Game of Thrones 6.10 "The Winds of Winter" 6/26/16 [Show discussion]

[Telperion]

@Colibri

I couldn’t make them out. Most of the sails look pretty dark.

Although we didn’t see it, I would guess the Ironborn ships have the kraken sigil on their sails.

I noticed that while Dany’s ship and that of the Unsullied have dragon figureheads, several ships have horse figureheads, which I guess are occupied by the Dothraki. A lot of them just have plain bows, though.

Yeah, that could have been clearer. Luckily, with this being the internet, I didn’t have to look very hard to find someone who had noticed the same thing. http://www.joe.co.uk/entertainment/game-of-thrones-finale-easter-eggs/69557

[AlsoNamedBort]

@Colibri

Actually, the “chandelier” was a cool detail. It looks like it’s a system of mirrors to light the library with sunlight instead of relying on candles. I don’t think it matches the sun in the opening credits, though.

@Telperion

Yeah, that could have been clearer. Luckily, with this being the internet, I didn’t have to look very hard to find someone who had noticed the same thing. http://www.joe.co.uk/entertainment/game-of-thrones-finale-easter-eggs/69557

In that link, it shows a screenshot. One of the other chandeliers matches the one in the opening credits:
http://m0.joe.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/27160948/rZip8Fg.jpg

[Loach]

I hate that if I wait a day to watch it I can barely join in because the thread is too long.

I’m sure thousands have thought of this but it just hit me. The Song of Ice and Fire. Stark and Targaryan. The title all along was about Jon Snow. It’s his song/story. Maybe.

@CurrlyD

We now know for sure that R + L = J, but is there anyone in the GoT world who shares that knowledge? Ned’s dead. What about the 2 midwives? Anyone else? If there’s no one alive who knows, then how does this change anything?

I expected Ned to show his grey streak and kill the midwives. He is a moral person but a man of his environment.

@Sandwood

Yes, maybe just wishful thinking. At any rate, these speculations make her infinitely more interesting than watching her go back to just being passive and waiting for things to happen to her.

I still found it rather odd though that she keeps completely and utterly silent all through Jon’s “we need to trust each other” speech, and through that meeting of the Houses.

Wherever she’s going, she needs to find allies there fast. I’m not sure whether she’s actually realizing that a long winter is coming and what that means for everyone… but apart from the Greyjoy navy and her dragons, all of her army are desert people. I suppose they’re not going to do very well once that winter’s here, even if it were just cold weather without a chance of undead.

(Remember that even Stannis’ army was in trouble once that the snow started to really fall, and those were folks that should have been used to a bit of seasonal weather.)

Stannis and his men were from the south and if I remember correctly it hadn’t been winter for a long time. They were not used to winter weather either.

@Lochdale

I’m glad someone brought up logistics because right now Dany looks unstoppable.

She has how many thousands of troops at her disposal? The North can barely get a few thousand up and going so what can they do against that?

Her horse riders as basically barbarians who will ransack Westeros and bring misery wherever they go and she has her flying death machines.

It just seems a bit overwhelming.

I predict that Tyrion murders Dany with the Queen’s Hand pin she gave him

Also, it’s a lineage that really shouldn’t be anywhere near power. I’m cheering for the white walkers.

Just the dragons should be enough to turn any battle in her favor. I expect logistically the weather may be shown to knock her army down a peg or two. Also the fact that her army consists of undisciplined cavalry. A combined arms mindset may be effective. Or at least written that way.

The armies and houses must be completely depleted at this point but everyone seems to be able to field an army at anytime.

I love Lady Mormont. I wonder how they will kill her?

Good to see that Captain Darling joined the Starks.

[Yllaria]

@iiandyiiii

I guess now we know why it’s called King’s Landing.

Ba-dum cha!

Ouch. Ouch-ouch.

@SenorBeef

The wildfire was still there from the time of the Mad King. He put hidden caches all around the city, and it would seem no one has been looking for them all these years, so they’re still around.

I bet everyone’s poking around in their basements now.

[Colibri]

@AlsoNamedBort

In that link, it shows a screenshot. One of the other chandeliers matches the one in the opening credits:
http://m0.joe.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/27160948/rZip8Fg.jpg

Okay, the other one on the right side makes it clearer.

Does this mean the mechanical map we see in the opening credits is in the Citadel?

[Mr.Kobayashi]

@Colibri

Here’s the scene. I don’t see any sigil on the sails aside from the red Targaryen three-headed dragon. At a distance it can look like a round symbol like that of the Martells or Tyrells.

On the right of the screen, though admittedly could be a sun and spear of House Martell. Definitely not the Targaryen sigil. More than one, again on the right of the screen.

[Tangent]

@MrDibble

Yeah, but he’s backslid horribly, as his conversation with/threat to Edmure Tully shows. Killing newborn babies - that’s on the Mountain/Ramsay side of evil. Who gives a shit whether it’s because he does it for love of Cersei rather than pure fun. It’s still evil. You could argue that it was just a threat and he wouldn’t go through with it - I think the way he disdained the idle threats the Frey boys were making just before that scene shows that he would have followed through. So no, he might have had a redemptive arc with Brienne, but it’s aborted now. His only hope of real redemption is taking out his sister, and likely as a murder-suicide.

