Just stop going up to women who have no idea who you are. It’s not going to work. It’s creepy.
It’s complicated. There are lots of ways. I’ll give you one example. People who like themselves say positive things about themselves. They’re open and emotionally expressive, because the way they’re feeling is positive and they don’t have to hide who they really are.
How are you going to react when your date jokes about how she’d have even more of a height advantage when she wears her high heels around you? Are you going to have a witty joke ready or are you going to tense up and stare awkwardly, saying nothing, to ensure she has no idea you’re sensitive about your height?
Mutually hiding your fears and anxieties from one another so as not to creep each other out and make yourselves miserable is almost exactly the same as not being in a relationship with someone at all. To be fair, I’m kind of thinking about it with an adult filter. Teenage relationships are all stupid. Still, you should at least aspire to develop emotional intimacy. Hoping for the exact opposite is silly.
How did you come to know so much about what women care about? You’ve practically never even had a conversation with one. Why do you put so much weight in what unsuccessful men on the Internet think?
Would you say that in general you have a difficult time empathizing with other people’s life experiences?
Okay, I won’t. I was just wondering how people who do cold approach, do it.
Well, as I said earlier, I in general don’t have quick wit. I would probably just smile and yeah…but that’s not so much because of the insecurity, but because I suck at quick wit.
Now that I think about it, I think you’re right in that maybe it shouldn’t be kept completely hidden and I probably would open up a little bit about it eventually. But there’s a difference between just mentioning your insecurities and constantly bugging your partner about it. In your hypothetical situation, if she was to simply mention it, it would be no big deal. On the other hand, if she kept pestering me about it, that would be a problem.
Why would they lie? Sure, a few far and in between may have just been trolls, but I would assume most of them are telling the truth.
No, I don’t.
By the way, thanks for taking the time to go through this with me.
Fuzzy, bobkitty, Calatin and P-Man, it’s becoming blatantly obvious to me that R3d is suffering from terminal uniqueness. No suggestion, encouragement, advice, or perspective can ever assist someone with this self-imposed affliction. Anything, and everything in the entire world that has ever worked for other people will never work for them because they’re just so. damn. special.
So, R3d, just for fun (if you understand that concept at all) let’s add “intractable” and “insane” to that list of mine - being that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result.
And, again just for fun (google it - there is no bullshit on the internet) let me write a dating profile for you from what I’ve gleaned from ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY ONE posts dedicated to you and your ego-centric bleatings:
*I am a 16-year-old, reasonably intelligent, accomplished violinist and killer chess player. I am not an extrovert, but enjoy the company of a tight circle of friends. Instead of living life, I rely on the internet to tell me how everything should be (except for my hair which is under the strict control of my parents). I aspire to nothing other than not being single between the ages of 18 and 25 when statistically I will be at my horniest. I have already decided that therapy is the best thing to look forward to, and in the agonising wait for that, I spend hours and hours on forums seeking advice. Sadly, none of it is applicable to me because of the devastating birth defects I acquired thanks to the complete irresponsibility of my Indian parents in not making me the 6-foot Caucasian I know I was meant to be. *
Hawt.
Curiously, of the thousands of words generously offered to you in this thread the only advice you’ve immediately taken to is removing your signature.
Bravo, R3d, bravo. That’ll make all the difference in expanding your narcissistic, micro view of the world.
A lot of confidence but mostly just being really good at it. I’ve always considered myself quite charming and good at dating and I never picked up some woman I spotted out of thin air. It seems way too hard. All my best success was with women I met at very friendly environments, usually after being introduced by mutual friends. I know you don’t have a lot of friends right now, but that’s what worked for me. It’s like the opposite of your approach. Your friend introduces you saying “Oh have you met Fuzzy Dunlop? He’s a good egg. He spends his Saturday evenings helping lonely teenagers on the Internet!”. Suddenly instead of a stranger, you’re a mutual friend and they know something positive about you.
Not everyone is witty. The point I was making is that you can’t expect to date someone and hide the fact that you hate who you are. It’s impossible.
