This is something in your comment that rather struck me, and I think it’s symptomatic of a deeper problem in your approach. You ‘wouldn’t care’ if you were dating an unhappy/insecure person, as long as she concealed it? Really?
Speaking personally, I would view dating such a person as an opportunity to try to fix that person’s insecurities, and make them feel better about themselves. I suppose I’m sort of drawn to insecure women for that very reason.
The reason I bring this up is because in all that you’ve been saying here, you talk a lot about what you expect to GET from a relationship, but very little about what you expect to GIVE. I think of all the advice you’ve been getting here, some of it is good and some of it isn’t. I don’t think the stuff about intangible confidence, cold approaches, etc. is all that helpful. Confidence can be learned, or in some cases chemically induced, though you’re probably too young for anti-anxiety medications right now; chatting up people you just met can sometimes work quite well, and in any case is a useful skill to learn; and becoming a good conversationalist is a skill that you can work on through practice, as much as playing the violin. I do think that your critics are right though that you have a basic problem with your approach to relationships. Dating is, or should be, an exchange, where each of you is bringing something to the table, and providing something the other person wants. What are you providing, exactly? What do you hope to do for the person you want to date- what should be appealing about you? And if the answer is ‘nothing’, then you should work on developing some aspects of yourself that make you more appealing as someone that they would potentially want to date.
I wanted to date them to see if there was more than just physical attraction.
This is because I wasn’t able to get to know her personally. I was interested in who she was as a person and that’s why I wanted to date her. You may ask, “Why not do that before you date?” The reason is, like I said, they were random girls who I didn’t really have much of a chance to talk to in school. That’s why I wanted to take them out somewhere where we could actually talk.
Yes, I attend several orchestras during the year, including the one at school.
My stand partner for the last couple of months of last year was actually a girl I wasn’t really physically attracted to. But I talked to her regardless, as you said, just like that. We were actually kind of becoming friends.
That’s why I also said that I will make more of an effort to socialize at the orchestras I attend next year because for the majority of last year I didn’t really talk to as many people as I think I could and should have.
I think part of the problem was that I was afraid to mention that I was into LoL. In other words, show them who I am and what I am into.
I think this is partly the reason why I didn’t get past the “acquaintance zone” with anyone - was too afraid to open up myself.
I agree with you and I actually would be willing to date her as long as there was just some physical attraction. Basically, what I was trying to say is if I want to date a girl, I want to at least have some noticeable physical attraction to her. If not, I am still willing to be friends with her. I actually do want friends too.
Yes, you’re right. That can happen.
I agree. You’re right…
The way you’re going about things now, you will never experience any of these kinds of revelations, because none of the things you appear to be noticing about girls has anything to do with who she is. It’s only what she looks like that matters. And if that’s all that matters to you, you are boring. Plus, get ready for rejection, because most likely you’re out of your league.
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Personality does matter to me. I was just saying that for me to be romantically interested in a girl, I want to have at least a little physical attraction to her. If I don’t, I am still more than happy to be friends with her.
That was actually a great post choie that is helping me see things through a different light.
Except, I wouldn’t actually act like this on a date.
Not really. See above.
Speaking personally, I would view dating such a person as an opportunity to try to fix that person’s insecurities, and make them feel better about themselves. I suppose I’m sort of drawn to insecure women for that very reason.
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Actually, I agree with you. I would want to try to make them feel better about themselves.
It’s a little difficult to reduce to words. It also varies a lot depending on the people. It is an important thing to figure out though.
In my opinion though, a lot of the sad lonely men out there who complain that women only want to be their friends get in that boat because they have no idea how to flirt. You can’t talk to a woman you want to date the same way you would a man or a woman you want to be friends with.
Yes, it’s totally possible to come on too strong too, and plenty of men do, but there are a whole lot of guys with a very different problem.
In your case I strongly suggest you just work on being friendly and making regular conversation. You need to crawl before you can walk.
And definitely don’t look up any of that pick up artist crap. They’re just going to be detrimental.
