Help me understand these women.

In My Humble Opinion
1

As a guy, and as a guy who has been out of the loop for awhile I don’t understand these three women and I was hoping someone could tell me what’s going on.

The first is a semi friend of my ex wife’s. That there is probably the problem. On my birthday a few months ago she e-mails me saying happy birthday. I hadn’t heard from her in a long time so it was a suprise to me. So we got to talking, e-mailing etc and I asked if she wanted to have dinner. She said that she couldn’t but maybe another time. So things are off and on with the talking and e-mailing since I’ve been traveling. I asked a couple of weeks ago if she wanted to have dinner and see my pictures. She said yes. The day before she e-mailed me and told me that she couldn’t make it and maybe we could do it another time.

To cut this story short after a few times of this I finally asked if she wanted me to not suggest getting together and she said yes. :confused: So my question is why would she sting me along like this? I figured that she didn’t want to because of the ex, something that I understand, but I did tell he it was only as friends. Also why would she contact me after a year or so if she didn’t want to even be friends?

The second woman is a manager of a photo store that I get my pictures developed at. When I first saw her she smiled at me etc for the first few times I came into the store. Then we began to talk and we seemed to get along well. She said happy birthday to me when doing my check, told me her birthday little things like that. I didn’t see all that much of her since I can’t take a roll of pictures a day, but one day she just turned a cold sholder to me. She even went so far as to have someone else help me and left the store. Now I know it wasn’t the pictures because they were of landmarks so nothing dirty, hell no other women in the pictures either.

She still smiles at me, but will not really talk to me, I have even tried to compliment her on her blouse. The only thing that I can think of is that I started to grow some facial hair as that was around the time she stopped talking to me. So what’s up with her? Did I miss some window? Did she just tire of flirting with me? Or maybe she felt she couldn’t date a costomer?

The third woman I work with, though in different sections. I’ve been talking to her for a week now with a bit of minor flirting before. We’ve talked about what we’re doing over the weekends etc, talked about work things like that. I thought things were going ok, but I find out today that she’s seeing someone. Now when I’ve been talking to her she never even hinted that she’s seeing someone. That kind of confuses me as I would have though that she would have said something.

When I was leaving to go see FairyChatMom this past weekend she told me to pick up some magnets. She seemed quite happy that I got some for her. I’ve asked her to goto Six Flags with a group this weekend, though she does have work so she might not be able to. I’ve been thinking on asking her to lunch, but now that I know she is seeing someone I don’t know if I should. So should I keep after this woman? I can’t tell if she is intersted or not so any general hints on how to tell if a woman is intersted or not would be helpful as well.

Ugh, you’d think that this would get easier as you got older. :smack:

2

Perhaps you should try asking women whether they are interested or not?

3

Maybe woman #1 was spying on you for the ex.

Maybe woman #2 decided to stop flirting because she never knows when you’re going to pop in again.

Maybe woman #3 wasn’t seeing someone when she first started flirting with you. Now that she is, she either wants to be friends or she wants to keep you interested in case it doesn’t work out with boyfriend.

4

#1 - I’m going to generalize and say that woman are pretty competitive creatures. This woman wanted to see if she could obtain what her friend had lost. Once she found out she could, she didn’t want you anymore.

#2 - It’s possible that this woman was reprimanded for talking instead of working.

#3 - It could be that the relationship she has isn’t that serious. I would ask her flat out if she is in a serious relationship or is merely dating someone. There is a big difference.

The only other problem I see is that you have the words “understand” and “women” in the same sentence. :wink:

Good Luck

5

Woman #1 is lame. At the very least, she should have blown you off more clearly. Ideally, she would just tell you she didn’t think it was a good idea to go out together – she had the perfect excuse, what with being friends with your ex.

Woman #2 didn’t actually like you. You’re reading way too much into woman #2. She may have been having a bad day when she gave you the cold shoulder. She may not even know who you are. Forget about woman #2.

Woman #3 is just trying to be a friendly coworker. She didn’t like you either.

Don’t assume that everyone is trying to send a signal at all times. Sometimes people are just friendly. Sometimes people will want you desperately, but hide it. You’ll never know for sure until you ask them directly. If you meet someone you like and they seem friendly toward you, ask them out. If they have a boyfriend, or didn’t actually like you, they’ll decline or blow you off. If the latter, once you realize what they’re doing, move on. Don’t dwell on it – many people string others along because they can’t face the confrontation of telling someone “I don’t want to date you”.

