I understand what you mean by every question except the bolded. What are you referring to here? What is wrong with my ideas about relationships?
Thank you, 6, Fuzzy, and Bob, for saying the things I’ve been wanting to say.
R3d, honestly, you aren’t ready for a relationship right now. Harsh words, but true. I wonder what you would do if you actually got a date or a girlfriend. You are coming across as the dog that barks at the cat through the fence, but once the gate is opened and the dog can approach the cat, it doesn’t know what to do.
I’m going to snip from your previous posts and bold the parts that have the hair on the back of my neck standing straight up:
If you seriously can’t see what’s wrong with these quotes, then there’s nothing that one or two or fifty threads like this is going to be able to teach you.
You are dehumanizing half of the population. In your mind, it’s not about “I like X girl for who she is” or even “I’m interested in making friends in order to brighten my life and make me more connected to the world.” It’s “I WANT A GIRLFRIEND SO THAT I DON’T MISS OUT ON MY HORNY YEARS.” Like if you don’t get a woman to wet your dick in NOWNOWNOW, at 25 your penis falls off and you’re out of luck for the rest of your life. Even if you’re prettying it up in your head as ‘I want sunshine and roses and rainbows and picnics in the field and that ONE TWOO WUV,’ you’ve repeatedly made a huge deal out of the fact that these are your horny years and you want to make the most of it. If you want to take advantage of these years in that way, buy yourself a monthly subscription to a prostitute service. If you want to date girls, become the person they want to date. And that’s not going to happen by watching pickup artists (yes, I watched your linked videos, and I promise you that the majority were set up and the rest resulted in mostly fake phone numbers).
Also, the fact that you keep insisting that “everyone” experiences sex/romance between the ages of 16 and 25 shows that you’re not really reading the responses in your threads. There are a number of folks who have told of their personal experiences with finding love later in life, and it’s just as powerful and amazing (and probably better for all involved) because they had a chance to become more themselves before becoming part of a couple.
One more:
The fact that you can’t cements the point that you’re not interested in girls for what they can contribute on a grander scale; you’re only interested in them for the fact that they’ll check off a box on your life list. That’s not what we’re here for.
So how do I get ready for a relationship? I do plan on getting therapy as soon as possible (which may take months to acquire).
My self-hatred began in mid February. Reading this is what triggered it:
[QUOTE=some guy on yahoo answers]
I am a full grown male, almost 19 years old, and I’m only 5’7. I hate it. All my friends are about 6 feet tall, I see all these people around on the street who are all much taller than I am.
There are dozens of papers and research that shows that taller men are more attractive to women, more successful, more confident etc. I have been told numerous times by women that “If you were half a foot taller than we could date”. Why? Why do I need to be taller? Why can’t you just accept me for my height?
I see all these tall guys that just seem to love life, and I know it isn’t because they are tall, it’s that because they’re tall they don’t need to think about this ****. It isn’t constantly on their mind. I walk down the street and every person that I walk by is a reminder of how short I am. Even normal sized or petite woman, both in which are smaller than me, prefer guys that are 6 feet tall. Normal sized guys are larger than me. Do you understand what it’s like to be a man run in a world dominated by the patriarch, where masculinity reigns supreme, and be less “manly” than the AVERAGE man? It’s hopelessness.
The worst part about it is that people assume, before even knowing me, that because I’m short I have “napoleon complex”. First of all, that doesn’t exist! It’s not a real thing! Whenever I meet knew people they already have preconceived ideas of what I’m like just because I’m short. And because of this, anything that I do will not be because I’m actually a guy who just likes to talk to people, it must be because I need to prove myself as a short man! I need to work 3 times as hard to prove myself as a guy who is taller than me, even if he’s less physically attractive.
