Handy said:
That should come as no surprise. Being able to do sign language is a clear indicator of nimble fingers… 
Live a Lush Life
Da Chef
I have personal morals against the whole casual sex phenomenon. For some reason, I just don’t like the idea.
Which partially explains my absolute total non-success with women, probably.
But we nice guys, who have such principles, are ignored by women. And before anybody denies it, I’m living proof. We just aren’t interesting enough to be targeted for any reason.
You have to have an edge, and that edge is usually a negative element.
Sometimes I think women sentence themselves to the rough time they get.
-PIGEONMAN-
Hero For A New Millennium!
The Legend Of PigeonMan - updates every Wed & Sat
All right, here’s my spin on dating:
The longest, most successful relationship (meaning, I got jerked around the least) that I’ve ever had involved me being a major-league jerk. Used her for sex, treated her poorly, ditched her for a week or so whenever she tried to get me to commit.
Ordinarily, I’m a nice guy, and therefore women either ignore me or use me as a sounding board to bitch about their dates (I swear, if one more woman I’m interested in wants to ‘just be friends’…). So, I tried dating from the ‘jerk’ side of the fence, and it worked. I didn’t particularly like myself after that; now I’m back to ‘nice guy’. Result: I couldn’t get laid in a women’s prison with a fistful of pardons.
So, tell me, where’s the incentive to be a nice guy?
Argh. Sorry. Got off on a tangent there that should be a topic of its own. Just ignore me and my bitterness.
To summarize: Guano, I hear ya, brother.
neuro-trash grrrl – damn, too bad you don’t live closer! I’m sure there is nothing wrong with you. You just aren’t getting around enough folks. I would suggest joining the gay/lesbian alliance in your state. You will meet a LOT of women there. Let me know how it goes!
Best!
Byz
Max:
Despite what some people here might think, i think I’m a nice guy. And after years of no-lay geekdom, when I left my wife, I went through a period where I was getting laid left and right. And this was WITHOUT lying to any of them or doing anything which would qualify as being not nice.
Yer pal,
Satan
There’s always an element of luck involved. Obviously there are a ton of nice guys who get the girl some of the time.
But generally, I think it’s safe to say most women go for the slightly rougher, or dangerous type. And it comes back and bites them on the butt.
Thus I tell thee, women of the world. Nice guys may finish last, but that just means they last longer.
-PIGEONMAN-
Hero For A New Millennium!
The Legend Of PigeonMan - updates every Wed & Sat
MaxT, had a very similar experience to yours. Being a jerk somehow seems to equate to getting the dames. I think I’m a nice guy, and it does seem to inhibit dating. Not certain why.
Guano, I’m in the same boat
rubes complains:
Perfectly obvious. If one is acting “nice” (and I respectfully decline to pretend that I can look into the human heart and discern whether it’s just an act or not), one presumably has other handles sticking out to be manipulated by than a quick roll in the hay.
It has been said, with no more cynicism than is appropriate to the matter, than men use love to get sex, and women use sex to get love.
As for the general topic: I believe that the frequency of orgasms in company should probably not be one of the top five motivations in anyone’s life.
I am a 26 year old female, average looking, live in NYC. I can say to myself “I want to hook up with someone tonight” and it will happen. I put forth little or no effort - I go to the right places and once I smoke him on the pool table or dance floor, he’s mine. I don’t recall ever saying, “you wanna get it on?” - I think it all happens in a more flirting and teasing manner, then gradually builds up to the smooching etc. I usually let him think he’s seducing me, when actually, for the most part, I’m in control.
The problem is that most of the people I meet this way are boneheads and I never want to see them again. Then when I meet someone worth effort and genuine affection, there’s always some sort of problem or issue. So sad.
A common mistake that guys make is that nice guys don’t get the women because we are attracted to jerks.
With the exception of one female, I know of no one who wouldn’t take a nice guy over a jerk. In fact, every one of my girlfriends as well as myself will, and have, told jerks to hit the roads.
