I guess we're taking each other back to court...

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

I’ll dive back into the fray. I’ve written variations on this post a couple times then not pressed “Submit” for fear of fanning the flames.

In person, I only vent like this to friends and this board (I suppose I count you in the “friend” column). In court, I intend to be all business. I have 5 months of checking account records (she used our old joint account for a long time) and 14 months of credit card statements in a folder. If she goes to court and cries poverty, I think I can prove why - and it’s not that she didn’t have enough money, it’s that she wasted, literally, thousands of dollars on fast food and luxury services.

I have the figures covered I think.

If she runs to court and cries ignorance, I have a many emails from me to her detailing the split of our debts and assets and preparing for the legal separation papers. I have her signature on the divorce and separation papers that reflect all the previous emails. All are consistent.

I worry most about her hints that she’s going to try to take away my kids.

I could try to make the argument that she’s not that good a mother. I have pictures of how she kept house (although the obvious counter-argument is that I lived there too), papers on how she manages money. Her immoral behavior since the separation (multiple live-in boyfriends, one a thief) is basically inadmissible.

I was told my a family lawyer, earlier when I was considering trying for full custody, that unless she’s a drug abuser, alcoholic, or child abuser that I couldn’t expect more than half custody. I’m hoping that rather liberal list of guidelines applies to me if she tries to take the kids away. I do have friends we used to have in common who are willing to stand up in court and vouch for me - don’t know if that’ll be a help or not.

I guess what I’m trying to say is if this ends up back in court, I have facts and not emotions to argue with. I can be a cold-hearted bastard when I argue. I can be annoyingly Mr-Spock logical at times. After court, though, it’s likely I’ll have to have shot and a big bowl of ice cream because the emotionalism is only deferred.

I guess I’m going to handle my “motion to enforce” on my own. It seems cut-and-dried, again I have my figures and papers ready and all I’m requesting is enforcement of the written decree. If it gets to the point that we’re going back for a motion to modify the decree, though, I’m going to get a lawyer.

As to doing everything through a lawyer - that’s impractical concerning immediate issues with the children. In the past two days, we’ve exchange emails over last night’s visitation with me and my time with them Sunday. Pick-up and drop-off locations and times have to managed. It sounds good to say “Do everything through lawyers” but it’s not really practical.

My latest email to her was about child custody changes. She has a new job, greatly increased salary, and the law says if it results in a 10% change in CS payments, then a change to CS is allowed.

There’s two processes, one where she cooperates, one when she doesn’t. The former is easier and cheaper, the latter is harder and more expensive. I sent her an email saying I intend to modify the CS, I linked to the court instructions, and asked her, basically, “hard or easy?”

No answer yet. I don’t expect one, her latest thing is playing passive aggressive. I told her that not answering by Monday means “the hard way”. And it’s back to legal services I go.

I have a notebook now to record all my dealings with her. I’m sure it’s going to get full.

42

Question: Can the simple fact of being an asshole really affect the outcome of a divorce? I mean, the MIL thing…would that have any bearing on the divorce agreement? You can talk about it til your blue in the face, but if he’s not dangerous or doing anything illegal, well…he wouldn’t be the first person to rip on his MIL. I don’t think the courts care one way or the other.

So…get a lawyer and get a shrink. You need to stop feeling bitter and hateful. The children are part of her. They can interpret it as being less-than-worthy of your love just by biological association. Kids actually can and do think that way.

I am sorry for your trouble. Divorce can be really ugly. I hope you all get through it in one piece.

43

I don’t think it’s likely that they’ll bring up the letter in court. If they try to, I’ll ask the whole letter be read. There’s some stuff in there that’s very embarrassing to her.

I never ripped on my MiL in that letter linked above. If you check, the letter is ripping on my Ex- to my ex-MiL. My MiL dotes on her grandchildren and I know, based on her own words, that she is less than thrilled that my ex has had live-in boyfriends. For example, when I predicted to her that the first boyfriend would, in fact, move in the day my ex moved into her apartment, she said, “Over my dead body!” I was right.

I sent an email concerning my ex-MiL to my ex in a threat that her mom’s history of child abuse might have bearing on any attempt to change the child-custody arrangement. She’s coming to care for the children over spring break, for example.

It was a way, I hoped, to make my ex re-think trying to modify the custody agreement.

I’ve got two people willing to stand up and repeat my Ex’s stories of her mother’s history of abuse. I’m not the only one she’s told. If it’s true, there’s a danger there to my kids. If it’s false, it demonstrates my ex’s instability and her need to lie to gather attention and get her way.

I do think I’m careful to only put facts into my letters to her. I’m not afraid of any letter I’ve written being read into the court history. Most are very business-like, the MiL letter was, perhaps, the most emotional.