That brings me to the final thing; I’m NOT ugly. I’m actually better looking than most other men. Girls have told me “if you were half a foot taller you’d be a ten”. Do you know what that feels like? It’s like God played a practical joke on me; ‘Hey let’s give this guy a nice face so that he can HOPE that women will be attracted to him but make him short so he always gets knocked down! HA!’ I have literally tried dozens of times; I engage in conversation, I listen, Im not afraid to give my opinion on things but EVERY SINGLE TIME IT’S THE SAME DAMN THING! I know some of you will say not to base this around women but what is an animal that can’t attract a mate? As much as you might hate to admit it happiness is directly related to sexual attraction and I don’t have any because I’m short. I’ve placed as a finalist in a New York’s Composition Competition ( didn’t win but still!). I write music because it was the only thing in the world that made me happy, but now I’m starting to lose interest in even that because it doesn’t shake the fact that women don’t care how talented you are if you’re short.
My friends understand my pain and they tried to help me when we went to a party one time, they basically made me out to be a great guy, and then when I was walking down the hall to the bathroom I heard two girls talking about me who were in there. You know what one of them said? “He’s cute but he’s kinda short, I’m not gonna hook up with him”. I went home immediately and just lied on my bed looking at the ceiling for hours, that was when I knew there’s isn’t any hope.
I thought that once high school ended this **** would end. It didn’t. People are just as if not MORE biased against short men in the real world than they were in high school.
My growth plates are closed, Im not growing anymore. I have fantasies about being six feet tall and it makes me happy for a moment until I realize that it’s not going to happen.
I know I’m going to get a lot of people who are going to flame me for being a whiner. Please try to understand where I’m coming from. I’ve only been with 2 girls in my life. I have had crushes on so many girls and getting rejected every time because of this thing that I have no control over and can’t fix just makes me really sad. It makes me want to die just so I don’t have to think about this **** anymore.
[/QUOTE]
Source: https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130810193023AAiEbnf
I just wanted to share this with you because reading this is what really got to me in mid-February. I read this and I thought, “****, I am ****ed.” See, look this guy is still 3.5 inches taller than me, out of high school which is supposedly supposed to make things better, 10/10 facial aesthetics, talented, and can actually talk to women unlike me. He also doesn’t mention his race, so I’ll assume he’s white. And he can’t get a girlfriend.
I would enjoy it like everyone else and be appeased.
Sorry, I didn’t see bobkitty’s post when this was typed. I will respond to him or her in the next post.
Well I want to experience sex with someone that I love, not just random girls. That’s the thing. But like I said, it’s not just about sex for me. That’s why I am not into casual sex and actually want a girlfriend. There’s a reason that I mentioned that I want to experience both “sex” and “romance” and explained the romantic side of things and why that makes having a girlfriend seem like the best thing ever. I also heard that those horny years are also the most emotionally powerful. However, if you say that it’s just as powerful after 25, then yeah, I guess it doesn’t matter then. But like I said, it wasn’t just about missing out on these years. It’s also about desire and how if you want something, you want it as soon as possible. And what I meant by “everyone” was “the average Joes”. The average Joe does experience sex/romance between 16-25, right?
And yeah, sorry to say, but I don’t actually see what is wrong with all those parts you bolded.
Or didn’t (instead of "don’t) for some of them.
Between 16 and 25 I had a girlfriend who I “settled” for. It was totally not worth it, and I felt guilty about it even though she was seeing someone else very quickly after we broke up. I did learn not to let being desperate make me willing to date someone I had zero in common with. If I count correctly, I had 3 dates between 22 and 29. I’m very familiar with almost everything you’re feeling, aside from the height and ethnicity (which are almost certainly the least of your problems). Everything else I’m seeing, that was me from 16 to 29. I remember well enough that I know it is extremely unlikely anything any of us on this board can say will make any difference. It didn’t to me; I remember all too having the same conversation over and over with friends, who were thankfully tolerant enough to hear the same crap over and over from me. I felt like you did pretty much constantly for over a decade. It sucked, but I got through it. If I had gotten help sooner, I almost certainly would have avoided a lot of it. And the fact that I’m married doesn’t necessarily mean that I would do any better if I were to go back in time knowing what I know now. If your case is severe as mine was, and I’m not convinced it is, you’ve got to get help.