The problem is, is that there is a difference between nice and boring, between being a jerk and being exciting. So called “nice guys who can’t get women” should look a little closer towards themselves to understand what the problem is instead of blaming women for their lack of dates.
I won’t begin to explain why certain women stay with men who are assholes other than we all know that it happens. That’s an entirely different thread. However, I do know why some “nice guys who can’t get women”, don’t.
Could it be that women don’t perceive you as being interested? If so, why should we waste our time with you if we don’t think you like us?
Do you always wait for the women to make the first move? It’s one thing to grope us the first date, but if you don’t eventually make a move towards us sexually, we think you don’t find us attractive. We may not be ready to jump in the sack with you, but at least we know you don’t find the idea repulsing. Believe it or not, most of us can tell the difference between a guy who wants nothing but a lay compared to a guy who wants to take the relationship further because they like us. Initiating sex doesn’t make you a jerk, exciting sex doesn’t either.
Are you unable to make any decisions for yourself? I think it is nice when a man asks me where I want to eat or what movie I would like to see, but TAKE CONTROL EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE! We get tired of having to make all decisions. Once in a while, take us to a restaurant YOU like, to a movie YOU want to see, hell, we may like them too.
Don’t let us walk on you. There is nothing more unattractive in man than someone who can’t stand up for his own beliefs or won’t hold his own in an argument. Although I admit that it is nice, to a point, you kiss my ass too much and I’ll eventually show you the door. A man who sticks up for himself doesn’t make him a jerk.
Are you SO nice that it makes us feel uncomfortable? Let down your hair once in a while and kick back. The door holding, the “please” and “thank you’s”, the pulled out chairs, are all nice, but let’s just relax sometimes. Don’t be on your best behavior ALL THE TIME, because we don’t want to be on our best behavior ALL THE TIME. It’s may be hard for you to understand, but I will feel closer to you if you feel comfortable enough around me to belch (a little goes a long way here, so don’t over-do it guys), or to say to me “Good hell woman, your feet stink.” I won’t think you’re a jerk, promise.
>^,^<
KITTEN
Please tell your pants it’s not polite to point.
The guys who seem to get laid with the most women are those who lie lie lie & tell the woman everything she wants to hear & have nothing to back it up. if they stay with her or ask to marry her real soon, its because they don’t want anyone else to have her. Then they usually become abusers later.
BELCH.
Excuse me.
Did that get me anywhere?
Damn, Funnee, your feet smell too. Erm, did I get that right?
Diane has some darn good advice in there.
My problem has always been that the times when I do make a move to say I like a girl, I have been summarily rejected. Every time. So I try to at least gauge to see if they’re interested in me first. And guess what? From what I can tell, they’re not.
I’d like to think I’m not only non-boring, but actually kind of fun and funny. People seem to like me fine. I’m just one of those anomalies that seems to get passed over. Repeatedly.
But I’m not complaining or whining, just puzzled by it really.
-PIGEONMAN-
Hero For A New Millennium!
The Legend Of PigeonMan - updates every Wed & Sat
Two thoughts on this topic:
1). Think of all the horney guys out there – of course a girls can get lucky if she wants to…as long as she isn’t selective.
2). Guys think of this…if a girl goes home with you from a bar when she just met you, doesn’t it make you wonder how many other guys she has done the same thing with? Do you care?
This oneis for you handy – the guys who get laid because they are lying are only getting laid by women who wnat to believe what they are hearing.
I don’t know about all this. There seems to be the implication behind this line of reasoning that men like sex better than women. I don’t buy that. I’ve been with 33 guys, & only 2 of them could keep up with my appetite. Maybe I’m some kind of mutant, but I too hope that I’ll get lucky every night…
shelliem said “think of all the horney [sic] guys out there”…well, what about all the horny girls? I think girls who don’t want it as much as guys have been conditioned by a society that represses female sexuality, but that’s just my opinion.
Bumped because it is relevant to subjects currently under discussion in other threads.
Links?