My hypothetical was supposed to mirror your reality, and I don’t believe for a second that you would mention it once and let it go. Having a girlfriend isn’t going to change the fact that you don`t like some fundamental things about yourself. You’ll be intimidated making friends, you’ll be intimidated giving group presentations in college, you’ll hate interviewing for jobs as a short Indian man.
I don’t think they’re lying, I think there is no reason to suspect they know what they’re talking about. If you were obese, would you go on the Web and ask a bunch of people who’ve failed at losing weight the secret to success?
If you wanted to be financially responsible, would you ask a bunch of bankrupt debtors how to manage money well?
The real perk of your situation is that women are human beings with the ability to communicate. You can’t ask adipose tissue the best way to get rid of it or ask your 401(k) how to invest in it. You can literally sit down with a woman and ask her what she and her friends think about height.
It just doesn’t seem to mean anything to you that everyone has their own insecurities that seem just as important to us as being short and Indian seems to you.
Heh, I don’t play chess anymore. I used to play and study chess for a while a couple years ago and played in a couple USCF tournaments but then lost interest.
Didn’t I already say that the hair issue is resolved?
Some of the advice, as Fuzzy Dunlop said, is currently not applicable. More on this later.
But okay, you’re right. More or less this is what is going on with me. However, that’s what you are picking up because I am being extremely transparent with my thoughts and feelings here. It’s almost certain that no one in real life that I meet will have actually read this stuff about me and identify me and say, “Oh yeah, he’s that dude,” and pick up on even half of this description.
No, I did say that once school starts I plan to involve myself in at least one social group and in general attend more school events like soccer games for example, and also try and be more social at the things I already attend. I am also planning on getting therapy as people advised. I have already greatly improved my outer appearance. Also, the advice on cold approach is currently not applicable because that’s jut not a viable method of meeting women right now. I am also trying to understand what is wrong with my view on relationships.
And narcissistic? How? That means to excessively love oneself. I am the opposite of that.
And I was saying that even if I didn’t hate who I was, I probably wouldn’t have a good comeback simply because I suck at quick wit.
Because those insecurities are nowhere near as detrimental as being short. Indian, I’d say is just like any other insecurity, maybe a little more detrimental than average, but it has been confirmed that height is the most important physical trait in a man. Similar to how weight is for women. I would consider an obese woman of an ethnicity that is generally the least attractive to men the female equivalent of my situation. Except I wouldn’t date her because there would be no physical attraction. Shallow, I know, but we all are. It’s human nature. I don’t blame women for being shallow, or anyone for that matter. I think everyone is entitled to be somewhat physically attracted to their romantic partner, even her (and me). That’s why I don’t actually blame women for not being attracted to short men. I blame evolution.
Look at this. In fact, the author of that article thinks that short men have it even worse than overweight women, but in my opinion, I’d say they are equivalent.
One third of American women are overweight and another third are obese. Most of them have somehow landed a man. If being short is equivalent, then logically we can conclude that being short is not much of an impediment. Obsessing over it and letting it ruin your life, on the other hand, will really set you back.
How are you narcissistic?!? Narcissism is characterised by extreme self-centeredness and self-absorption, with fantasies involving unrealistic goals, an excessive need for attention, and disturbed interpersonal relationships - that’s how. It has nothing to do with love - it has to do with obsession - learn that difference and you may begin to “…understand what is wrong with my view on relationships.”
Anyway, you can’t have a view. You’ve never had one. And you might want to lower that lofty bar a bit - you’re 16. You’re not going to be approaching “women” you’re going to be approaching “girls.”
Too bad you don’t play chess anymore. It made you seem just a little bit less boring.
I don’t know, or particularly care, who Evan Marc Katz is. But look, just go into your nearest trashy night club (if you live in a reasonable size city or college town), identify the chubbier women, and observe if they’re all standing over by the wall looking sad, or if they’re pairing off with men. Sometimes quite muscular, cute, high-status, rich, or conventionally ‘attractive’ in other ways. I think you might be surprised. It may take an overweight woman longer, and more ‘approaches’ to snag a man, but quite a lot of them manage it.
Now, if you’re 16, you can’t get into a nightclub to see for yourself. but that’s rather the point, when you get a couple more years life experience you may start to realize that life and relationship dynamics are a bit more complicated than you think right now.
