I have a different answer, actually. And I base it on a time when I asked my husband how he could put up with X and Y about me. And his answer?
“I’m not ‘putting up with them’. Because they don’t bother me like they do you.”
There are days I “put up” with my kids. And my husband. I’m sure they feel the same way about me. There are lots and lots of days when I’m a happy person. But I do not, in general, perceive myself as “putting up with being married with children”. I choose to be married. I choose to stay with my children. I’m not “putting up with them”, because they dn’t bother me to the degree - even on the worst of days - that I would describe my life choices that way.
Possibly, somebody else might see me speaking in tones of hushed anger to my children in public places. But these same people would probably feel justified in a screaming rant in the BBQ pit about children like mine running rampant, and me being a careless mother who allows her children to act like little monsters, and where is society going, and some people shouldn’t be allowed to have children, and on and on. I don’t think it’s fair to expect the eternally-cheerful June Cleaver and the Von Trapp children. If I’m speaking in hushed or less-than-hushed anger, it’s because my children are not behaving in an acceptable manner, and I’m trying to impose some ettiquette on them. Can’t have it both ways, I’m afraid.
This in no way implies I am “putting up with them” in general. Only that I won’t put up with a certain behavior at that moment in time.
Oh, yeah, sure. I didn’t mean to imply everything was hunky-dorry until the kids came along. I just think a lot of people don’t put a lot of thought into how much of a lifestyle change that having children and raising them properly entails.
Engaged six weeks after we met, married for 26 years and three children.
I’ve had a fulfilling and reasonably successful career. I have friends who would gladly donate a kidney if I needed one. But I can tell you with complete honesty that there’s no relationship that even comes close to the one I’ve had with my wife, and there’s no moment of my career that compares with watching my children take their first steps, or graduate from high school.
Sure there are times when my wife and I would cheerfully agree to divorce – after we had taken turns beating the kids to death. There’s a lot of emotion in life, and sometimes it comes out in weird ways. But overall, it’s more than four good days out of seven. It’s more like 360 good days and five really crappy ones.
The mom’s I’m referring to are not disciplining their kids. They are angry, angry, angry. Yes, for the strangers in public I only see a snippet of their day. I don’t know what little Johnny was doing 10 minutes before, but I see a lot of parents just plain mad at their kids…all the time. I’m not sitting on my high horse here. I was one of those angry parents at one time. Constantly ragging on my stepson, even though his behavior was actually stellar for his age. It wasn’t his fault that he wasn’t performing up to my standards. It’s not something I’m particularly proud of today.
You’re also right about children’s mis-behavior being pit-worthy. The parents of these children are typically either (1) totally disconnected from reality that they don’t even notice that their kids are hell-hounds or (2) are sniping at them so much that the kids have put them on permanent ignore.
jimmmy, you have a very valid point. The patient moms aren’t likely to garner my attention in the checkout lane so my opinion is likely skewed.
I just think that many couples are disillusioned about the joys of child-rearing. They have an idea that this little bundle of joy will fix all the troubles in their already-strained relationship and when that doesn’t happen, they get mad.
Is it rewarding? Absolutely. Is it easy? Hell no. It’s one of the hardest things you’ll ever do. Some people simply aren’t cut out to be good parents just like some people aren’t cut out to be good brain surgeons. The only difference is that the unqualified will never wield a scalpel…
When God made the world, he spent a lot of time making the world beautiful. Putting in forests and mountains. Lakes and and streams and waterfalls. That sort of thing. He was nearly done but he had the area that is now known as Texas left to do and it was late so he decided to wait till the next day to do that part of the world. When he got up, he found that the land was all hard and flat and dried out and it would take a whole day to get this part of the world in to shape. Then he had an idea. “I know” God said “I’ll just make some people who will like it this way.” And that is how God created Texas and Texans.
Some people just like being married with children.
I think that TV tends to create a false impression of stroppy teenagers - or maybe we are just lucky. Our 15y.o. daughter has a few strops - often related to that time of the month - but they don’t last long. Case in point - she got mad when we said she couldn’t go to a “My Chemical Romance” concert with her friends 5 days after having her wisdom tooth removed under a general. She was convinced she could make it, and let us know all about it for a few days. Of course, after the op, she realised that it would not have worked. She was a bit upset when her friends texted her from the concert, but critical of the way they went to the concert with no clear plans for getting home afterwards. Smart kid, but it took a bit of work to instill in her the “we need to know how you are getting there and how you will get home safely” ethic.
