Heroes 12/4: "Fallout"

Cafe Society
201

Ooooh, I’ll bet you’re right about that, Draelin. Hopefully we’ll find out by the end of the season.
Oh, and someone suggested upthread that maybe the painting of Hiro fighting the dinosaur is just symbolic of the tribulations he is going to face. I don’t buy that–so far, Isaac’s prophetic paintings have all been quite “literal.” That could still mean that it will turn out to be a fake dinosaur–like a display at a museum or a comic-con–but the visual image should match fairly well with the painting.

Man, January 22 seems like a long time away!

202

[QUOTE=RikWriter]
They don’t matter to me, either. I’d rather they concentrate on the story.
[/QUOTE]

Again, that’s fine for you, but for me, if they’re going to keep me guessing and want me to be satisfied with the resolution, they better have their shit straighter.

The reason I was so convinced that Sylar had not killed Charlie after Hiro jumped back was that it was the only way that the behavior of the people in the diner made a goddamn bit of sense to me. I was fine with the idea they’d be walking around normally if, in the new continuity, she had died a number of weeks earlier of her aneurysm, as the emotional wounds would no longer be as fresh. She was dead because on some metaphysical level, she was to die and that’s that. I could have bought that. I like to suspend my disbelief.

The fact that Ando remembers arriving with Hiro, and now the waitress seems only to remember Hiro from when he hung around Charlie before disappearing “a while ago”, I’m OK with that too. Hiro’s concerned about rifts, and here one seems to be. I’m an accomodating guy.

Instead we find that Sylar murdered her after all. Which means, if I work at the diner:

[ul]
[li]My co-worker who I care enough about to throw a birthday party for six months earlier has been suddenly murdered in bizarre and horrific fashion not twenty feet away from me in another room that no one saw her assailant enter or leave. I don’t expect to be at work. I expect I take the rest of the day off to begin to cope, which would be fine anyway, because the cops should have cordoned the place off and gone over it with a fine-toothed comb in search of how the guy got on and where he might have gone.[/li][li]If for some reason, the cops have already gone on their merry way, and for some reason my boss is enough of a hardass to keep the place open the rest of the day, I’m not going about my business normally, I’d definitely be thrown. I’d wonder, for one, if the guy was still hanging around.[/li][li]Presuming the above, on the selfsame day, some guy arrives, alone as far as I’m concerned, and says he’s waiting for my suddenly horribly dead co-worker’s admirer who arrived mysterioulsy one day and then vanished from her life some time ago. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Once the guy’s been hanging around for six or twelve hours, I’m making a discreet call to the cops so this dude can be questioned.[/li][li]But maybe I don’t for some reason. However, just as the local news should be saturated with word of a nearly identical murder not 25 miles away on the same day, said missing admirer DOES show up, by bus. Now, memories of my dead co-worker still VERY fresh in my mind, it having been less than 48 hours past, my call to the cops is more immediate and less clandestine.[/li][/ul]

But none of this happened in the last two episodes.

Now perhaps there is some great revelation coming that explains the unnatural normalcy that has gripped the Midland-Odessa metropolitan area in the face of these events, and if they can explain it all to my satisfaction, I’ll be the first to eat my words and praise them to the skies.

Until then, I call shitty writing. Of Poison Ivy-like proportions.

203

Draelin, I was thinking the exact same thing regarding the scar but there’s so many directions the show could go in when it returns it’s hard to predict. If Sylar goes after Peter for his duplication abilities then its likely the source of the scar. On the other hand, if Peter is really the center of the explosion in New York then that will probably be how he gets the scar. Either way I predict face mangling injury to Peter by the end of the season!

Of course I seem to be only going about 1 in 4 on my predictions but what’s the fun if we can’t speculate wildly?

204

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
Again, that’s fine for you, but for me, if they’re going to keep me guessing and want me to be satisfied with the resolution, they better have their shit straighter.