-bolding mine-

I’ll predict that Jaime stands by Cersei to the end, and Brienne ends up killing him. #inbeforeShakester

[Mr.Kobayashi]

@Mr.Kobayashi

On the right of the screen, though admittedly could be a sun and spear of House Martell. Definitely not the Targaryen sigil. More than one, again on the right of the screen.

QTA; bigger picture of the fleet, definitely the Tyrell rose on the green sails at the back. So Dorne and the Reach sent ships, last time we saw Varys was in Dorne, so no teleportation required.

Incidentally wouldn’t dragons fly much faster than ships could sail? I have this vision of the three of them awkwardly circling around for days then getting bored and leaving, Drogon giving Dany a look of “Eh, we’ll meet you there”.

[Fear_Itself]

Who will be the first person we know by name that will be incinerated by a dragon?

[Tangent]

Euron?

[Declan]

So, just for completeness sake, what do we figure is going to happen to Edmure. Frey had him locked in a cell, unable to kill him as he was family.

[Deeg]

So right now Dany’s invasion force looks nigh unstoppable by anyone south of the wall. Something has to happen, right, to drum up drama? (Let’s hope it’s not a re-enactment of the scrubbing bubbles Army of the Dead from LotR.) Even if Dany loses some of her army to the cold the dragons have to trump all. Some possibilities:

1. Arya ends up killing Dany. This assumes that Arya’s arc is more than just revenge.

2. The Night King shows up with an army that is truly massive; it’s made up of everybody who’s ever died north of the wall and he picks up wights from all the dead armies as he travels south. Even so the Night King has to have some sort of weapon to use against the dragons; otherwise even a massive army is melted popsicles.

3. The fleet meets Euron’s fleet coming the other way and the ensuing battle sinks a lot of Dany’s ships. Maybe the dragons are missing at the start of the battle (off to feed?)

I guess it’s a testament to the overall plot structure that I have no idea how it’s going to end.

@Telperion

Yeah, that could have been clearer. Luckily, with this being the internet, I didn’t have to look very hard to find someone who had noticed the same thing. http://www.joe.co.uk/entertainment/game-of-thrones-finale-easter-eggs/69557

That link is a lot of fun, thanks! Some people have way more observational powers than I do.

[Sir_Prize]

@wintertime

And they can’t have children, so it would be first and foremost a political union. If they decided to let Jon produce an heir with someone else, Dany would have at least taken every step to ensure that the Targaryen line survives.

Can a walking corpse like John have children?

Also for some reason I think that Dany may believe that she will be able to have children if certain events come to pass. However, I don’t remember what scene it was.

[Acsenray]

Jon isn’t a walking corpse, not like Benjen or Clegane or the wights. He was brought back to life. He can be killed again.

[edwards_beard]

@Colibri

Okay, the other one on the right side makes it clearer.

Does this mean the mechanical map we see in the opening credits is in the Citadel?

This little article points this out, as well as the pulley system they are on, and the lens (similar to the lens the welcome desk clerk is wearing)

http://hellogiggles.com/old-town-library-game-of-thrones-credits/

[oft_wears_hats]

@Loach

I hate that if I wait a day to watch it I can barely join in because the thread is too long.

I’m sure thousands have thought of this but it just hit me. The Song of Ice and Fire. Stark and Targaryan. The title all along was about Jon Snow. It’s his song/story. Maybe.

I expected Ned to show his grey streak and kill the midwives. He is a moral person but a man of his environment.

Stannis and his men were from the south and if I remember correctly it hadn’t been winter for a long time. They were not used to winter weather either.

Just the dragons should be enough to turn any battle in her favor. I expect logistically the weather may be shown to knock her army down a peg or two. Also the fact that her army consists of undisciplined cavalry. A combined arms mindset may be effective. Or at least written that way.

The armies and houses must be completely depleted at this point but everyone seems to be able to field an army at anytime.

I love Lady Mormont. I wonder how they will kill her?

Good to see that Captain Darling joined the Starks.

That raises a good point. How are the Dothraki going to fare in wintery Westoros? Aren’t they used to, and dressed for, a desert climate? Where is Daenerys going to get several thousand fur coats on short notice?

@Sir_Prize

Can a walking corpse like John have children?

Also for some reason I think that Dany may believe that she will be able to have children if certain events come to pass. However, I don’t remember what scene it was.

The witch who cursed her said “When the sun rises in the west, sets in the east when the seas go dry. When the mountains blow in the wind like leaves”. In other words, probably never. Though maybe that was only about when Khal Drogo was going to recover.

[alphaboi867]

@Biggirl

Unlime the Boltons, the Freys haven’t been eradicated. Were those two in the pie the only boys? He still bas a bunch of girls even if they were…

Walder Frey had dozens of children of both sexes; they’re not going to want for a male heir.

