Getting?..getting?..shit I got that eons ago! 
I’m just a mildy rational person about other things. 
(well sometimes)
Actually, I rescind this statement; in my coffee fog I completely missed the last two pages of this thread.
Feel free to call me a :wally
When I was 19 I walked by a table full of older women who must have been out on the town. One of them pinched my ass and when I turned around I was to embarassed, shocked, and flustered to really offer any kind of witty retort. I never felt endangered nor did I feel particularly violated and I think I’d have the same reaction today if I walked by a table full of older men and one of them pinched my ass.
I imagine my reaction to some strange guy grabbing my cock would be one of shock and confusion. Once I recover from the shock I just might become violent. I wouldn’t smash his head into a urinal but I’d feel justified in splitting his lip.
I’ll go ahead and admit that my reaction would be different if it were a woman grabbing my cock. I’d still be shocked and confused but I’ve been conditioned throughout my life that hitting women is wrong.
Marc
I say “older” women but when I was 19 anyone over 30 seemed kind of old.
Look. Dumbfuck. Try reading all the words next time.
Using force to stop an ongoing sexual assault is A-OK, as long as the force is suffiecient only to stop the assault and the force stops when the assault is ended. Never did I say anything different.
What you are saying in your thuggish fashion is that you think beating someone who touches your precious penis without permission into unconsciousness is acceptable. It’s not. It’s an over-reaction. That a male touching your penis would drive you immediately to the point of “all bets are off” regarding the violence of your reaction is IMHO rooted in homophobia. I don’t believe for a second that if a woman touched your penis without permission you would think beating her unconscious was an appropriate response, and even if you do I don’t believe that society as a whole would condone it the way it has and does condone the “gay panic” defense.
So there you have “over-reacting” and “homophobic.” As for “asshole,” well, that comes from having interacted with you.
Weird damn thread. I have nothing to say about the assault/self-defense/homophobia aspects of this debacle, but I do have a story about having my unit held while peeing.
Early in a relationship once (a boring, old-fashioned, heterosexual, male-female type relationship) the woman I was getting to know better wanted to hold mine while I whizzed. It didn’t make much sense to me, but I humored her. It was harder–er, more difficult–than I expected, but I managed to empty my bladder, and she apparently enjoyed it. Closest brush I ever had with water sports, for what it’s worth.
And now, back to your regularly scheduled pitting.
Go on, you just loved it.
First of all I am from Louisiana and it happened in Louisiana. Sorry if that bothers you. I suppose I should have lied and said that it happened right down the street from your house so that you would have something to relate too.
Here is one cite:
From here
Although most other states don’t spell it out, Louisiana states that one does not have to retreat when considering the use of force. This applies to homes, places of business, and cars. Other states, if spelled out, indicate you don’t have to retreat if you are in your own home only.
Do not assume that your little part of the country is the same as all of the others.
Who said anything about retreating? The point is that the use of force may not exceed what is necessary to stop the immediate threat. Anything beyond that is simple vengence, not self defense, and is not protected by law. Any force which is non-defensive is battery.
You have the right to expel a burglar from your house. You don’t have the right to chase him down the street and shoot him.
Annnyway, back to the OP.
Road Rash: Dude. Sorry. You looked pretty wasted, and I just wanted to keep you from pissing all over your shoes.
From the Louisiana code:
So in point of fact beating someone into unconsciousness for doing noting other than touching one’s genitals is not legally justifiable in Louisiana. Assuming the accuracy of Shagnasty’s revised version of events it appears that the force used by his father against the attacker was justifiable. Had the OP used the same level of force as Shagnasty’s father it would not be justifiable under Louisiana law.
Had she by any chance seem the movie Personal Best recently? There was a scene just like this in the film.
Detached reflection cannot be expected in the presence of an uplifted knife. I think that quote comes from Justice Oliver Holmes. When you’re frightened and reacting to an immediate threat it’s difficult to figure out exactly what the minimum amount of force is necessary to use.
Marc
The problem is when you’re not reacting to an immediate threat but just seeking to punish.
And I think some people are greatly over-inflating the “threat” which is implicit in someone reaching for your johnson.
I mean, be honest. Would you really be afraid for your life? Would you sincerely believe you were going to get raped? I don’t think so.
None of you were in the bathroom with Shagnasty’s dad. No one knows how hard this guy fought back. And he did have a “weapon” (the brush).
Seems to me that the OP reacted in a less violent manner than the Dad because he was mellowed out from a night of drinking. Heck, the situation didn’t hardly register with him until the next day!
But if I was in a family restaurant minding my own business taking a piss (although I’m a girl…) and someone came up behind me and even grabbed me without touching my bits, I’d be scared shitless and react like Dad did. I’d flail around and beat off whoever was grabbing me.
