The Tyrell family is gutted. I guess some cousin or something just became even more rich than he already was.
Re: The Wall
So I wonder if Bran entering the tunnel through the Wall will kill its magic the way he killed the Magic that protected the tree?
Re: This Board
Well there was no Arya Grand Plan a few episodes ago and it looks like there was no Sansa Grand Plan last week either. Just run of the mill TV writing.
Re: Sansa
I got a sense at one point that Sansa expected Jon to shift the rulership to her the way Theon did with Yara. Maybe I was seeing something that wasn’t there though.
Hmm. It looks like you’re right. There’s only a few though, and they didn’t go to any lengths to make that clear (although they depicted the other components of the fleet in the Ironborn, the Unsullied, and the Dothraki). Dorne has never been mentioned as having significant sea power, but maybe a few ships were sent back with Varys. I don’t see any evidence of Tyrell ships, though.
I noticed that as well. Cersei always strove to surround herself with loyal lapdogs. Now, there’s only one left, so he’s filling all the roles.
When I say “sewing mischief for King’s Landing” I mean that Varys is still on Daenerys’ side. As in, he’s making alliances in support of Daenerys’ goals. That’s what I want to believe, and that’s the most likely explanation. I think we’re in agreement here.
If this has been discussed, I missed it–but is Gentle Uncle Ben some type of undead? He said something about how the dead can’t cross the wall because magic, then he said something like he can’t cross the wall…
Well, I wouldn’t say she’s going to be passive - no more than Lady Mormont is. She’ll be the representative of Winterfell and of House Stark. Probably the second most powerful person in the North after Jon, and an active player in the events to come. And of course, she has to deal with Littlefinger, who she knows better than anyone else.
She stayed silent because events transpired exactly the way she wanted them to. She can’t be Queen of the North, and she knows it. For one thing, the King/Queen needs to be a battle-hardened commander, and that’s something she’s not. She needed Jon to be King, but she still controls Winterfell and her own people, just as Lady Mormont does.
This is what would worry me. An invasion fleet equipped for warm weather wouldn’t last long in winter. But TV shows always seem to focus on strategy and tactics and ignore things like Logistics. If Dagny lands her fleet and tries to march overland during winter, the result should be more like what happened to Napoleon on his march to Moscow. He started with 422,000 men, and came home with less than a tenth that number. The vast majority weren’t lost to enemy action, but to starvation, disease, and freezing in the Russian winter.
This show has never been good at showing logistics. There’s an old saying about war - the amateurs worry about strategy and tactics, while the pros worry about logistics.
In this case, Daeneris’ army has no logistical tail to keep it supplied. So it will have to live off the land - primarily by ransacking the countryside and taking the provisions of the people. That makes it hard to win over hearts and minds, and opens up the possibility of the enemy using a scorched-earth policy to starve you out.
Well, you would think there would have to be some kind of quid-pro-quo for Daeneris to give up some of her fleet for them. They promised to pledge their fealty to her and recognize her as the rightful Queen, which means they are also promising to commit their resources to her if needed.
Yep. He’s sort of in limbo. The White Walkers stabbed him and left him to change into a Wight, but the Children of the Forest stopped the process by stabbing him with Dragonglass. That left him in a transition state that’s only mostly dead, but enough dead that he can’t go through the wall.
So how exactly did Cercei end up being crowned Queen? She was Queen Consort when married to Robert, Queen Mother of Joffrey and then of Tommen, but she has no right to to the title of Queen Regnant on her own, or am I missing something? Are the Lannisters also in line for the throne? Is there no male Lannister cousin (or sane/not-evil female cousin) to take over the throne?
(Not to mention the common people would have revolted and strung her up for the destruction of the Sept and the death of Margery, but perhaps they don’t know she’s responsible?)
She straight up told Jon she knew about the KoV, and said she should have told him about them…that falls right into the Grand Plan we talked about in last weeks episode.
this one is interesting, I think Jon is just going to end up King in the North, but we were not shown Jon actually accepting, he just stood there with his Jon face looking out over the room. There is a chance he does exactly that but I doubt it.
Dany’s fleet consists of Iron Island ships, Dornish ships, and former slavers ships. She has the support of the 2 places we know of that will continue producing food during winter.
He revealed he had been stabbed in a fight with a White Walker, but the Children saved him by putting a dragonglass knife in his heart. Since that’s the way they created the original White Walker, it’s not clear exactly what Benjen is, especially since he doesn’t have blue eyes. But he’s on the side of the Children/Three-eyed Raven.
I have seen this being mentioned a couple of times, and I wonder why he is considered a moral character?
He failed to inform the King and his Hand about Cersei’s incest at a time when a devastating conflict could have been avoided. And he did so to instigate the chaos that led to incredible suffering throughout the Kingdoms, because he is one of the traitors and conspirators who worked for a long time, even when the Seven Kingdoms were at peace and prospered, to bring back the Targaryen rule.
Varys is not as responsible as Littlefinger for the pitiful state of affairs in Westeros at a time when the Seven Kingdoms need unity more than for thousands of years - but he is a close second; and he has made it clear that he considers all this devastation necessary and acceptable to reinstate the Targaryens.
She has no legal right to the throne. Her only rights came through her husband or children. With them gone, she has no right to succession.
She basically seized the throne because she controlled the Lannister troops in the city.
The Lannisters have no right to the throne on their own. Jaime killed one of his cousins who was held prisoner with him, and there are undoubtedly more distant cousins running around, but none of them have any rights.
They hate Cersei anyway, so she may well face a revolt on top of the other threats facing her.
Varys appears to back a Targaryen restoration because he thinks Daenaerys would be a better ruler than the Baratheons/Lannisters. (Admittedly, that’s a low bar.)
Littlefinger promoted conflict purely as a means of enabling his own rise. He’s not interested in anything else.
Six seasons in, and you still think that silly things like “lineage” or “succession” or “right to the throne” matter? What matters is power. Cersei killed all of her enemies and she now has all the power, at least until another Powerful Queen comes knocking.
She said sorry, I don’t think she said she was regretting it. And I think he stated that they need to trust each other. I don’t remember her agreeing. I think she just stood silent.
Maybe it’s a Minertzhagen’s Haversack sort of scenario. It’s not that Cat would have told anyone. It’s that anyone who knew Cat would eventually question why she wasn’t furious over her beloved honorable Ned showing up from war with a bastard son.
Also there is no one left in the order of succession AFAIK. Anyone with a quasi-legitimate claim on the throne - Stanis, Renley, Joefrey, Tomlin and all the Baratheon bastards except for Gendry - are dead. Cercei as Queen Mum is the closest thing they have. And that’s close enough when you just blew up all your enemies, control the Lannister fortune and army and constantly walk around with an enormous zombie that obeys your every command. Technically Gendry is the rightful heir to the throne, but good luck trying to claim it. Although I’m sure it will come up over the next couple of seasons.