@Rigamarole

He’s still a bastard, so he’s still Jon Snow. Just happens to have both Targaryen and Stark blood in him. Hail the King in the North!..

Jon might not be a bastard after all. If Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly (as has been implied) instead of being kidnapped it not unlikely they married, especially once she became pregnant.

@Dewey_Finn

I’m wondering if Dany will take after Elizabeth I, and remain unmarried.

I’m foreseeing a Willam and Mary situation, only with the sexes reversed.

@SenorBeef

…I actually thought Qyburn probably asked for that one. Despite his “I mean you no ill will, forgive me” bullshit, he was probably digging the old Pycelle stabaroo.

I imagine Qyburn telling Cersei why Pycelle needs to killed and her saying “Yeah, sure whatever” while only half listening to him.

@oft_wears_hats

…Two Lannisters are incestuous. The Targaryens made a family tradition out of it.

Yep, and it was all right out there in all they back to Aegon the Conqueror marrying both of this sisters and making them his queens.

@oft_wears_hats

…I think you’re mostly right about Tommen’s mindset. But I think his despair came more from Margaery’s death and the revelation that his own mother could do that to him. The Mountain appearing to prevent Tommen from going to the trial was a dead giveaway that Cersei was the one who bombed the Sept. All that death and loss and grief coupled with the revelation of his mother’s monstrous nature was too much for him to take.

Yeah, Cersei having his passage blocked is a clear indication she was trying to protect him. As for Tommen he was both genuinely in love with Margaery and a genuine believer in the Faith of the Seven. Mountainstein’s presence made it crystal clear his mother was responsible. On top of everything else his own mother was even worse than the worst rumours about her.

@JSexton

1. In-story, I think the kid’s role was to wait until everyone was in the Sept, and then go light the candles. Lancel just happened to follow him down there, so he needed to be shanked. Out-of-story, the audience needed a POV to what was happening in the tunnel…

Agreed.

@Declan

Sorry, but I see her aligning with Jon as a possible marriage, Jon’s kiss on her forehead was just this side of an intimate kiss…

There’s no way in hell either of them are going to consider the other as a possible spouse. They were raised as brother and sister, even the revelation that they’re only first cousins isn’t going to make it any less squick worthy to them.

@Colibri

…Yeah, I loved it. She’s gone full Maleficent…

They actually made her coronation scene look like she was being crowned queen in Hell.

@Sam_Stone

…It sure looked like he was getting ready to rape her. I see no reason why he couldn’t still do that - every other part of him seems to work just fine. I suspect she was given to him as a reward - a plaything. He’ll repeatedly rape and torture her until Cersei is bored with the whole thing, then she’ll have her killed. Slowly…

Even if he doesn’t have a functioning penis it’s not like he really needs one to sodomize her. Frankly I was surprised she even still had her habit on when we saw her.

@Acsenray

Because there was no one there to stop her.

Right, and all she seems to control is the city where the Iron Throne is physically located. As for her crown, I’m sure she already had one from being queen-consort. Though one imagines if she’d use the king’s crown if the was being crowned queen-regnant (essentially a female king), and they made a point of showing Tommen taking his crown off before he jumped to his death (he could’ve just thrown it out the window).

[Rigamarole]

@Acsenray

She did suggest to Daario that she might not marry, didn’t she?

When he asked who she was going to marry, she said “I don’t know, maybe no one”. I immediately thought of Arya.

@SenorBeef

I’m a little confused as to why they obscured the audio of what Lyanna whispered to Ned. We have all the pieces we need to put together that he’s Rhaegar’s kid, are they still trying to keep it a secret? We even hear “if Robert finds out he’ll kill him”, but the first couple of things she says to him aren’t heard by Bran or the audience. Are they trying to hide something?

She also audibly says “His name is…” and that’s where it cuts out, but her mouth movements go beyond what it would take to just say “Jon”. I might go back and see if anything past that is lip-readable.

@snoe

I think that the confrontation between Davos and Melisandre was really interesting. Mel’s crisis of faith over the past season+ has been one of my favorite subplots. To me, Jon’s half-assed sentence of exile came off as him buying her sincerity mixed with empathy that stems from the hard decisions he’s had to make in the past. I think he recognizes a kindred spirit in her. Curious where her story’s going to lead.

I was disappointed that he sent her away. When somebody brings you back from the dead and pledges their undying loyalty to you, that’s normally someone you want to keep around. Plus she’s hot.

@alphaboi867

Jon might not be a bastard after all. If Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly (as has been implied) instead of being kidnapped it not unlikely they married, especially once she became pregnant.

I don’t see how he could make that legitimate, since he was already married to Elia Martell.

[Tangent]

@oft_wears_hats

Where is Daenerys going to get several thousand fur coats on short notice?

Maybe from the backs of her enemies?

[oft_wears_hats]

@Tangent

Maybe from the backs of her enemies?

That only works if she can find enough people to kill and rob before it gets dangerously cold. Anyway, Varys and Tyrion are with her, they know Westoros, and they’re probably aware that winter has arrived. I’m sure they have a plan.