Well, I will disagree that the difference between gawking at my tits and looking into my eyes is subtle. That’s a pretty major one for most women, I imagine.
A little shyness is attractive, it really is. Even a teensy bit of nervousness showing through is attractive- even flattering, as some have said. That said, when someone walks up to you, shifting their feet and completely avoiding eye contact (well, with anything but their shoes), it’s not particularly attractive. So what’s the line between cute shyness and obnoxious shyness? It depends from woman to woman really, but I really believe if you are sincere and confident enough to look her in the eye,you are going to find yourself in a much better situation, dating-wise (doing this, but maybe tripping over your words a little bit is actually cute).
And to cut off the comments I am inclined to think will follow this post of mine: no, confidence does not equal being a greasy, smarmy douchebag. We hate that kind of guy, too- trust me.
Ah, you bring up another fond memory. I met someone through a personal ad once. She seemed nice enough, and though I could see it wouldn’t work out in the long term (too many incompatibility issues, especially religious ones), I thought it would be nice to meet her and at least give it a chance. We set a date, and agreed to work out the details earlier in the day.
She never called me. I tried calling her and left messages. All. Fucking. Day. The call was supposed to be at something like 11am, the date around 7pm. Finally, around 9pm, I left the message “At least call to let me know you’re OK”, serious annoyance in my voice.
To her credit, she left a message for me the next day (when she knew I’d be at work) to explain her Judge Crater immitation. Turns out she stood me up “out of cowardness”, as her friends had convinced her that I was an axe murderer.
For the record, I’ve never murdered an axe. Never convicted, anyway. The charges were dropped on a technicality.
While it was totally rude for her not to update you and just be honest (I hate even friends that do this. If you know I’m calling to see if our plans are still on for tonight, don’t forward your phone to voice mail. I know that trick, douchey mcfriend! Ahem. Sorry), if I’d never really met you before, it was our first date, and you called me more than a couple of times to check the plans, I’d be either weirded out or turned off (depending whether I got the ax murderer or clingy vibe from you).
Very true. There’s a woman at work I’ve become interested in over the last couple of weeks. She’s hispanic, plump, curvaceous, and very attractive. She’s friendly and says hi to me at lunch.
My reaction is definitely the first of AA’s. All I have to go on is her looks and surface behaviours. But those interest me, and I’d like to find out more.
This is where those damned social skills come in, the ones that have been so hard for me to learn. Things like disconnecting your immediate plans and hopes and desires, setting them aside, and conentrating on what the other person is actually doing and saying. Making small talk is actually the art of listening to the other person, I suspect.
Diosa, part of the problerm, I believe, is that some guys don’t know how their behaviour appears on the outside*. They don’t know the difference between the cute shyness and the obnoxious shyness that you describe, for example. So if some guy was to approach you and he displayed obnoxious shyness, he would impress you less, even if his intentions were exactly the same as the one displaying cute shyness. And the guy displaying obnoxious nervousness may not know how to display anything else in that situation.
There was a long thread here a while back about ‘what makes a guy creepy’ and I got the impression that differences in behaviour that were completely clear to many people were completely opaque to others.
I maintain that these kinds of social skills are learnable, even for late starters. Most people seem to learn them in their teens, and I have read that that essentially is what teenagers do: the teen years and all their cliques and hairline distinctions are where people learn to perceive social cues and adjust their behaviour.
But enough people fall through the cracks then or do not learn these skills or have actual problems learning them that they have to learn them by conscious deliberate effort later.
[sub]*I’m sure there are others who simply don’t care.[/sub]
Short story time! I got this reaction from a girl once in person, and it really ticked me off. It was my 2nd night in my 2 week vacation in Japan, I was jet-lagged, super-tired, addled from constant Japanese use, and a little anxious from meeting this girl for the first time ever without even having seen a picture. I’m also hungry to the point my fingers would occassionally tingle.
Yeah, so we meet and proceed to rush around Shinjuku, Tokyo to find a pub that has room in it. After an hour of this exhausting search, we finally sit down. After a minute of small talk, she says “wow you’re not really flirty like you are online. You seem very nervous,” with the unspoken add-on of (I’ve lost all interest in you now. When’s this date going to end?) I said that I was just a little tired, and I tried to recapture the sense of excitement we had before, but all was in vain. The only consolation my ego could come up with was that she was flatter than hell…
Ok in retrospect this story is not really pertainable to the thread, but ummm… yeah,fuck you Cunty McSkankertits.
I’ve been really entertained by this thread; also been reading it with interest because I’m preparing to (shudder) start dating again sometime in the future. See, Mr. Lucky moved out again a few weeks ago, and this time I think it’s for keeps. I should probably start another thread about this in MPSIMS, but right now I can’t be bothered to do so. So for now I will just try to deal with my ongoing separation/divorce drama, read other people’s dating experiences, and have fun. I’m too scared of dating right now, and I know it’s too soon for me.
Does a guy’s nervousness/shyness look like a symptom of social ineptitude, poor confidence, or low self-esteem?
Or does a guy’s nervousness/shyness look like a symptom of someone who normally has it together but, at that moment, is simply blitzed by your beauty and hotness and is therefore rattled a bit?