6

Maybe women are just fucking insane! Hey, in all fairness, guys are stupid as shit, but hey, at least we’re simple.

Hmmm, woman one probably just came across your email address one day, realized “Hey, I haven’t spoken to him in a long while,” and decided to see what was up. Getting invites to dinner probably hinted that you were looking for something else, and although you say “Just as friends,” it didn’t help. Why? Well, sometimes, it’s just a cop out guys use. Sure, we always say “Yes” when a girl rejects us with the friends speach, but we’re always thinking “Give her time, she’ll warm up.” One of my friends told me about this guy she’d been hanging out with, but said he knew she wasn’t ready for dating. I asked her “Does he know, or does he KNOW” He didn’t know. That’s why. The situation just turned awkward for her, and even though you tried to say “Hey, it’s just a friendly invite” and could very well have ment it as such, she still read “Dinner. You know, dinner, nudge nudge, wink wink,” and being a friend of your ex’s, that’s just wierd. She probably just meant to keep you as an aquaintance but felt you were reading too much into it, it made her awkward, and she pulled out.

Woman #2? I have no idea. I’ve been in the same boat, and there’s really no explaination of it. maybe that first day she was just in a bad mood, and for every occassion after that, she sees herself as being perfectly normal, but you’re reading too much into it. Recently, something like that happened with my ex. I said something one day, she got irrate with me, and although later she claimed she was over it the next day, for an entire week, I felt funky vibes off of her, so I reacted all stupid. Most of this could just be in your head. Or, maybe the addition of facial hair just makes you remind her of a child molester. Who knows? Also, the fact that you’re a friendly customer, and she’s a friendly sales person doesn’t necessarily mean some big connection. I work a shitty retail job and see a lot of the same customers over and over. Some of them I feel a strong connection with, some of them I don’t, but I know that (with the exception of those who blatantly give me their phone numbers) there’s nothing romantic there, even with the most friendly of them.

Girl #3. She probably never mentioned she was seeing someone because you’re casual business aquaintances, and that’s a part of her personal life she just doesn’t feel like sharing. Again, some people are just overly friendly, so what you perceived as flirting the first time around was probably just her being naturally friendly.

So, there you go. Admitedly, I’m still young, so I don’t know much, but I’ve been in scenarios like your’s plenty of times before (or at least, similar ones). Forget about all of them, and just move on. And remember:

YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WOMEN!!!

It’s just a fact of life.

7

Jeez, you poor man. Reading that made my head hurt. I just think people are simply weird, is all, quite honestly. Who knows what really motivates anybody? Sorry if that’s not much help. Good luck, though!

8

Most men make a mistake in assuming that because something they have seen a woman do doesn’t make any sense to them it has some deep, complicated source or that it is something peculiar to their sex. Frequently they’re just odd people who’s behavior isn’t like most everyone else but you notice because you’re more focused on them.

The case of those behaviors overwhelmingly associated with women is a bit different but not much more complicated. Men have few strong conflicts in their motivational -behavioral framework as regards women, women have lots as regards men. For example, assuming a man with no cultural inhibitions, faced with the decision of whether to initiate mating behavior (that is offer to mate). His only considerations are, is she willing (will she hurt me if I try to mate) and will someone else hurt me if I try to mate. A woman in this situation has a host of considerations in addition to the above, is this person the best I could do, will he be dangerous in the future, will mating with him reduce my social status, is he likely to or capable of supporting me/our offspring et. The possible qualms a woman might have are so great that her rational capacity might be strong enough to inhibit mating altogether as a bad bet. This would have catastrophic consequences for the continuation of the species and so evolution comes to the rescue by giving women much stronger and more unpredictable irrational urges in this area. The more conflicted the woman the more energy piles up behind the instinct till, boom, they bop some drug store Casanova without knowing why they did it. Understand animals and you understand people, most talk is just rationalization for instinct. If this sounds like misogyny please understand I make an equally uncomplimentary assessment of men.

This affect is plainly seen by comparing those women’s magazine lists about what women want in a man to what any experienced man knows is what will most induce women to sleep with you.

What women say they want.