The reason I was so convinced that Sylar had not killed Charlie after Hiro jumped back was that it was the only way that the behavior of the people in the diner made a goddamn bit of sense to me. I was fine with the idea they’d be walking around normally if, in the new continuity, she had died a number of weeks earlier of her aneurysm, as the emotional wounds would no longer be as fresh. She was dead because on some metaphysical level, she was to die and that’s that. I could have bought that. I like to suspend my disbelief.

The fact that Ando remembers arriving with Hiro, and now the waitress seems only to remember Hiro from when he hung around Charlie before disappearing “a while ago”, I’m OK with that too. Hiro’s concerned about rifts, and here one seems to be. I’m an accomodating guy.

Instead we find that Sylar murdered her after all. Which means, if I work at the diner:

[ul]
[li]My co-worker who I care enough about to throw a birthday party for six months earlier has been suddenly murdered in bizarre and horrific fashion not twenty feet away from me in another room that no one saw her assailant enter or leave. I don’t expect to be at work. I expect I take the rest of the day off to begin to cope, which would be fine anyway, because the cops should have cordoned the place off and gone over it with a fine-toothed comb in search of how the guy got on and where he might have gone.[/li][li]If for some reason, the cops have already gone on their merry way, and for some reason my boss is enough of a hardass to keep the place open the rest of the day, I’m not going about my business normally, I’d definitely be thrown. I’d wonder, for one, if the guy was still hanging around.[/li][li]Presuming the above, on the selfsame day, some guy arrives, alone as far as I’m concerned, and says he’s waiting for my suddenly horribly dead co-worker’s admirer who arrived mysterioulsy one day and then vanished from her life some time ago. Coincidence? I don’t think so. Once the guy’s been hanging around for six or twelve hours, I’m making a discreet call to the cops so this dude can be questioned.[/li][li]But maybe I don’t for some reason. However, just as the local news should be saturated with word of a nearly identical murder not 25 miles away on the same day, said missing admirer DOES show up, by bus. Now, memories of my dead co-worker still VERY fresh in my mind, it having been less than 48 hours past, my call to the cops is more immediate and less clandestine.[/li][/ul]

But none of this happened in the last two episodes.

Now perhaps there is some great revelation coming that explains the unnatural normalcy that has gripped the Midland-Odessa metropolitan area in the face of these events, and if they can explain it all to my satisfaction, I’ll be the first to eat my words and praise them to the skies.

Until then, I call shitty writing. Of Poison Ivy-like proportions.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t think that the memorial was set up the same day as her death, or even the next day. Was there some other cue that I missed that would indicate that Hiro was returning that soon after the murder? I thought that Ando seemed surprised that Hiro had made it back and indicated something about Hiro being gone for a while.

205

You make good points scotandrsn. The attitude in the diner was wierd. It’s why I was confused about the effects of hiro’s journey to the past.

206

[QUOTE=Cuckoorex]
I don’t think that the memorial was set up the same day as her death, or even the next day. Was there some other cue that I missed that would indicate that Hiro was returning that soon after the murder? I thought that Ando seemed surprised that Hiro had made it back and indicated something about Hiro being gone for a while.
[/QUOTE]

The assumption that the story threads are told more or less contiguously unless otherwise indicated for dramatic effect puts Hiro and Ando reunited at the diner at about the same time that Mohinder is in NY calling some sort of authorities and declaring “Charlotte so-and-so was just murdered two days ago!”

So yes, there’s every indication that the memorial and return to business-as-usual happened just that quickly. As I said, shitty writing.

Or perhaps, four months from now, they will suddenly have another surprise “this sequence actually takes place weeks away from when you think it does”, which was excellent in the opener. However, introducing such a twist after a four-week hiatus would also be shitty writing.

207

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]

So yes, there’s every indication that the memorial and return to business-as-usual happened just that quickly. As I said, shitty writing.

