Yeah - that I don’t get. And even if the issue is Trump - that’s what - going on 5 yrs at least?
I didn’t.
It’s moderately unlikely that I will be exposed to Covid, and if I do get it, it’s quite likely that it will be minor or even completely asymptomatic. My chances of dying from Covid are pretty slim.
I am scheduled to get the booster in a few days. I am not doing so to protect myself, I am doing so to lower my chances of being a vector to continue to spread it to others.
I don’t want to get the shot. I’m not a fan of needles, I’m not a fan of going somewhere I can’t take my dogs, and the second vaccine shot kicked my ass for a day and a half, and I have little reason to think that the booster won’t as well.
Now, if you want to say that I got it out of enlightened self interest, I can’t argue there. I am willing to go through some level of personal discomfort in order to live in a healthier, more stable society.
I got it so that that I don’t unknowingly spread Covid to my family, my friends, the clients at the food pantry and total strangers.
czar, k9 - I feel very much the same. But didn’t self protection play at least PART of your decision?
A small part, maybe…but even if there was risk only to others but not to me, I would still get the shots.
Protection from dying or serious illness? Not really.
The closest would be protection from having to quarantine, as that would be disruptive of my life, but at the same time, I would only quarantine out of a desire to protect others. Were I self centered enough to not get the vaccine, I’d probably be selfish enough to hide my diagnosis and continue to spread Covid to everyone around me.
I also take an at home test once a week or so, and a few hours before I attend any social gathering. This does me no good at all.
But, since you capilitized PART for emphasis, it would be hard to say definitively that it didn’t have any PART to play at all. So, let’s say 5%.
ETA: on reflection, I suppose it really ought to be more like .1%, my estimated chance of dying or having serious complications from Covid.
I think the only real question is whether the two of you can find some agreed upon path to detente. You think her political views are abhorrent. She thinks your political views are abhorrent. You both know this about each other. Is there any space left for other things in your marriage? Can you both respect each other enough to agree upon topics that won’t be brought up because they will trigger anger? If not, get out of the marriage, because you are just wasting each other’s time.
How does she reconcile Trump being full vaccinated with her refusal to do the same?
Oh, I feel the same. I’m in pretty good health and figure I can withstand most slings and arrows sent my way.
But the damned shot is so easy to get, and there is no non-insane reason not to, that I would just as soon reduce the risk of personally getting really sick. Same reason I get flu shots (most years), despite never having had a serious case of flu.
Is that how she sees it? Or does she also think her way of seeing this is THE TRUTH?
“Hypocrisy” as an accusation doesn’t register with Q-Anon and/or Trump supporters any more. It is a tool used to win.
To clarify, to a Trump supporter, accusing them of “hypocrisy” makes no more sense to them than accusing a sports player, “Why are you helping your teammates score while trying to prevent the opposing team from scoring?” To them, it’s not even hypocrisy, it’s playing the game the way they think a game is played.
Exactly.
Right, because they don’t think of politics as something that is actually important to how the country is governed, they see it as a sport.
They also don’t mind if their side cheats, while making unfounded accusations of cheating of the other. Since they know that there are no refs in this “sport” of theirs, all that matters is winning. Scratch that, they don’t even care about winning, the only thing that matters to them is the other side losing, even if that means that they lose too.
Treating politics like a spectator sport may indeed be how the Republicans view it, but I would say that that’s an extremely unhealthy way to try to govern a nation.
Getting back to the OP:
You really can’t persuade someone until/unless you know what their true underlying motives are. Until then, all argument is nothing but surface quarreling that never gets to the root of the matter.
Does your wife feel the strong inner need to live in a world where one side is clearly good and the other side is clearly evil? (That’s what motivates a lot of Fox viewers, the network presents a clear narrative of good vs. evil that scratches that itch for viewers.) What other underlying motives does she have?
I see it more as doublethink. Either vaccines are bad, or Trump is never wrong. At the moment it’s best she believe the latter.
I mean, my impression is that this whole situation is rooted in identity politics. People whose identity is based on their skin color, gender dynamics, religion, nationality, etc who also think the country as a whole should reflect their identity feel their sense of identity is under threat by multiculturalism and by leftists who embrace multiculturalism. I don’t know if you can teach critical thinking skills to people who have been fed propaganda until they feel their sense of identity is under threat. Don’t the fear circuits in the brain like the limbic system override the more logical parts like the prefrontal cortex?
“Dump her. Here.” Would’ve been even better.
I agree with you, but I would say that identity politics is a big part of it but it’s not only that.
I think the lack of critical thinking is a bigger one.
I’m fortunate enough to not know any full-blown Trumpists. But I do know some people who sometimes believe, passionately, certain GOP claims.
They are not all white. But they are all people who will believe things that anyone who understands standards of evidence would reject almost immediately. Like really stupid shit like drinking diet soda gives you disgusting genital lesions.
Oh, and to reiterate what I’ve said in previous threads: I have no issue with Conservatism as a political philosophy. I’m not being ideological in condemning the GOP, FOX et al, they are a special flavor of absolute nuttery.
If you’re a principled, mature, Conservative-leaning American you have two options. You can vote for someone principled and mature like you, or you can vote Republican. But you can’t do both.
Teach it to an adult? One that has already made a bunch of choices based on their flawed heuristics? I don’t know.
Critical thinking is something that needs to be started early. I think that one of the main reasons to focus on science in grade school isn’t so that students know the names of the planets, or to be able to diagram a seismic fault region, but instead, to know how to know how to do these things.
Science encourages curiosity, and also encourages doubt. In order to learn about the world, you first have to acknowledge that there are things about the world that you currently do not know. Being able to doubt one’s own positions is one of the most fundamental parts of critical thinking.
You also need math in order to be able to function in the world. Sean Carroll, in a recentish podcast, was talking about how most people understand probability. Something is either certain, impossible, or is a 50/50 chance. Understanding probabilities like .1% is something that we just aren’t wired for naturally, it’s something that needs to be learned.
As many people that I know hate science and math, I can only blame our education system in general for that failure.