Understanding and caring
Humor
Intelligence
Self confidence
Successful/rich

What induces mating

Self confidence to the point of arrogance
Rich/successful
Promiscuous
Intelligence
Good looking

By contrast what men say they want is pretty much what they want, not that it’s better, it’s more shallow and ignoble if anything but there isn’t a conflict. The conflict is at the heart of everything that makes women’s, per se behavior strange to men

9

#1 changed her mind. You didn’t have a set date, so she really didn’t stand you up, or even cancel. Let it go. #2 – as Giraffe stated. You read WAY too much into it. #3 – sounds like she picked up a let’s get together vibe from you. She was then honest and told you she was seeing someone.

10

Uncle Toby,I don’t think this is accurate at all–I think it’s another example of some women behaving this way and it being assumed that all women will actually only sleep with arrogant, rich, promiscuous men. In fact, I can think back over the opportunities I’ve had and the ones I’ve accepted, and every single arrogant candidate was, without exception, refused. Promiscuous required some further review. Most women I know hold similar views and have had similar mating habits. I think there’s a skew in your “What induces mating” list.

That said, I don’t entirely disagree with you. Women are people, just like men are, and are not any harder to understand than men are, except often men don’t appreciate just how threatening they are. Men are bigger and stronger, and getting involved with a man can be extremely dangerous. A woman doesn’t just assess how much money a man makes and how he looks, but also how likely he is to kill or injure her.

I think woman number one just wanted to be friends, but “dinner” sends an entirely different signal. You can’t say “we’re just friends” and then invite her to dinner, not unless the friendship is of long standing and the relationship is well understood. Next time this sort of thing comes up, try lunch or coffee. She should have been plainer with you from the beginning, but I’d guess that was the source of her discomfort.

Woman number two may have just had a bad day, or she may have decided that what seemed like harmless fun to her was turning into real interest on your side. She doesn’t know you well enough to go there, or else she’s just not interested in that, and decided to send you a plain signal. Either way, it’s no big deal, blow it off.

Woman number three may have no idea you’re interpreting her behavior as real interest. As previous posters have said, it’s difficult to tell the difference between open friendliness and real interest. If you’re really interested in her, by all means tell her so (unless you think she’s really serious about whoever she’s seeing), but if she turns you down don’t take it personally and move on.

11

As you say women are all different, my remarks are directed to the discernible generalities and represent to some extent the subset of highly conflicted women. The same can be said of men. Anyone can have inhibitions which channel or cancel their instincts either self imposed or imposed by society, when viewed en masse the instincts can be seen as trends across cultures and time. Also all instincts are not equally strong in all people but generally your prototype Don Giovanni gets the girls, and not just because he’s trying harder. It’s not that he can seduce any woman it’s that he can seduce the most women and the more like D.G. he is the more successful he’ll be.

12

Edward, Im still trying to understand womens’ logic. I once asked my psychologist, a woman, to explain it & she said she cant, its impossible.

How old are you? Whats your age range if you don’t want to give your age & how old are these women?

13

#1 - was just trying to be nice, saying hi and that was that. She didn’t want to be invited to dinner, as she is your ex’s semi-friend. She didn’t have the ba**s to tell you that she was uncomfortable with the proposal in the first place, yadda, yadda.

#2 - women who work in photo stores are nuts no matter where you go (it must be the chemicals or something) - seriously, you didn’t take in a roll a day so therefore you’re wrong - she feels since you didn’t make the extra effort to at least make excuses to go there she cut you off - see ya (p.s about how old was she? this behavior is common among my younger co-workers… comments like “Oh that guy I was telling you about, he didn’t come in today… do you think he’s married or something?” - these women are librarians

#3 - is it wrong to flirt with someone when you are “with another”? Men and women do it all the time. It didn’t mean she was interested, it was just some harmless flirting. Heck I’m a married woman and I flirt with another female co-worker all the time _

14

I’ve also heard about guys acting the same way as bachelorette #1. I don’t think it’s always a gender thing.

Some people are weird. I wouldn’t take this all personally. – FWIW

15

I can answer some questions and clairify some things that I probably wrote wrong. FTR I’m 29 and was married for 6 years.

