Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 [Show discussion]

Little detail I haven’t seen mentioned yet, it looked to me like the chandelier at the citadel was the same as the “sun” in the opening credits. I would for Sam to stumble upon a pop-up Westeros map.

And having always prostitutes in his bed points at him being interested in grown up women. We never had any hint that he molested any kid.

Simply, the kids aren’t that nice. They’re street urchins who presumably have been living a harsh life. Think of street children from Bogota or somesuch enlisted and protected by a cartel or gang and told to do some dirty work.

No, Varys tried to keep peace by not stirring up shit between King Robert and his Queen, but Cersei stirred it up anyway. He then tried his best to maintain the Realm while Joffrey was on the throne. After Joffrey and Tywin died, he saw that the Lannister/Baratheon dynasty was an incompetent dead end, and so went looking for the last Targaryen.

Varys did not support Daenerys or any Targaryens until Season 5. In the first season we even see Varys counsel Robert (to Ned’s dismay) to kill Dany while she was still a weak pregnant teenager and before she could pose a real threat to Westeros.

Varys may not be a moral character in the sense that he’s what we would consider “morally upright.” But he’s a consistently moral character in the sense that he works for what he thinks is best for the Realm, and sticks with it. He doesn’t let his own desires or whims get in the way of his goal, and he’s trying to do the most good for the most people (which differentiates him from Littlefinger’s all-consuming self-interest). At least as far as we can tell. I don’t think Varys’ goal is to reinstate the Targaryens, but to instate Daenerys Targaryen specifically, because she has the potential to take and hold the Iron Throne and be a just ruler.

I don’t recall Varys being aware of Cersei and Jaime before Ned was, but it’s been a while since I watched Season One. Also, there’s a strong argument that the Seven Kingdoms were not prospering under King Robert. Maybe peaceful, but not prosperous. Sure, the War of the Five Kings certainly made things much worse, but Robert was running things into the ground anyway.

Morally consistent, which is not the same as Moral. He seems to always have the good of the realm in mind (as he sees it) but he would certainly let others die if that is what is necessary.

I think it’s a step worse than that. Not only did the obvious thing happen most of the time, but the obvious thing happened in a way that required characters to do really stupid things. So the writers decide that Ramsay should betray and murder Roose. Fine, a reasonable and in-character thing for Ramsay to do. But it should require at least the slightest tiny bit of cleverness. Same for the sand snakes assassinating Doran. Why was the slaver navy so unprepared for dragons? Why did the Tully forces surrender immediately? Why didn’t Rickon try to dodge left or right at all? And of course we’ve argued about Arya to death.
The number of times this season that we were arguing in the episode thread about what happened, not because there was a twist yet to be revealed, but because what we saw was confusing and incomplete, was way way higher than any previous season.

So you think he doesn’t think she be useful against the Night King? I suppose that’s possible… but again, not at all made clear.

Actually, the “chandelier” was a cool detail. It looks like it’s a system of mirrors to light the library with sunlight instead of relying on candles. I don’t think it matches the sun in the opening credits, though.

The thing is, I don’t see how Sansa could control anyone or anything now, especially with all the people obviously loyal to Jon specifically. Most of the heads of the Houses don’t really seem to even care about her being there or not, and the recent past has shown that she had zero influence on any of them when trying to negotiate.

To me it seems like right now she has no power at all, and I don’t know how that could chance, unless she directly influences and/or manipulates Jon.

In Season 1, Varys is shown plotting with Illyrio Mopatis from Pentos, the protector of Viserys and Dany, to restore the Targaryens. He tells Illyrio that a civil war is brewing between the Starks and the Lannisters, so that plans for an invasion by the Dothraki should be moved up.

I believe that Robert proposes to assassinate Dany, and while Varys appears to go along with it he only takes action once he is directly ordered to do so once it is found out she is pregnant.

It seems that Varys preferred a Targaryen restoration even when it was the horrible Viserys who was in line. But maybe he thought that was preferable to the Baratheons and Lannisters.

I am not a spelling Nazi but I had to point out that Lily sure would fit into the Girl Power theme of this season.

Ernestine would certainly put everyone in their place!

I’m not a meme maker. In fact, this is only my second one but I like it and think it’s appropriate.

There are some ships with green sails in the wide shot, so I assume those are from Highgarden.

I’m glad someone brought up logistics because right now Dany looks unstoppable.

She has how many thousands of troops at her disposal? The North can barely get a few thousand up and going so what can they do against that?

Her horse riders as basically barbarians who will ransack Westeros and bring misery wherever they go and she has her flying death machines.

It just seems a bit overwhelming.

I predict that Tyrion murders Dany with the Queen’s Hand pin she gave him :slight_smile:

Also, it’s a lineage that really shouldn’t be anywhere near power. I’m cheering for the white walkers.

Is Master of Whispers an official position?

What, no Brienne?:dubious:

There’s also the Waif, Osha, Meera Reed, and Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes. Olenna’s pretty badass too in her own way.

So, can Bran just hole up in Winterfell and access his powers through that tree? Is that how it works?

Yes. It’s like the head of the CIA.

The Master of Whisperers is the head of intelligence and espionage for the Iron Throne. Varys was the previous one.

I only have so much room on my hard drive.
ETA: OMG. King’s Landing! I finally get the joke. Hahaha-- wait, that’s not funny. That’s sad. snort

I couldn’t make them out. Most of the sails look pretty dark.

Although we didn’t see it, I would guess the Ironborn ships have the kraken sigil on their sails.

I noticed that while Dany’s ship and that of the Unsullied have dragon figureheads, several ships have horse figureheads, which I guess are occupied by the Dothraki. A lot of them just have plain bows, though.