You’re quoting random guys on YahooAnswers and basing your mental health on them? You’re right… there’s really no hope for your romantic future. :smack:
Jockeys get mad tail. Maybe you should see if there’s a barn you can volunteer at nearby. Bruno Mars is 5’5" and gets panties thrown at him everywhere he goes. How about switching to guitar?
P-man, I just want to take a moment to thank you for your consolation throughout this thread. It also helps to receive advice from someone who has felt like I do for such a long time. And yes, I am planning on getting help in the near future as I said earlier.
Anyway, so are you guys implying that I should not settle? That’s interesting because I thought men were traditionally told to lower their standards and such but women are the ones that are told to “never settle”? You’re also telling me to not keep dating a girl because I want a girlfriend but because I actually like her?
Let me illustrate what I mean by “ready to settle”. Now, let’s say I was dating two girls. One is very physically attractive but I have no connection with her; the other is only somewhat physically attractive but I have a great connection with her. I will pick the latter in that case. However, what I was trying to say is if the former is all I can get, then I will also take that. That’s what I meant by “ready to settle”, that as long as a girl is at least reasonably physically attractive, even if I have no connection with her, I would still continue to date her if there were no better (for me) options. Is that wrong?
You can feel free to do that, but recognize that we have words for that kind of person. A lot of which we’ve either implied or outright used in this thread.
I said how I felt when I did it. Even though the woman affected moved on quickly to someone else, it wasn’t fair to either of us. I decided that I preferred being lonely but still being able to look at myself in the mirror.
You also said that girls subconsciously pick up on this, which is also detrimental?
Also, I am not sure what words you actually use to describe people like me.
16 year olds can’t settle. It doesn’t make any sense. You certainly can’t settle before you’ve ever been on a date.
Your hypothetical situation involves picking between a gorgeous woman you don’t feel a connection with or a pretty woman you do. I’m sorry to be blunt but we’ve already established that right now nobody wants to date you, let alone pretty or gorgeous women. You’re focusing on things that are pretty much nonsensical at this point in your life.
Keep working on yourself and eventually you’ll be ready to date, but at this point settling would mean playing your violin all day alone.
I only mentioned that because we were talking about me not wanting to date because I actually like said girl but because I want to check off a box.
Also, I wouldn’t want to date a girl unless I personally was at least somewhat physically attracted to her. Physical attraction is what separates romantic relationships from friendships.
But anyway, “work on yourself” is very general. How specifically should I work on myself? Not that I have no idea, but I want to know what you have in mind when you say this.
Physical attraction is only one thing that separates romantic relationships and friendships. You made a similar mistake earlier - you were complaining that your last crush didn’t have feelings for you, even though you had treated her politely like a friend.
If you treat someone like a friend they are going to learn to think of you like a friend. Being physically attracted to someone isn’t going to help you land a girlfriend.
You could work on yourself in so many ways. You could go through months of deep psychoanalytic therapy and completely rebuild your damaged inner child, or you could get a haircut and new shoes. They’re not mutually exclusive options either.
Personally I think a good question to have in the back of your head is “Would I honestly want to spend time with me, or be with me in a relationship?” It’s pretty clear you wouldn’t, so start by thinking of a way to change that. You can’t get taller or stop being Indian so you’re going to have to look deeper.
By the way, I know you’re desperate for a girlfriend so this thought experiment might fall flat, but… Say you finally land a girlfriend. She’s a tall Jew and she hates both those things about herself, even though nobody else cares or even notices. She has obsessive thoughts about how she would do anything to have a boyfriend, except go out and meet people while trying fun new activities. She probably doesn’t even realize that you have your own insecurities, and when she talks about how much she hates being Jewish and tall, it just solidifies your fear that she’s only with a short Indian because she can’t do any better.
Do you think you’d be happy with her, or does dating her sound miserable?
Well actually I didn’t really get to talk to her much anyway. But I was actually going to bring this up again. About that…the thing is that they don’t even view me as a friend. That’s the point I was trying to make. I am so bad at talking to girls somehow that I can’t even get friendzoned. That’s what I was complaining about. The fact that girls most of the time aren’t even friendly back. A lot of times, girls will behave like that because sometimes the guy might be coming off as creepy to them if he tries to flirt with them or will behave like that so as to instantly reject him. I was saying that I don’t even flirt, and just try to be friendly (at least early on until I know that she’s open to talk to me) and they are still indifferent.