And then when we booked tickets for her and two friends to see “Incubus” on her 16th birthday - priceless (but I wasn’t allowed to join them - damn).
Swings and round-abouts, but seeing an child develop into an independent smart adult is really great. And you have to take risks - to let them make their own decisions (but give them the tools/skills to make informed choices). I do see heartache in the future (I think all parents do), as they make choices that I don’t agree with, but I won’t ever stop loving and supporting them.
Given your history, I’d guess your perspective is particularly skewed — nothing makes a stronger impact on us than watching people who remind us of our own worst behaviors.
Personally, I rarely see “angry” parents as you describe. The grocery store is not a fair sampling ground, since no mother would willingly take 3 small children there. That mom is not on an outing, she’s on a deployment and not an easy one.
I don’t see so many angry people as just numb. Some of them have kids, plenty do not. It doesn’t seem like a pleasant way to go through life.
I can absolutely understand the attraction of having children, even though my wife and i have made our own decision not to have them. I see my friends with their kids, and its clear what they get out of it. Sure, it’s a lot of work, but i can also see that they feel their lives to be more complete and more enjoyable with children.
I like kids myself, but i’m just not interested in doing the whole parenting thing. My wife and i are very happy together, and we really don’t want or need the changes that having kids would bring. We discussed all this before we got married.
I guess there’s a certain amount of self-centeredness to this, but i don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think that, in our increasingly crowded world, the absence of my offspring is unlikely to be noticed or lamented, and i don’t think anyone should have kids unless they really know that they want them and will take care of them properly. Hell, i tend to agree with Gore Vidal that parenting should be a licensed activity.
I’ve seen this myself, so I don’t think it’s a perspective issue at all. There are people that are angry or frustrated that do take it out on their kids all the time. Maybe it’s a control or power issue. Their child may be one of the few things in their life they have ultimate control or power over and they take it out on them.
If they didn’t have a child, they’d probably kick their dog pretty regularly.
I was in a craft store the other day buying paints and I had to read the labels so I couldn’t make a quick getaway and there was a women that just went on and on harping at her 5 or 6 year old daughter loudly about schoolwork to her room. She just carried on non-stop all out of proportion or a sense of where they were or what she was doing to her daughter. The little girl stood there quietly and eventually she soundlessly started to cry. It was just terrible to witness and I debated about leaving the paint aisle or opening one of the jars and pouring it on her head. The bitch.
I know people that don’t abuse their kids, but seem to find no pleasure in having children at all. I have a cousin like this. She had one son and went through all sorts of fertility treatments to have another child and it just boggled my mind.
She’s not mean to her kids but I’ve never seen her laugh or really play with her kids or treat them as anything but an inconvenience. She went back to work about two weeks after she had both children and I can’t remember her ever spending a whole day with them. Fortunately her husband is different and I wonder if he talked her into having them because clearly it’s not something she enjoys.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, of course you’re right that it does – just that you probably notice it more than some people. Like when you buy a new car, and all of a sudden you notice how many of them there are on the road.
Your story from the hobby store makes me cry, I’m so sorry for that child. I hope that event was an aberration, and that she at least has other supportive adults in her life. Sometimes when I see a kid having a rough time of it, I’ll talk to him/her directly, but it’s not something you can always do.
/hijack
My MIL intervened once when we were at “Christmas at the Zoo” and some father was trying to spank his 3-yr-old & handling it so poorly as the kid twisted and turned in his heavy winter coat that he was basically smacking the shit out of him. I called it to her attention (by screaming hysterically, IIRC) and she tucked her purse under her arm, marched over to them and said “Can I be of some help?” She defused the situation & tried to negotiate w/the kid, who was tired & out too late & should’ve been home in bed, but grandma & grandpa were visiting, so they were out doing all the ritual “fun” stuff, yadda yadda.
Funny thing was, she was a fricking Social Worker with CPS at the time & could’ve reported him. She didn’t tell him who she was until the end, it probably scared the crap out of him once he realized what that meant. She didn’t report him b/c once he regained control of himself, it was clear to her that he was essentially a very competent parent who’d just had a really terrible moment.