Saying that height doesn’t matter as much as confidence and social skills is all fine and dandy and does make sense. It’s just that I don’t understand how if that’s the case then this guy can have such bad luck:
[QUOTE=some guy on Yahoo! Answers]
I am a full grown male, almost 19 years old, and I’m only 5’7. I hate it. All my friends are about 6 feet tall, I see all these people around on the street who are all much taller than I am.
There are dozens of papers and research that shows that taller men are more attractive to women, more successful, more confident etc. I have been told numerous times by women that “If you were half a foot taller than we could date”. Why? Why do I need to be taller? Why can’t you just accept me for my height?
I see all these tall guys that just seem to love life, and I know it isn’t because they are tall, it’s that because they’re tall they don’t need to think about this ****. It isn’t constantly on their mind. I walk down the street and every person that I walk by is a reminder of how short I am. Even normal sized or petite woman, both in which are smaller than me, prefer guys that are 6 feet tall. Normal sized guys are larger than me. Do you understand what it’s like to be a man run in a world dominated by the patriarch, where masculinity reigns supreme, and be less “manly” than the AVERAGE man? It’s hopelessness.
The worst part about it is that people assume, before even knowing me, that because I’m short I have “napoleon complex”. First of all, that doesn’t exist! It’s not a real thing! Whenever I meet knew people they already have preconceived ideas of what I’m like just because I’m short. And because of this, anything that I do will not be because I’m actually a guy who just likes to talk to people, it must be because I need to prove myself as a short man! I need to work 3 times as hard to prove myself as a guy who is taller than me, even if he’s less physically attractive.
That brings me to the final thing; I’m NOT ugly. I’m actually better looking than most other men. Girls have told me “if you were half a foot taller you’d be a ten”. Do you know what that feels like? It’s like God played a practical joke on me; ‘Hey let’s give this guy a nice face so that he can HOPE that women will be attracted to him but make him short so he always gets knocked down! HA!’ I have literally tried dozens of times; I engage in conversation, I listen, Im not afraid to give my opinion on things but EVERY SINGLE TIME IT’S THE SAME DAMN THING! I know some of you will say not to base this around women but what is an animal that can’t attract a mate? As much as you might hate to admit it happiness is directly related to sexual attraction and I don’t have any because I’m short. I’ve placed as a finalist in a New York’s Composition Competition ( didn’t win but still!). I write music because it was the only thing in the world that made me happy, but now I’m starting to lose interest in even that because it doesn’t shake the fact that women don’t care how talented you are if you’re short.
My friends understand my pain and they tried to help me when we went to a party one time, they basically made me out to be a great guy, and then when I was walking down the hall to the bathroom I heard two girls talking about me who were in there. You know what one of them said? “He’s cute but he’s kinda short, I’m not gonna hook up with him”. I went home immediately and just lied on my bed looking at the ceiling for hours, that was when I knew there’s isn’t any hope.
I thought that once high school ended this **** would end. It didn’t. People are just as if not MORE biased against short men in the real world than they were in high school.
My growth plates are closed, Im not growing anymore. I have fantasies about being six feet tall and it makes me happy for a moment until I realize that it’s not going to happen.
I know I’m going to get a lot of people who are going to flame me for being a whiner. Please try to understand where I’m coming from. I’ve only been with 2 girls in my life. I have had crushes on so many girls and getting rejected every time because of this thing that I have no control over and can’t fix just makes me really sad. It makes me want to die just so I don’t have to think about this **** anymore.
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This is the one story that I read in mid-February and occasionally link to it because this is what electrified my insecurity over height and I still have yet to understand how this guy can fail so much if what all you guys (not just the people here on the SDMB - I have been on other forums too and they all say the same thing) say is true.
I had a similar story told to me by a teenage girl recently, in which a dude keeps ambling up to her and hitting on her. What was interesting about the story, and I think relevant here, is that the guy mostly seemed to be projecting what he wanted and expected onto this actual person. He’d ask questions, but not actually listen to the answers, and make assumptions about what the girl thought without actually knowing her at all. Then he’d give opinions that were what he expected her opinions to be.
The curious thing is, he’s apparently quite conservative - comes from money, flogs the servants, represses the poor - while she’s extremely liberal - secretly wishes she were transgender mixed race and lesbian, thinks we should convert the rich to soylent green.*
In other words, if he’d actually gotten to know her, he would have known they would never work out for 2 minutes, but he was never interested in her as an actual person, only as a girlfriend-target.