As I said, I am planning on getting the therapy in the near future. I have also over the past few months greatly improved my outer appearance and got a lot of new clothes and stuff and do my hair better.
Except that I wouldn’t talk about how I hate being short and Indian with a girl. And one thing to remember is that school’s out right now and a lot of things that I attend regularly are currently not in session in the summer. I am volunteering at this summer camp and museum, but I can’t really do much right now. When school starts, I do plan on joining at least one social group like I said. I also plan on attending things like soccer games or other events a little more next year. Last school year, I did make an effort to talk to girls and actually asked out/made a move on a few girls. Sometimes and with some girls I did actually try and flirt with them a little (through complimenting their appearance - that’s how I flirt); again, the girls I flirted with a little were the ones who were at least open to talking to me like normal and weren’t indifferent/making it difficult for me to talk to them.
Dating her wouldn’t be miserable, as long as she didn’t obsess over being tall and Jewish out loud. She can be as insecure as she wants to on the inside, but as long as she’s not bugging me about it, I don’t really care. And like I said, if I was to date a girl, I wouldn’t actually talk about my insecurities.
Also, another thing a short guy is actually the male equivalent of an overweight girl, not a tall girl. And Jewish people are often white anyway, so that’s kind of a bad comparison. Most people don’t actually view tall girls as much different or noticeably less physically attractive, because they aren’t. But people actually notice that, “Wow he’s short…” Do you normally hear about tall girls being made fun of in the media? Now compare that with how much short guys are ridiculed in the media.
Adding on to the first paragraph, basically I didn’t flirt with her because she wasn’t even open to talking to me as a friend. And actually I did subtly flirt. I complimented her sweater and told her that her hair is pretty. I think part of the problem is that I don’t actually know how to flirt. All I am comfortable doing is giving somewhat flirtatious compliments. But the whole teasing and getting her to laugh and feel attraction part of flirting…I don’t know how to do. But as I and others said, if I could actually at least talk to girls in a platonic manner naturally, the flirting part would come easier.
A lot of people have been giving you really valid and well meaning advice that I personally think isn’t applicable to you yet. Obviously they feel differently. As far as I can tell you literally don’t no how to approach a woman. As long as you keep walking up to women who have no idea who you are and start asking them questions, you’re doomed from the moment you sidle up to them. They’re not going to be friendly back - it’s creepy.
That’s good.
I have known lots of whiny desperate mopes and they have all insisted that when they’re out meeting women, the women miraculously can’t tell their true mopey nature. I’m sure that you honestly believe that, but to everybody else it’s just ludicrous.
You need to figure out how to talk to people in a non-creepy way and THEN figure out how to flirt. I don’t think complimenting someone’s appearance qualifies as flirting.
So your idea of dating is deliberately having absolutely no honesty or intimacy with someone?
It’s not a bad comparison. Your obsession with being short and Indian is annoying and tiresome. Nobody cares you’re short and Indian except you. Telling everyone who brings up their own teenage shortcomings that they pale in comparison to being a short Indian is obnoxious. Just because you’re obsessed with something doesn’t mean it’s universal. This is why dating the neurotic tall Jew would be so miserable.
Exactly. There’s a lot of great advice here, but it’s currently not applicable.
So how should I approach if I am going to go up to a woman who has no idea who I am?
Well how can they tell if I am not acting like that when I am actually out talking to girls?
Exactly - it doesn’t. That’s what I was trying to say.
Keeping insecurities to yourself is classified as dishonesty and lack of intimacy?
Well as I said before countless times, it’s not like I am actually expressing this obsession when I am out with girls or intend to do so. And the bolded just can’t be true. Height is the most physical trait in a man to women. Why else would so many men be complaining about being short and getting rejected for that reason? And race matters quite a bit to a lot of girls too. That’s a whole separate beast.
And maybe it’s not a bad comparison, but it’s certainly not the correct equivalent of my situation.