[/QUOTE]

Well, they did have a memorial up for her. It’s not like they were acting like she never existed.

A bigger concern would be the potential health concerns and the fact that it’s a crime scene. So I agree that the writers dropped the ball there.

208

Maybe the Haitian guy’s been working a lot of overtime this week…

209

[QUOTE=Ethilrist]
Maybe the Haitian guy’s been working a lot of overtime this week…
[/QUOTE]

I always picture him doing it like the “flashy thingy” thing from Men In Black. “Alright people gather round…look right here…”

210

Did anybody else notice that Peter, in his dream/vision, appeared to be wearing a Sylar-brand watch and a dark trenchcoat (rather than the light trenchcoat he wore in Homecoming)? And the soundtrack has the ticking sounds that are part of Sylar’s motif. Yet the other heroes all appear to recognize Peter as Peter.

I’m thinking Peter is far more powerful than we’ve seen so far. I’m guessing there will be a final confrontation between the Heroes and Sylar, which is somehow resolved by Peter taking on Sylar’s powers (including Ted’s, which I conjecture Sylar will acquire). Peter then becomes the threat seen in the vision, and Nathan (who we see walking towards Peter with determination), per Otto’s theory, sacrifices himself by flying Peter out of there.

Interesting that Isaac appears in the vision. When the explosion goes off, he’s supposed to be dead. Also, all of Isaac’s paintings have come true so far, just not always in the most obvious way. That suggests the explosion will happen too. Perhaps they can only affect the aftermath.

211

Even more interesting that Simone (Peter’s new girlfriend) shows up–everybody else in the dream has powers; Matt’s there, but not his partner. Nathan’s there, but not his wife. But Simone’s there…

212

[QUOTE=Cuckoorex]
Well, they did have a memorial up for her. It’s not like they were acting like she never existed.
[/QUOTE]

It’s not that they act like she didn’t exist, it’s that they act like the memory of her getting sliced open and de-brained right under their noses isn’t barely as old as this episode is now.

It ain’t normal, I tell ya!

213

[QUOTE=Ethilrist]
Even more interesting that Simone (Peter’s new girlfriend) shows up–everybody else in the dream has powers; Matt’s there, but not his partner. Nathan’s there, but not his wife. But Simone’s there…
[/QUOTE]

Not everbody. Mohinder was there as well, seen getting out of the driver’s side of a taxi (seemingly indicating how he took up his fatther’s work.) I just take that to mean that Simone has a larger part to play later on.

214

[QUOTE=Otto]
I won’t get a DVR because I have no interest in sending off marketing information to the people who sell them. Give me one that isn’t also a snitch and I’ll gladly use it.
[/QUOTE]

TiVo, IIRC, only collects anonymous, aggregate data, like how many people recorded a show. It’s very odd to me if the idea of that bothers you so much that you would pass on hugely upgrading your tv watching experience.

In any case, there’s a way to opt out of that data collection on the TiVo website.

[QUOTE=astro]
Not all the time. The Haitian can’t be everywhere 24/7 so my assumption is that there are mechanisms in the cell that somehow dampen Syler’s powers (and all mutant powers) . When she turned off the dampening field so she could use her power, he used his. Pretty stupid of her if that’s the way it went down.
[/QUOTE]

Well, from her perspective, she controlled him before, and thought she could do it again.

[QUOTE=Wile E]

Speaking of Peter absorbing powers, he was close to Sylar so didn’t he absorb some of his powers?

[/quote]

It’s not clear, but it’s possible that Peter was using telekinesis to deflect the locker doors being thrown at him in the episode 2 weeks ago.

[QUOTE=Wile E]
I got a katana a few weeks ago at a fantasy/sci fi convention for $25. But I don’t think I’d want to go up against a dinosaur with it.
[/QUOTE]

True, dinosaur-certified katanas go for much more.