44

Deleted - it won’t make a difference anyway.

StG

45

Dramatic.

The original posting was sent in the thread subscription so I’ll comment anyway.

I have admitted that the letter to my ex-MiL was a mistake in my OP., I apologized to her for involving her.

The latest email is at trying to save us both time and money if we come to an agreement on how to modify child support.

Not everything has to be adversarial - if we can do this without a fight, it’s easier on all - including the children.

I want to try to take the high-road in these dealings. That’s why I apologized to my ex-MiL for the letter - it wasn’t the high road. I slipped for a minute there. Thsi isn’t easy, to try to stay nice when the other party is doing nothing but obstructing. I’m human enough to get emotional and make mistakes.

46

Your mistake is thinking that just because you are in the right you are going to win, also trying to convince anyone you can how much in the right you are. Get a freaking lawyer, even if you can’t afford one, even if it will screw you completely in the near future. Its too late to not be adversarial, you are trying to use reason and logic and fairness against someone unreasonable illogical and unfair. The only thing you should be thinking about doing is ending this issue in the courts as soon as possible and with as favorable an outcome as possible, and for that you need the best possible lawyer.

47

Ding! Ding! Ding!

My Dad fought with his divorce lawyer and ignored his advice because he was so convinced that he was right and would prevail.

Cost Dad a LOT of money.

48

I’m sorry, I can’t get past this: You were living in a house that was messy and/or filthy, and rather than cleaning it up, you chose to take pictures of it to use as ammunition against your wife in a future custody battle? Do I have this right?

As for the other issues, I’ll just throw in my voice with the dozens of others advising you to please get a lawyer. No matter how Mr. Spock-like you might think you are, or how many photos or emails you have as evidence, you will have a better outcome with a lawyer on your side.

49

I thought this was ridiculous as well. I’ll also bet you a Coke that Belrix had no issue with his “abusive” mother-in-law looking after the kids when he was still married to his ex.

I don’t mean to be snippy here - I guess I’d just like the OP to realize that his attitude towards his ex wife will probably shine through no matter how Spock-like he thinks he’s being. While, strictly speaking, his feelings about his ex don’t have much bearing on the property issues, bitterness and bile towards his ex may cause the judge to question his credibility.

With respect to the children, it’s an entirely different matter. In my jurisdiction, disparaging the other parent to the children or alienating your children from that parent are considered grounds to restrict access and can easily cause a parent to lose primary custody. Justifiably so, in my opinion, both as someone who has dealt with many difficult custody issues in professional capacity and as a child of divorce.

50

Search is turned off so it’s difficult to find the threads I posted before about this. She was a stay-at-home Mom. Her jobs were to care for the house and children. She didn’t do the one and barely did the other. In return she got all the things my salary bought so it wasn’t like she wasn’t being compensated.

I’d clean on weekends, do laundry, mop, and wash a week’s worth of moldy dishes on the counter, stuck to the dinner table and piled in the sink. Could I have done more? Yeah, probably. But she did virtually nothing.

The apartment she took after the separation also devolved into filth. Unfortunately I have no pictures of it.

Her current house actually looks pretty good - I don’t know if the boyfriend cracks the whip on her where I wanted a partner or if she’s still in the good-little-girl mode where she’s trying to convince the boyfriend to marry her by demonstrating her wares.

I only took pictures after we agreed to separate - thought they might be useful one day. It was a problem the whole marriage - her filthy habits - and I combated it as best I could without totally devoting my life to it.

I should just shut up. Many of you have your own agendas and pet theories you’re trying to make fit my situation.

I’ve cried tears, howled at the moon, bitched, wailed and moaned over all of this. Her infidelity, her lies, her filth, her neglect of the children. You all have no idea the piles of shit I’ve waded through for the past 12 years. All I want is to free of this woman and all she wants is to take all she can, obstruct my access to my children, and make trouble so she feels powerful.

As far as the “get a lawyer” comments. I’ve already said that’s my plan if she tries to take me back to modify the decree. I know I can’t fight that on my own.

I’ll use the pre-paid lawyer service to put together the motion to modify child support paperwork - that’s also very important to get right.

51

When somebody is trying to take your children away, you reach for the weapons within reach.

I’m also careful to separate what I say about my ex here from what I say about my ex to my children. It’s a fine line at times but I think I do a very good job of staying on the cordial side of it when the children are within earshot.

I don’t know what she says about me to them.

52

Seriously? Read for comprehension next time.

First, I don’t know Belrix from a hole in the wall. All I’m saying is that he needs (1) an attorney; (2) to cut off contact with his ex and her family; and (3) to stop taking actions that make him look like a dick, regardless of how well-thought-out he thinks those actions are.