Like Caridwen, I sometimes witness parent/child scenes that I’m tempted to intervene in. When I read this, I thought, “Hey yeah! I could impersonate a CPS worker!”
Just kidding. I’d never dare in a million years. But I do see worn-out kids and frazzled parents from time to time, and I almost want to step in…
The way I see it there are four types of people out there:
Those that don’t have kids, know they don’t want kids, and shouldn’t have kids.
Those that don’t have kids, would be great parents, and should have kids to make their lives more fulfilling.
Those that do have kids, suck as parents, and should have never had kids.
Those that do have kids, are great parents, and love being parents.
Those in group 1 should be happy, find out what make their life fulfilling, not listen to people who say they should have kids, and not put down people who do have kids.
Those in group 2 should come to the realization that kids would make them happy. They need to figure this out for themselves. Nobody should be pressuring them or telling them what to do.
Those in group 3, well, I feel sorry for them. They either caved to pressure or didn’t know what they were getting themselves into. They need to suck it up, be a good parent, and take responsibility for their kids.
Those in group 4 should be happy they found what makes their life fulfilling. But they should never be preachy and tell any other group that their way is the best way. Just cause it works for you doesn’t mean it works for everyone.
I think that the tolerability of marriage depends on who you’re married to. If you’re married to the right person, you can’t imagine living without them.
As to the kids – you just love them, that’s all. It’s definitely not easy to be a parent but once that love kicks in and the nurturing instincts take over…well, it’s just not as bad as it looks from the outside sometimes.
I got off the phone with SiWife - people we know have just become grandparents, because their 17y.o. son (and he seemed to be the smart, well behaved one) didn’t understand “contraception,” or “emergency contraception”.
:smack:
Cue a long discussion with my children on How babies happen, and how to avoid them. Like the plague. 'Cause they will ruin your LIFE :rolleyes:
Of course, my kids know the facts of life, but a discussion of the practicalities of pregnancy avoidance is needed. I would be disappointed if they had sex before marriage, but I would be far more upset if they chose to have sex and didn’t take any precautions to avoid pregnancy/STDs etc.
All deep and meaningful relationships involve exposing the most vulnerable parts of our being - marriage and parenting most of all. But to get the most incredible fuzzies out, you have to be prepared for the deepest hurts, too. You just got to work at making the fuzzies win.
I dont have kids. But my dad told me that having kids made him feel young.
I guess us kids were such rap-scalions that, with all the chasing around after us he had to do, it kept him fit, and kept him from becoming a couch potato.
I guess it depends on what you want to do with your life. If you a very career oriented (and a chronic over-worker and over-aheiver), than your not ready for kids yet.
I consider myself to be a “2a”: I don’t have kids, I think I could potentially be a pretty good parent, but I’m too afraid that my similarities to my own parents (who did a rather “C-” job) might replay in my own parenting experience, therefore I’m erring on the side of not having kids, because I would just hate if my own kids turned out having the issues that I do. Which is sad, but I think I’d rather be sad than be a C- parent and end up with messed up kids.
I am not an especially warm and fuzzy kind of guy. I never especially wanted kids. Not that I didn’t want them; I just didn’t think about them. We had them because Mrs. Slow wanted them. Now I have 5 (teenagers :eek: ) and they really are my reason for being. I think we are wired to adore our children, especially when young. Sure, no one can piss you off like someone you love, but it is impossible to verbally convey the emotions and feelings that your children give you.
Are kids trying? Absolutely. I remember a survey in Redbook (how much more parent oriented could a magazine be?) in which something like 25% of moms said they regretted having children. I suspect most of that 25% regretted their timing more than actually having kids, but I don’t know. It may be that at any given moment, 25% of parents are regretting having kids. I don’t know. I do know that an awful lot of marriages continue not “for the children”, but because of the children and for the parents. Not living with my kids would be lonely and frustrating and is not something I will ever choose to do. It is not a matter of “putting up with kids and marriage”.
So, odds are you’ll not regret having kids. I don’t think there is any way of knowing ahead of time.
And finally, when you see a parent who has lost it, try a line I read once: “[some introductory noise/word like Dude] You are your kid’s whole world.” Should stop anyone in their tracks.
A friend of ours said he was glad he had kids because it allowed him to play in the playground, with other people thinking he was a great father and not some kind of nut.