If the answer to the first question is yes, then its a turn-off. If the answer to the second question is yes, then its a turn-on. I am starting to realize that I’m most drawn to confident, intelligent, sophisticated men who suddenly lose their cool exterior when I’m in their presence. It’s somewhat of a power trip for me, and I don’t know if I should be ashamed of myself for liking it.
I don’t mind either one, but I am probably going to be more interested in a shy guy than a confident one. I’m not a particularly confident person myself, and often I perceive confidence as over-confidence or arrogance. But a shy person who has managed to overcome shyness enough to talk to me or ask me out is very attractive. Then there’s the other part of your post–making someone lose their cool a bit because they’re so attracted to you. That’s rather charming as well. The power trip aspect is just another fun part of it to me, but I have a few issues in that area anyway.
Yes, I’ve asked men out and heard the answer no. I’ve also heard yes and then been stood up. Sitting there at a table in a restaurant wondering how much time is too much to wait and eventually skulking back home alone. It sucked but by the next day my attitude was “what a dumbass for missing his chance with me.”
I dunno, my sweet husband thinks he’s hit the trifecta. I told my friend that there are plenty of beautiful, smart, sane women out there, but they all got snapped up early. He’s a hot bartender, so he consoles himself by having one-night-stands with the beautiful, but crazy/not-smart women he meets at work.
Beautifully put. And as you with the face explains, nervous can often come off as “I’m not used to talking to women” or “You probably won’t like me, but…,” neither of which is attractive.
** Robot Arm ** , your story is upsetting. Girls like that should just be shot.
I don’t want to sound…overly cynical, but offer a green card and valid US citizenship and it won’t matter how old you are. However, love will have to develop afterwards, and there’s always a chance it won’t. On the other hand, Indian women tend to be faithful by default* so she’ll give it a very good try.Is that OK with you?
*This is not to say there’s anything better about Indian women! It’s just that divorce is still fairly anathema.
tdn brings up a good point – it all depends on so many little vibes from the guy. I don’t like shy guys, but I sure do like reserved and/or quiet guys. How to tell the difference? There’s a thousand little points that tell you. Body language, facial features, gestures – one can’t describe. So it’s very hard to explain “how to get dates”.
And on the other hand there is a certain look that instantly turns me off - the frat boy look. Big blond guy who looks like he played football all through high school and married his high school sweetheart - yes, I am judging fairly fast, but again these are subtle cues that tell me “This guy is not for you.” (Of course, those guys rarely ask me out anyway.)
One thing that I should add is: girls probably should date more. It doesn’t matter if you’re beautiful or what, beauty fades with age. I am willing to acknowledge we should be more open to the idea of meeting new guys, and not being so skeeved out by strangers, but it is difficult. A significant portion of us have been told all our lives by our parents, our friends, our teachers, that guys are out to get us, that they don’t want anything but sex, that we have to be careful. And the reputation we get is vastly different than the reputation men get. If I have 3-4 different dates in a week, and a guy has 3-4 dates, we’re both looked upon differently. Some have always seemed to me to be confident enough to deal with this at a much younger age. I’m only now getting to the point of that much confidence.
Not to mention, there are a portion of men who admit that no matter what, they’re looking chiefly for sex. Yes, relationships into the bargain, but also sex. A lot of guys will fuck for the sake of fucking. I’m of those who feel sex should be more relaxed and easy-going, and yet I can still count my partners on one hand - men and women’s mindsets about sex are fairly different and this doesn’t look like it’s going to change anytime soon.
One more thing about beauty, and then I will end this enormously long post. What’s the big deal about beauty anyway? I’m not saying we should all run out and date ugly people, really I’m not…but physical beauty is fleeting. And does it matter if your other half is not conventionally beautiful? When you look at your partner and you see all the good times and bad times you’ve shared, and you find things to delight in their looks that no one else sees - who cares about something called beauty?
Wives of Zebra “Umm…Sweetie, remember when I said, for better or for worse,”
Me “yes”
WoZ “You notice how I didn’t say ‘worst’”
Me “???”
WoZ “You’re the worst. So, I’m out of here. I’m moving in with my boyfriend. Have a nice life.”
Try having the confidence to date after that. Everytime I see a woman I’d like to date, I just end up wondering what part of my DVD collection she’ll take with her.
I’ve told that story to some people who concluded that the e-mail was her way of letting me down gently. (I do look back on it, now, and laugh.) I still believe that she just didn’t realize that I had asked her out on a Date. And I just can’t bring myself to hold it against someone, carry a grudge, or shoot her for something she didn’t even know she was doing.
However, she had dated other guys before that, and after, and is now married; while my dating life is sort of a surreal slump. So which one of us is the clueless one?
Zebra, I had to go look up the Cutting Edge. Sports? Rest assured, I don’t anything like that in my DVD collection. Actually, I’ll bet you mine lines up somewhat with yours - action, sci-fi, fantasy, and lots and lots of comedy. No chick flicks and no romance.
You can pry my Arnold S. films from my cold dead hands though.
Robot Arm, I missed the part where she is still your friend. Then, of curse I take it back, but I refer you back to my earlier comment about having the confidence to let people down, too.