Personally, I have pretty narrow ‘attraction’ ranges in some regards, but I don’t really care about weight per se.
Your narcissism and your sclerosis of the fun gland make you boring. Your inability to shift focus makes you boring. Your unending need to analyse and define make you boring. Your erroneous comparisons make you boring. Telling you how boring you are is boring.
Oh, bullpucky. The only people you’ve mentioned approaching are random girls–the only things you apparently know about them is that a) they are within your school, and b) you think they’re “cute.”
Newsflash, kid: you don’t fall in love with someone just because they’re physically proximate, or even just because they’re “cute” or “pretty.”
First off, it doesn’t really matter if you’re into or not into casual sex, because you’re not getting any sex, period. But this is bullpucky too. When you talk about your “crushes,” you never once mention anything about personality. If all you care about is appearance, that relationship is about nothing but sex.
The fact that you keep using lines like “he’s got ‘mad game’” in sheer admiration makes me cringe. Who talks like that? You’re clearly a would-be PUA. You don’t think of female human beings as human beings; they’re just future notches on your currently virgin bedpost.
Yeah, uh, y’know dude, this is your problem. Who the heck are you to want to date above your weight class (so to speak)? Apparently, according to you, it’s not like the only girls you can’t attract are the little flibbertigibbets with the gorgeous clear skin and lustrous blonde hair and big (but only just big enough) breasts and tiny waists; you’re not even attracting the uggos, either! You need to eliminate appearance as a qualification of “who is worthy of me to talk to?” because you’re not attracting anyone, not even as a friend. So stop thinking about physical attraction. You need to learn how to make [del]girls[/del] people like you, regardless of attraction.
So let’s talk about how we hyoo-mans engage each other.
You play the violin. That’s actually damn lucky because plenty of girls play violin, which means if you’re in an orchestra you’ll usually be playing in the same section, so have reasons to interact with them. Are you in the orchestra at school, or a band? Are there any after-school musical theater productions where you could play in the pit? Is there a student orchestra anywhere in your town? Heck, could you start a chamber orchestra of your own?
Assuming some group does exist, once you join, now you’ll have a bunch of conversation topics of mutual interest with your fellow section members, girls or guys: the pieces you’re rehearsing, getting the most natural-sounding vibrato or purest tone (or whatever your own weakness might be), your conductor’s awesomeness or lack thereof, your assignments, your upcoming concerts. Find a girl who seems warm/friendly (regardless of her looks), and give her a little nod and smile when you start recognizing each other. (You should be doing this with everyone, actually, but I’m focusing on the girls for now.)
Your fellow orchestra members are part of your team now. Ask them how long they’ve been playing. Tell them how long you’ve been playing. Joke about stuff related to what your all doing. Like, “damn, this piece is dull, we just keep repeating A’s every five minutes. Might as well be cellists!” (Snarking on other instruments is always bonding material. Let’s face it, violinists are the sopranos of the orchestra world–they almost always get the best melodies!)
Once you start talking over several rehearsals, you can mention other stuff you’re into. Maybe that warm, friendly but not gorgeous girl in orchestra’s into DOTA2 rather than LoL, and the pair of you can get into huge funny arguments about how much each other’s favored game sucks. Or if she’s never played a game, even better: introduce her to co-op play via Portal 2. Explain that it’s a really cute game with great music and funny as hell. If you can invite her over to play, you’ll have a great time: lighthearted but warped humor is all part of the game, and forcing each other into infinite portals (or getting smashed in a crusher) is immense fun. Laughing together is… well, it’s a huge part of relationships of all kinds.
“BUT SHE’S NOT CUTE!” you say. “I WANT ROMANCE, NOT FRIENDSHIP!” First, we’ve already covered the fact that you’re not dripping in friends, so shouldn’t push away anyone who’s willing to be your friend.
Second, believe it or not, it’s possible to actually become physically attracted to people once you get to know them. That bump on her nose starts to become endearing, because it’s hers. Her pudgy figure starts feeling cozy next to yours instead of gross. Maybe you start finding her laugh sexy, especially since she herself is funny and makes you laugh, too. Her intelligences engages your attention and you find yourself looking forward to hearing her opinion on stuff you both like, or stuff you might disagree on.