If it’s down to the extraordinarily subjective decisions, anecdotal evidence is sometimes all there is.

I’m sure it was quite therapeutic for you to list all the things for which you had documentation. You have served to effectively illustrate my point that those things which are not objective will be determined by a much more general factfinding system.

I don’t know what you do for a living, but if, in the course of doing whatever it is you do, you assume that your particular experience is the standard by which all things similar will progress, then that probably hampers your ability to do whatever it is you do even worse than the level of reading comprehension you have displayed here, to say nothing of what could very easily be seen as a tasteless potshot in MPSIMS.

53

Here is some advice from the child of divorced parents: Try not to talk about your ex at all, to your kids or in front of your kids. If they come back from her place with wild stories about all that happened there, noncommittally shrug and say, “Well, you’re home now.” Do not engage them in conversations about what goes on there or about your ex at all. No good can come of it. If you have concerns about their treatment while they are there, address it directly with your ex; you haven’t said you would do so but I’ll just preemptively warn you anyway, NEVER NEVER EVER NEVER use your children to carry messages between you and your ex.

54

Belrix, I think the best thing to do at this point would be to leave this thread alone for a while and think about the advice people have given you here–you don’t have to automatically follow it, or whatever, but just give it some thought.

A lot of people are saying you should hire a lawyer, and some are saying you should talk to a therapist. FWIW, I think both are really good ideas.

Good luck with whatever course you choose. I hope this gets better for you, sooner rather than later.

55

Stop reaching for the convenient weapon – or at least stop settling for it. Reach for the one everyone believes will work most effectively: a lawyer.

You’ll be much, much better off if you engage a lawyer and find out you don’t need one than you will be if you don’t engage a lawyer and find out you do need one.

I understand why you want this to be over, but don’t let your eagerness for a fast resolution get in the way of a more solid one.

56

Umm…

Should I point out that I’m not the one who posted what you think is a potshot? Is it couth to point out that you apparently didn’t read for comprehension?

Maybe not…

57

Wow, and you think you’re the BETTER parent? This demonstrates that you are every bit the low-down lunatic you portray her to be. You acknowledge that it was wrong to send the letter to the MIL, but you’ll use it to embarrass your ex in court? I pity your kids if you’re the better parent.

And many of us are basing our opinions on your words here and in your other threads. Your attitude. Your unwillingness to listen to reason.

I have no agenda. My parents never divorced and I’ve never been (or wanted to be) married, so I have no axe to grind. I’m reading the words of someone who is pretending to be the sane and rational one while being nasty, sneaky, and full of excuses.

I’m sure divorce is hard. I’ve sat with friends (men and women) while they’ve cried about it and tried to help them get through it. Usually those people are mature enough to realize their own shortcomings, and leave the court proceedings to the professionals who argue within the law without bringing their own bitter baggage to the case.

If you think this attitude isn’t going to seep through to your kids, you’re fooling only yourself.

58

**Belrix, **I think that you are in a rough situation. Divorce is never easy and there is a lot of emotional baggage that becomes attached. You are upset with your ex and perhaps rightfully so.

I wouldn’t recommend that you go pro se, but if you are going to do it, let me give you some advice. Be deferential to the judge, speak very calmly and do not get emotional. Call the judge, your honor. You want to come across as a rational person who is trying to do right by everyone. Do not get into accusations about this or that, do your best to argue the matter before the court. In my experience, the judge wants to get through the docket. If you are there to argue a motion, then please argue the motion.

59

Didn’t I admit this was a mistake? Didn’t I explain how I came to this?

By your own admission, you have no experience to understand marriage, parenthood, or any of this except second-hand from friends. Yet you’ll stand in judgment as the voice of experience who hasn’t experienced.

I’ll bet if somebody ran over your favorite pet, you’d be a bit upset, too. You’d probably post something to the pit about the bitch/bastard that crushed your favorite fluffy friend.

Multiply that by a 100 and you may be getting close to having your children taken away.

Of course, if somebody who never had a pet patted your hand while you cried and told you, “Well, just get another.” you’d calm down and be as right as rain.

Yes, I’ve made mistakes. Yes, I’ve done some emotional things. And…

Yes, I’ll be getting a lawyer if this goes to court!

Geez… talking about people not reading for comprehension.

Yes, I know it’s a jumbo sized strawman…

60

I hope to be able to do that. Thanks for not adding to the Greek chorus damning me for getting a little pissed at times.

The worst of it, I think, is I thought I was done last July. Papers filed, gavel pounded, agreements made, all done. Now it’s back…