I loved it as well. There were a lot of great outfits in this episode. My wife is out of town and hasn’t seen the episode yet, but she always loves to ogle the costumes. She’s definitely going to have a lot to say about the ones in this episode.
Also, Cersei’s outfit was kind of masculine, which I think is significant. She had always lamented that she was forced to do “feminine” things like curtsy and produce heirs and be used as a political bargaining piece. Now that she’s eliminated most of her enemies, and lost the last of her children, she can finally act the way she’s wanted to.
And so ends the noble house of Baratheon (at least officially, we know it was ended some time ago). At this stage the timeline makes no sense at all, this episode must have taken place over a couple of months, yet it’s all one day in Kings landing. Well we know that summer and winter are different lengths on Westeros than our world, maybe time travels at different speeds in different parts of Westeros as well?
John Snow and Dany getting married and teaming up to defeat the white walkers is entirely too predictable now, so please let that not be the series end. And yeah Lady Mormont ending up on the iron throne after killing Dany when she turns evil, that would be a damn good ending!
Yeah, but he’s backslid horribly, as his conversation with/threat to Edmure Tully shows. Killing newborn babies - that’s on the Mountain/Ramsay side of evil. Who gives a shit whether it’s because he does it for love of Cersei rather than pure fun. It’s still evil. You could argue that it was just a threat and he wouldn’t go through with it - I think the way he disdained the idle threats the Frey boys were making just before that scene shows that he would have followed through. So no, he might have had a redemptive arc with Brienne, but it’s aborted now. His only hope of real redemption is taking out his sister, and likely as a murder-suicide.
In last episode’s thread, I said Littlefinger’s plan didn’t make much sense and this episode has made that clear. Sansa/Jon are by no means allies and anyways Jon is focused on the Night King. The chances of the North riding south again should be effectively zero. It’s hard to see what Littlefinger gained here.
I’m surprised no one mentioned the obvious fanservice they added, when Olenna tells all of the three Sand Snakes in sequence to shut the hell up. I kinda felt bad for the actresses - they know how everyone on the internet thinks they’re the worst thing that ever happened to the show, and their only purpose in one of the two episodes they appeared in this season was to be told to STFU to amuse the audience. It was totally in character, though, so it’s it wasn’t obnoxious fanservice or anything.
And we should all feel for the true victom of tonight’s episode: the poor unpaid prostitute of Pycelle’s. He tells her that he’ll pay her later, and then gets murdered. Worst freebie ever.
I’m not a mod, so I can’t do anything specific, but please be mindful again of the book stuff. It’s probably already too late but there’s stuff in the thread already that purely comes from the book. People were saying “oh the show is past the books now, who cares” at the start of this season, but there was a whole lot of stuff that happened this season that came right out of the books, and there’s still more to come. Even the backstory stuff can come to form major plot points.
I’m a little confused as to why they obscured the audio of what Lyanna whispered to Ned. We have all the pieces we need to put together that he’s Rhaegar’s kid, are they still trying to keep it a secret? We even hear “if Robert finds out he’ll kill him”, but the first couple of things she says to him aren’t heard by Bran or the audience. Are they trying to hide something?
I was hoping Lyanna had made Ned promise her something very specific, like “promise me you’ll tell no one, no matter what” so that it would explain why Ned felt that he couldn’t tell Cat even after years of marriage. Being stubbornly honor bound to the exact terms of the promise would explain that, but just “protect him” wouldn’t - you’d think he’d tell her at some point so she could stop being an awful human being throwing hate daggers at Jon all his life.
The King in the North stuff was unexpected. I’ve been talking about how I’ve wanted the northerners to be secretly loyal to the Starks all season, but I’m not sure if I’m supposed to feel like we finally had that moment, or if they were all just self-serving and seeing which way things seemed to be turning out and trying to find themselves on the right side of it. Mormont obviously was true, but everyone else could’ve just been sucking up after sitting out the battle and seeing who came out ahead. It definitely robbed the scene of feeling genuine I think.
We know that Jon died, so fulfilled his oath; but it doesn’t appear to be information that has been shared around all the Northern lords. From their perspective Jon is an oathbreaker and Northern honour should dictate he be executed, right?
I think Sansa was quite happy when the King of the North cheer went up. She became guarded when she eyed Petyr loking downright sinister. She knows he can’t be trusted and he had just finished telling her he plans to rule the Iron Throne with her at his side. She may not know what lengths he went to to get Cat by his side but she sure knows how he got to command the Tully army.
Eh, there’s a decent enough fanwank for that. Either Catlyn was so overtly hostile to Jon, that Ned may have thought that telling her anything to change her behavior might look suspicious. Alternatively, Catlyn may have been careful enough with her abuse that Ned never noticed. Regardless, Ned may simply have not been willing to risk it.
