We are not even talking about Shagnasty’s dad any more. We have already stipulated the revised Shagdaddy story does not seem to constutue a use of undue force.
We are not talking about getting grabbed from behind. We are talking about somebody simply trying to touch your pecker and whether that in itself is justification for a homicidal rage. Not whether it is justification for reasonable defensive force (e.g. knocking the hand away). The question is whether a pecker grab alone is enough grounds to beat a person unconscious or dead.
Oh yeah, knock off the “we’re not talking about that anymore” bullshit. I paid my freaking money and if I wanna give my opinion on an earlier post I fucking well will!
The provocation for Shagnasty’s dad was much more than a dick grab alone. We all agree that the response was justified under those circumstances, so who were you arguing with?
Since some of you seem so worried about the matter, why don’t you just focus on discouraging the perverts from having a grab at some peeing fellows’ rod in the first place? Don’t play ‘blame the victim’, however fun it may be. Focus on the problem here: Criminal Weiner Grabbage. The reaction to CWG will of course vary from situation to situation, and it is a bit silly to wax philosophic on the matter without all sorts of concrete details.
I’m sorry if my “gays & bathroom cruising” comment offended. It did come across as being painted with way too broad of a brush stroke. Poor choice of wording on my part. I did make the assumption that the perp was gay - I don’t know that for a fact but chances are pretty good. But that is not the issue. the issue was that this was a perv, plain and simple. His actions, or other pervs like him that assault people in bathrooms, are sick and are not nor should ever be considered indicative of the gay community as a whole.
However if the pervs get the crap beat out of them for attempting to assault someone, then I’m not shedding a tear. If they’re not locked up, maybe they’ll at least think twice about doing it again.
No Brutus, the question is, do you consider the grabber to be a victim of another assault once he’s unconscious and having his head bounced off a urinal? Does a grabbee have carte blanche to do as he likes to his molester, nothing more than what it takes to keep himself safe, or something in between? Don’t dodge and say it’s tricky or depends. The things you need to do to keep yourself safe may depend but a victim’s objective during a grabbing shouldn’t differ.
Is it to defend and no more or is a little retribution allowed?
It’s tricky and depends on the particulars of the situation. The overriding priorities for the victim are A) To get the attacker to stop and B) To get away. However much violence is neccesary to facilitate A and B are what I consider justified. Sometimes that might mean beating the bastard into the hospital. Sometimes a simple but forceful elbow back and into the perverts face might suffice. Who knows? But sure as hell, my safety takes precedence over the perverts.
Exactly how many times do we need to reiterate that unwelcome grabbings of the rod are completely inappropriate? As far as i can tell, every single person who’s contributed to this thread, gay or straight, man or woman, has agreed that this sort of behavior is wrong, wrong, wrong. In case this isn’t enough for you, let me make a formal declaration, here and now:
I, mhendo, in the presence of the august members (heh) of the SDMB, do hereby declare that “having a grab at some peeing fellow’s rod” is wrong, and that it should be discouraged in all members (heh) of society.
Happy now?
As for your “blame the victim” comment, it begs the question of who is, in fact, the victim in each circumstance. Certainly, in the beginning, the person having his old fella grabbed is the victim. But, as the legal citations regarding self defense that i have provided in this thread show rather clearly, circumstances do permit the possibility that the victim, by his actions, can become the attacker, thus transforming the attacker into the victim of a new crime.
Good for you! Plaudits for your powerful posture regarding the peccant pinching of poor pissers’ peckers!
The possiblity, sure. And the rest of this thread is a bunch of you trying to goad people into outlining a scenario that fits into that possibility. Like I’ve said a bajillion times, the appropriate response varies with the details of the situation. Nothing more, nothing less.
No-one was trying to goad anyone. We were just trying to convince some people that the automatic, default reaction in such a case should not be to pulverize someone’s head against a urinal. The OP showed very well that a reasonable response can result in the most desirable outcome–no grabbed pecker, and no blood on the floor.
Actually, this whole thing could probably have been avoided if Shagnasty had utilized more than three neurons in composing his first post. If it hadn’t been for that inflammatory screed, this whole thread would probably have been nothing but comments on how gross and inappropriate random penis-grabbing is.
Sure thing, in that one scenario. But the needed action may be the pulverizing of heads in other scenarios. There is no way to make a blanket statement about the appropriate level of force to use when liberating ones’ panzerfaust from the clutches of some moustachio-twisting perv. Like snowflakes, every particular situation is different.
Penis-grabbing? Oh, it’s a blast. Next time you are at a public re-Err, nevermind.
Cool. You’re not going to get a single bit of argument from me over anything that you’ve written there.
What I was responding to was the suggestion being made again and again that this was a gay vs. straight thing. As you say here, and as several other posters repeated over and over, it’s not.
“You guys?” Who do you mean? Do you mean “YOU HOMOS?” Is THAT what you’re trying to say? OH MY GOD I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT. You think we HOMOS getting a free ride here on the SDMB because we’ve been policing the boards, jumping all over anyone who dares say anything that can be remotely construed as offensive? Is THAT it? YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING HOMOPHOBE!!!
See, that is “vitriol” and “over-reacting” and “anger.” I don’t think my using the word “bullshit” in a Pit thread where people are talking about bashing someone’s head against a urinal qualifies as “vitriol,” but what do I know.
As for what he could have said that wouldn’t have gotten me so “wound up?” How about “what is it with people and bathroom groping?”
I dunno, maybe I was over-reacting; I sure don’t think so. After seeing threads on here sincerely asking whether gay guys are more inclined to “deviant” sexual practices and so on, how dating is fundamentally different for gay people since we’re all just looking for sex, and the OP’s trying to make sense of the incident by saying that he might have set off the pervert’s “gaydar” – I’m anxious to dispel the notion that “homosexual” == “perpetually horny perv always looking to get off.”
Thank you Sweetie! I have never had my lack of insight into others’ psyche result in “fun” before. Usually, it has negative consequences and I get myself into a great big mess.
Do you think that I should put “Inflammatory Screed” on my resume? I am not sure what it means but I know that companies are impressed by real big words and fancy titles.