Furthermore, I wouldn’t be thinking “this person’s gay, ick!” i’d be thinking “holy shit, someone is grabbing me from behind while I’ve got my pants down!”
And remember, in a public restroom there’s alot of things for you to hit your head on if you fall. They’re not exactly big open arenas designed for fighting.
It’s nice to think that things would have worked out differently if The Dad would have calmly turned around and said “hey, knock it off” and the perp did so and backed away, but that is NOT what happened and I for one don’t blame him for his reaction.
Sorry for the error. I guess that when someone has “Holliston, MA” typed under their location heading, i guess i just naturally assume that Holliston, MA, is where they are. I’m a little crazy that way.
Furthermore, you never once said where you were from or where the incidient occurred before this post. I reiterate: your mind is too small for us to read it with any clarity.
Well, as Diogenes has already pointed out, this really doesn’t address the issue at hand. It makes absolutely no reference to the amount of force that is allowable in cases of self-defense. All it refers to is whether or not retreat is necessary. Not the same thing, i’m afraid.
Since it was apparently too much trouble for you to actually look at the appropriate Louisiana legislation, why don’t i show it to you? From Section 14, Criminal Law, of the Louisiana Statutes:
There’s that damnable word “reasonable” again, which is intended to prevent assholes like you from going apeshit on people just for the fun of it.
Actually, i haven’t even researched what the law is in Maryland. If you had bothered to actually read my earlier post on the issue, you’ll see that i very specifically found legal citations from the state where Road Rash is living (Texas), and from the state where you claim to be (Massachusetts). Do try to keep up.
And on preview i see that Otto beat me to the citation.
We’re not talking about Shagnasty’s dad anymore. We have all stipulated that the circumstances eucidated in Shag’s second post about would justify a more forceful reaction than what happened in the OP.
The issue at hand is whether someone reaching for your dork in a men’s room (not grabbing you from behind) is a valid justification for beating the grabber unconscious or dead.
More than one poster seems to think that it is acceptable to use violence beyond what is necessary to stop the “assault,” and at least one poster has suggested that having someone grab at your package is so traumatic and terrifying that it is not wrong to kill anyone who does it.
Let’s take MGibson’s story about having his ass pinched by some older women in a bar. Would any sane person say that he would have been justified in repeatedly smashing such a woman’s face into a table until she was unconscious or dead?
The scenario in the OP (the OP, not the Shagdaddy scenario) would not justify that kind of response any more than a lady pinching a guy’s ass.
And once again, you miss the point completely.
How many times do i, and others in this thread, need to say that a certain amount of violence is understandable and acceptable is such a situation? Grabbing the guys hand, and even elbowing into his face, seems to me to be a fairly reasonable reaction, especially if the victiim is startled and scared. No problem with it at all.
But this is exactly what i’ve been insisting all along is a measured response. Why do some people keep pretending that the only two options are (a) letting the guy fondle your weeny, or (b) beating him unconscious against a urinal?
People are allowed to freely move about the country you know. My location states where I live now but I grew up in Louisiana. Did I mention that this incident happened over 20 years ago? The only reason that I still know all the details is that me and my father were talking about it when I went to visit him this summer.
Yeah, that’s right, keep dwelling on the confusion over your location.
I guess actually dealing with the issue, and with the citations that show that you’re talking out your ass, is a little too complex for you.
With complete honesty, I can say that I would certainly be very afraid, and the first thing to occur to me would not be that it’s just a friendly grope (or even a wildly inappropriate grope) but a mugging. It’d depend what sort of bar I was in to an extent, too. Big men grabbing me from behind when I’m completely defenceless is a scary thing, and has nothing to do with gay panic (because, as has been pointed out, this sort of behaviour really doesn’t have much to do with being gay, and more to do with being an arsehole). I think this is the difference between a woman feeling you up and a man; the possibility that the latter intends violence is much greater. Let’s face it, if you want to disable someone quickly, it’s a pretty good spot to aim for.
Basically I think you’re asking the person being assaulted to make the on-the-spot assumption that it’s just some guy trying to cop a feel, and no more. This may not be an unreasonable assumption, but I do think it’s unreasonable to expect someone taken by surprise and grabbed like that to give their assailant so much benefit of so much doubt. The person is coming at them from behind; there’s simply no way to assess what they’re after, other than that they’ve grabbed an extremely sensitive part of your anatomy.
Of course, assuming you do react then you should only continue until the person is temporarily disabled, then get the hell out, but this goes without saying. My general preference is to run the hell away anyway (I don’t exactly have a fighter’s build), but again this comes back to being in a small, enclosed space in the first place; not somewhere conducive to escape, really, which would definitely contribute to my fear.