[QUOTE=Otto]

My theory is that her power was diffused by speaking throuh the intercom, which allowed Syler to resist long enough to pull her in. Once he had his hand on her throat she couldn’t speak.
[/QUOTE]

Good guess, but they did do the thing where they echo/deepen her voice from the perspective of the person being persuaded. In the past, they’ve used that to indicate that she was using her power.

[QUOTE=Lissa]
That’s what threw me. It seems unnecessarily cruel to delete the entire friendship. Why would AED have that taken away from her when he has to know how much Zach means to Claire. (He’s been over at the house many times and he was supposedly the only person with whom Claire shared her secret.) Seems like if the Hatian could be selective, AED would just say, “Take out everything about her powers, but don’t take away their friendship.”
[/QUOTE]

It would be unsafe and possibly impossible to do anything else.

The whole development of their relationship was directly because of, and related to, her powers. The reason they were together and developed as friends was her power - her power was entirely integral to that. If you just left in all the memories but eliminated every reference to her powers, the memories would no longer make any sense.

No one mentioned the wink and nod from the writers - Isaac saying something like “that’s why I like comics.. they’re uncomplicated”.
Also, for what it’s worth, two things about spoiler boxes.

A) You should preface your spoiler box with a description of what that’s going to contain. Just having an entire reply be in a spoiler box is useless - as you have to read it in order to find out what it’s about. If you have information with a specific source, you should say “From an interview with the writers {spoiler}”.

B) Spoiler boxes shouldn’t be used for conjecture. If you’re guessing something with no inside information, well, that’s exactly the sort of thing we’re here to discuss. No need to spoiler boxes that. And it just makes spoiler boxes even more ambiguous as to whether or not they’re actual spoilers, compounding problem A.

Also - I don’t think this one will have popular support, but I’d like if people spoiler boxed things seen in the weekly previews. The storytellers aren’t the ones who design these previews, dumbass marketing teams are. So they often spoil significant parts of the episodes. I avoid them for that reason. I’d like to be able to have the option to avoid them in these threads too.

215

Oh, also, I agree that Sylar killing Charlie on time just doesn’t make sense, unless Ando is waiting there for a week or longer.

For there to be a memorial there, and things going on normally, she would’ve had to have died earlier than she did in the original timeline.

216

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Good guess, but they did do the thing where they echo/deepen her voice from the perspective of the person being persuaded. In the past, they’ve used that to indicate that she was using her power.
[/quote]

Right, but to me it sounded like the Voice-effect was at a much diminished level than we’ve heard previously. Compare what she sounded like Voicing Sylar behind the glass through an intercom to how she sounded when she tried to Voice AED face to face in “Six Months Ago.” Huge difference, which I think was an aural cue from the storytellers that her power was being diffused by the electronic and physical barriers.

217

[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Also - I don’t think this one will have popular support, but I’d like if people spoiler boxed things seen in the weekly previews. The storytellers aren’t the ones who design these previews, dumbass marketing teams are. So they often spoil significant parts of the episodes. I avoid them for that reason. I’d like to be able to have the option to avoid them in these threads too.
[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%, but I’ve lost this argument before. :slight_smile:

218

[QUOTE=borschevsky]
I agree 100%, but I’ve lost this argument before. :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

Well, talk to Hiro, then.

Oh, wait, he can’t change the past after all… never mind.

219

The Haitian must be able to selectively influence those around him regardless of what type of power they have. He’s been shown to dampen Eden’s power (when she’s first captured by AED) but she is able to use it around Sylar in the woods.

220

When Mohinder is on the phone talking to the FBI(?) about “Charlotte Something-or-other was just killed 2 days ago”… wasn’t that about Charlie? The nickname makes sense, and I’m pretty sure he said it was in Texas. So Hiro came back to the café 2 days after Charlie was killed, which was the same day as the Homecoming attack… 2 days for a memorial to be set up makes sense, doesn’t it?

I’d pretty much have to rewatch everything… can someone else who’s been following things better than me see if it works under that assumption?