Lady one is 30, I’ve known her for 3-4 years I guess. She had not contacted me in close to a year. She contacted me onmy birthday, a day I do not go out of my way to celebrate and even my best friends do not know the date. That’s why I thought it was strange. Also we did have a date and time set up for dinner and she was the one who made the date.

Lady two is 29. She talked to me for around six weeks so it wasn’t just one time. Hell had it been once I wouldn’t have noticed it much. I also don’t think that she got in trouble, though it is possible, because she is the manager of the store. There maybe a district manager above her but not at the store. I also did not talk to her when there were other people around. She still smiles at me when I walk in, something I have not noticed her do when anyone else walks in.

The third lady is 25 give or take a year. She was not the one that told me she was seeing someone, I asked a friend of hers. I just thought it odd that when she was telling me what she was doing over the weekend etc she never brought anyone else up.

I’m really not worried about any of these women, I’m just trying to learn, I was married through the majority of my 20s so I missed out on this type of thing. Now I get to play a lot of catch up. I figured the best way to learn would be to ask the dopers and it seems I was right. Any other suggestions are of course welcome.

16

I’m the sort of person who talks to people. In the store, in parks, at work. I’m not flirting, I’m just interested in them. I think you read too much into women #2 & 3. Woman #1 was just a bitca who led you along, IMHO.

StG

17

Well, actually it is because he’s trying harder. Your DG type is constantly on the prowl. If one woman turns him down, he’s on to the next one. Odds are, there’s some woman in the area who’ll take him up on his offer. But it’s not because generally women are more attracted to his type, it’s because if you throw enough mud against a barn wall, some will eventually stick.

I used to think there was something wrong with me–why, every time I went out with friends, did I have these offensive DG-type guys always coming on to me? Weren’t there any decent guys out there, and why weren’t they attracted to me? Then I realized it wasn’t me, it was them. And decent guys, the ones with humor and sensitivity and intelligence and all that, weren’t going to “Hey baby” me on their first approach. They were going to be interested in me as a person, as well as sexually, and might be very nervous about making their interest known. DG throws mud around wherever he goes and usually hits something just out of pure probability, but your non-DG often won’t even pick up a handful of mud until he can get his courage up, or be sure of a woman’s interest. Initially DG looks more successful, but you’re not seeing all the mud that didn’t stick. There’s lots of it.

18

Perhaps I should clarify something; when I say “to the point of arrogance” I mean to the brink but not quite there. Women do not like arrogance because in means an unjustifiably high opinion of one’s importance, they like to think their man’s attitude is justified. Other people might disagree with her assessment but as long as she is with him she does not see him as arrogant, just confident. Afterward, she realizes her mistake and regrets falling for such an arrogant bastard.

Women choose their men for a lot of reasons that make sense, women can be very pragmatic. What interests me is when they act against sense and better judgment, that is where you see the underlying instinct. Conditioning and even reason influences our choices, especially of a long-term partner but instinct is the part that confuses people, that makes behavior seem mysterious. When I hear a man say “I don’t understand women”, the short answer is they are like men except for their POV and their instinct. Work through the ramifications of this and if you know the person’s background and a little bit about their character you can pretty much predict what they’ll do.

Bren_Cameron

You are not describing Don Giovanni, you are describing a frat boy. When I was in college I made a study of my womanizing friends (isn’t womanizer a great word, sounds like something you’d order from K-Tel on late night TV) and the “Hey Baby” types were talkers not lovers. A true D.G. would never be so obvious, remember Leparello kept score the Don was more like Aristotle Onassis, “if you know how many millions you’ve got you’re not a billionaire”. The arch seducer knows it’s a cardinal sin to be obvious. His goal is to remove all a woman’s qualms so her instinct can take hold and damage to her reputation is a big one.

19

Edward The Head, seems all three women have hit the ‘friendship zone’?

20

Heh! Good thing I wasn’t drinking when I read that!

I’m still having trouble with the “women are really attracted to this type, even though they say they’re not” bit. If these men are successful because they manage to counterfeit sensitivity, etc., then surely what they’re pretending to be is what attracts? If the arrogance is concealed, the promiscuity is concealed, for the purpose of seducing, then how can it be what the woman is attracted to? The problem then isn’t that these women aren’t really after the kind of men they say they are, but that they can’t tell the difference between an appropriate choice and a deceptive one. Personally, I don’t think that’s as much about instinct as it is about intellegence.