Take home messages:
Don’t project your expectations onto other people, find out about them instead.
Just get to know people. Talk with the person who shares your violin stand. Find out about them. Do the same for other people in your world. This isn’t just good practice for meeting girls, this is how you make friends.
Say hi to people. You’d be amazed at what a door-opener this is.
Don’t follow any of that pick up artist crap.
*These characterizations may be sliiightly exaggerated.
Luck has nothing to do with it. He sounds like an even bigger whiney mope than you. Can you really blame women for not wanting to date a guy with that attitude?
Would you want to date a cute woman with a small chest who spent all her time whining on the Internet about how great busty women have it and how crappy men are for not giving her a chance?
When I was 16 I found out I had a 50/50 chance of having inherited a degenerative genetic disorder that would’ve left me disabled by 40 and dead by 50. I spent most of my 20s trying to figure out how to build a meaningful relationship with someone without knowing if I even had a future. In all those years I was honestly never as whiney and mopey about my predicament as the two of you are about being shorter than average. I never let it keep me from dating and I never resented those healthy assholes who just seemed to love life.
In other words, your capacity for self pity is impressive and profoundly unattractive.
Because that guy is a pussy. Seriously; he went home “immediately” after hearing two random girls talking about him, and lay in bed for hours moping and probably wearing a hair shirt. How many other girls were at the party, maybe down a different hallway drawing straws to see who could ‘hook up’ with him? How many other people in general were there- maybe one of whom was scoping him out and thinking “Wow, he’s just my coworker’s type, I have to get his number!” It doesn’t matter now, because he decided that he was going to let two women (and how does he even know they were talking about him?) ruin his evening.
Can you see where your attitude, this guy’s attitude, and the other folks you raise your ‘poor unfortunate me’ lighter in solidarity with are acting out your own self-fulfilling prophecies? You don’t get girlfriends because no one wants to date a miserable insecure mope, not because you’re a minority or short. You’re putting out to the universe on an hourly basis how pathetically, miserably pitiful you are, and you’re shocked that the universe responds in ways that reinforce that belief.
I haven’t read through the entire thread, but has anyone suggested he join a band? There’s got to be a bluegrass or rockabilly group out there looking for a fiddler. Nothing will get you laid faster than being in a band, completely regardless of what you look like.
Yes, but look, he tried dozens of times, he said. That was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. He is whining after all those rejections that were solely caused because of his height. I mean he is tried many more times than me and girls even explicitly told him that it was because of his height.
Here I am, genuinely surprised that you guys don’t feel any sympathy for him. When I first read that, I felt really bad for him and still do. See, Fuzzy Dunlop, I don’t have a hard time empathizing.
And the reason reading his story makes me even more demoralized is that this is happening to a guy who is otherwise a great, talented person and 10/10 in looks not factoring in height. So it makes me think, “How in the world do I have a chance?”
It’s not empathy to feel sympathy for someone experiencing exactly the same thing as you are. It’s just a new way to revel in your own self pity.
You’re so confident you know all these things but there’s no real reason for it. He claims he was rejected only because he was short, but the only thing we actually know about the guy is that he’s a miserable whiny jerk. Maybe the girls specifically said they were rejecting him for his height because it seemed kinder than calling him an insufferable loser.
There is absolutely no reason to think that guy has anything going for him. He might be a great person deep down under all the entitlement and self pity, but what you showed us indicates he’s a grade A loser.
Yeah, he’s an entitled jerk. Women don’t have to date you just because you lost a writing contest. Women don’t even have to date winners of writing contests. It sucks big time, but that is the world we live in.
You’ve made that point clearly. I’m positive everyone who has called him a whiny jerk and a pussy was aware of that. I know I Was.
So you think his whining after all those rejections solely due to his height is not justified? What would you do if you were in his position?
And he was just trying to make a point that he’s attractive in other ways, looks even if you don’t include is height. He was trying to say that in spite of that, eomen are still rejecting him and that’s only because of his height. If he wasn’t short, then he would have gotten quite a few more dates.
Even then, I am not quite sure as to how that makes him a “jerk”.