Cersei didn’t want Tommen to commit suicide, but she wasn’t really thinking of Tommen, she was just thinking of revenge. And she’s thinking from her own perspective, where she knows she’ll be happy once the Sparrows are gone, if she thought about Tommen she’d probably realize that he would be upset but wouldn’t expect his despair.
I don’t know where she got the crown, but Margaery did have her own queen’s crown she was wearing, so it’s not like Cersei’s would have been the first one made.
Didn’t Pycelle wrong Cersei in some way in an earlier season? He didn’t have to be eliminated because of strategy, but Cersei was eliminating her enemies. The nun didn’t have to be kidnapped and tortured either.
I had thought that it was Sansa being strategic, that she had learned from Littlefinger about being the power behind the power instead of being on the throne. She had already told Jon that he should have the Lord’s room or whatever, and that he should be in charge. Also she might have been thinking that she is less useful to Littlefinger than if she was Queen of the North, but maybe looking at him made her second guess what Littlefinger’s plans are, or feeling guilty on what she’s become as a manipulator.
She definitely wasn’t careful - there’s a scene in season 1 where Ned comes in as Jon is trying to say goodbye to Bran, who may die, who he may never see again, and Cat is horrible to him. Ned just shuts up and lets it go. He didn’t do a great job of protecting him from her.
Rather than have to fanwank it, it would’ve been way easier if the writers just put in a “tell no one, promise me” line, and then we’d all say “oh of course Ned was honor bound to follow the exact terms of his promise no matter what, that’s how he is”
I actually thought Qyburn probably asked for that one. Despite his “I mean you no ill will, forgive me” bullshit, he was probably digging the old Pycelle stabaroo.
Fair enough. I remembered that scene but forgot that Ned was in the room with them.
Well, there’s a couple of reasons. Most importantly, Pycell had thrown in with Kevan and Cersei probably wanted a Grand Maester and Small Council that were unquestionably loyal to her. Also, as you said, Qyburn probably also enjoyed it because of all the abuse Pycell had hurled his way since he arrived in King’s Landing. But I don’t think the assassination would have happened if Cersei hadn’t wanted to replace Pycell with Qyburn.
Favorite parts of tonight’s episode:
The High Sparrow has a “come to Jesus” moment.
I now pronounce you giant zombified monstrosity and wife.
Tomlin…out!
“You not get the memo from Castle Black?”
Arya goes Scott Tenorman on Walder Fray
“Hello, my name is Arya Stark…you killed my family…prepare to die!”
"Olenna brings enough “bitch shut-it!” for everyone.
“That’s a pretty picture…now go jerk off to it loser.”
“One does not simply march into the Tower of Joy and hand Ned Stark a baby”
“Here’s why I’m 10 years old and y’all bitches!”
"He’s my King from this day until his last day…and his next last day!
In all fairness, Jaime didn’t actually murder any babies and the whole point of threatening Edmund was to end the siege of Riverrun without killing thousands of people. Plus a threat to Edmund in the privacy of his cell is a bit different from failing to carry out a threat publicly of both armies.
I don’t think you need to fanwank Ned not telling Cat. It’s infinitely easier to keep a secret if you’re the only person that knows. And it’s not like if the secret get out it’s just going to be some hurt feelings. Robert will try to murder a member of his family. It might very well mean war. Better have your nephew bear some scorn rather than be killed.
He can control what he says, but he can’t control what Catelyn says. To him it’s worth it to reduce that risk.
At the latest from Myrcella’s murder, she was convinced that the prophecy was coming true, so Tommen’s death was an inevitability in her mind. And I think her reaction reflected that mindset when she was looking at his corpse.
Pycelle had helped her in the trial against Tyrion. But we have seen him whisper into Tommen’s ear about the necessity of a union between monarchy and the church, which put him in Cersei’s eye in league with the Sparrow and turned him into a traitorous enemy.
He also knew too much about Cersei’s past to be a comfortable unknown after her ascension.
Quiburn’s motivation might prove to be much more interesting: “Sometimes, before we can usher in the new, the old must be put to rest.” Did he really mean the obvious, or is he an agent of someone else entirely?
The show left every lane open to adapt her character to the needs of the story. But I agree that we have seen a more plotting side of her lately. In any case, it’s a beneficial move for her to let the houses rally around Jon. He is going to focus on the war against the Night King, while she can put in motion political schemes that go beyond that limited goal, in scope as well as in time. And that comfortably behind the scene - she has watched Littlefinger for quite a while, after all.
I’m only disappointed that we have not seen Littlefinger react toward the revelation about the enemy in the North.
Of course the prophest says the little brother not your little brother. The Hound is also a little brother. I’m betting he finishes her after finally vanquising the Mountain. That’s pretty much all she’s got left so if the encounter between the brothers still is going to go down, this would be the logical outcome.