Maybe you’ll admire how musical she is, how intensely she concentrates when she plays that Vivaldi concerto, and you might start to think it’s actually kinda hot that she puts so much energy and emotion into her playing, the way her whole body (yeah, even though it’s too skinny/too fat) gets involved in the piece. Or if you’re playing LoL together, maybe her competitive streak makes her eyes sparkle and you’re impressed by how surprisingly aggressive this wallflower can be–her confidence is suddenly rather… well, compelling.
Meanwhile, if you’re showing her your own passion about music and intelligence about chess or history or whatever, she might like how you’re both the same height because it feels so comfortable and you can look each other in the eye, she might dig your dark eyes and complexion. She might find the fact that you’re not a “player” charming. Your soft hair will be an asset when she wants to run her hands through it, so I’d go easy on the gel.
Or, y’know what? Maybe all this won’t turn into romance. Maybe you’ll just be good friends. But is that horrible? Right now, dude, you’re not exactly so friend-wealthy that you should turn up your nose at having a non-romantic relationship with a girl.
The way you’re going about things now, you will never experience any of these kinds of revelations, because none of the things you appear to be noticing about girls has anything to do with who she is. It’s only what she looks like that matters. And if that’s all that matters to you, you are boring. Plus, get ready for rejection, because most likely you’re out of your league.
On behalf of all formerly overweight teen girls, let me just say thank you for your oh-so-gracious and compassionate commiseration. Also, short teen guys who won’t look twice at the overweight girls… by the time they get to college and the curves become more adult and hourglassy, y’all will wish you had a piece of that when you could’ve.
It’s not the 20 year sentence that’d put them off, Hector_St_Clare, it’d be the overriding compulsion to buy the poor little fella some specially padded head gear.
It’s good that you, as a sophomore, didn’t get more; statistically, two-eyed men are 200 times more likely to date one-eyed men. Not because (as R3d insists) human beings (and particularly women, it seems) are shallow, but because their monocular vision means they literally miss seeing more than half the people in their immediate environment. A ‘blind spot’ if you will. So the only reason they don’t get to date as many times is because they don’t have as many chances to make interesting, or humorous conversation.
I’d give you a cite for that, but since R3d has been making up all sorts of bullshit statistics and facts, I thought I would too; you know, try and build a bit of rapport with the desperate little gnat. That, or organise that special, safety-buckled headwear for him.
Although it could be for me: because he’ll ask me what bullshit statistics and facts I’m referring to; and what mathematical equation best describes exactly how it is that you build rapport. It is at this point I will smack my head against the brick wall to my right a number of times, and very, very hard.
If you don’t know what’s erroneous about a) comparing yourself to other people, and b) equating a pubescent male to an obese woman, then I’m adding “incommodious” to my list.
Stuff it, I’ll add it anyway.
And note that Hector_St_Clare’s dream of having no eye is a thousand times more creative, intriguing, and fearless than your prosaic 6-foot-white-guy one.
choie, first date with Rd3 is like talking to a brick wall. The second and third pity dates are tolerable if you smack your head up against it to break the monotony.
I know, I know, and I don’t plan on doing more than wading in before running back to shore. It’s just really bugged me that he never references girls’ personalities (and neither have many of the others giving him advice), he finds himself hideous but feels entitled to date some nymphet cheerleader, and he keeps mentioning his friggin’ violin yet doesn’t refer to being in any group activities with it. I mean, instruments can be played solo, but he doesn’t seem to enjoy playing his instrument all alone, so…
Aw heck fill in the salacious double entendre of your choice.
But I must say you’ve been performing a public service with your frank posts. That online ad was a thing of beauty.
Yes, choie, he may be a decent violinist, but it seems he’s not a practiced fiddler.
And there’s 22 future therapy sessions we’ve just cheated him out of.
Got to admit, I don’t get it either - the total lack of interest in personality - I hadn’t particularly noticed it in the posters, but certainly had with R3d. I figured that he looks in all wrong places for all the wrong things, so why would that be any different, eh?
This one-dimensional view of attraction he has means he might as well flick through a magazine and pick out the ones he …hey, now there’s an idea…
