I don’t think they’re thinking about what the woman thinks - I think they, the men, get turned on scaring the women and exerting power of some sort over them. They don’t give a shit about what the woman feels or thinks, all that the men in these situations care about is what they are getting out of the interaction.
You know, I don’t ever recall getting butt-grabbed in my life, but I don’t doubt any woman who says it happened to her. It shouldn’t be that you need to be a victim of some sort of assault, abuse, or impropriety to believe it happens to someone else.
Good morning Broomstick. I think you’re right. You never know what strangers are capable of. That guy crossed way over the line of acceptable behavior, even if he wasn’t intent on the worst. Which you have no idea he wasn’t. Hope you have a good day at the shoe repair shop. The world is a beautiful place and life is a precious gift, so please don’t let shit like this ruin it for you.
And if that guy was as bad as he could have been, and if he was able to read this thread, what a wonderful consolation prize for not being able to commit sexual assault: he’d enjoy his power to make everyone soured on each other and mistrusting and broad-brushing.
I’m not saying it didn’t happen, just questioning the implication that your experience is typical. Most women have been hit on, I’ve no doubt, and been the target of unwanted advances. But what you describe is a pattern of blatant sexual assault happening to you, over and over again throughout your life. It doesn’t strike me as accurate, or especially useful, to extrapolate that to apply to all women, everywhere, all the time. Or from there, to formulate a reason: obviously, because all men are potential rapists and all women are potential victims, everywhere, all the time.
Well, okay. We’re all potential rapists (even those of us who have never, and would never, lay hands on a woman without her consent). Now we’re all in the same category— now what?
I am not quoting this to suggest that Broomstickshould have reacted in this manner, and I am sorry that such a situation has occurred. That said, as a doper male (who would not engage in such behavior as the customer/antagonist in this thread, and does not condone such behavior), a choreographed response resulting in a knee to the nuts would result in a 0% likelihood of said customer returning to bark up said cobbler’s tree
I don’t think people would be questioning the accuracy of Broomstick’s description of the encounter if she didn’t already have a long history of posts on this board complaining about bizarre interactions with strangers that strain credulity. I’m not going to dig up links, but the stories of how people treat her and her husband while in public are just over-the-top absurd and that has nothing to do with her being a woman, and nothing to do with the way women in general are treated by men. It’s simply a matter of someone having a reputation on this board for a tendency to exaggerate the truth.
The events that were described in the OP and subsequent posts of hers might be 100% truthful and accurate, I’m not saying they’re not, but when you cry wolf so many times, it’s not hard to understand why people might take what you say with a grain of salt.
I’m confused. Why did creeper return the next day? Was it specifically to berate the OP for not calling or was it to retrieve his shoes and he just happened to question her about not calling? If it was the former then the guy was definitely over the line and possibly a potential rapist/stalker. If it was the later then he was just a run of the mill asshole.
I would say that the difference between my situation and hers is that the particular instance I described happened on a very busy office floor (no one was directly around us, but there were probably 50 people who would have come running had I shouted for help). And that’s a fact I knew, so I was comfortable kicking him, knowing that if he reacted in any way other than going away, I could shout and someone would be there to help me.
Come to think of it, the handful of times I have physically (and violently) responded to guys were times when I knew bigger, scarier people were close by who would help me. After all, I’m 5’3’’ and it’s not like I could do much physical damage to anyone even at my very worst :).
I’ll allow that she’s possibly had more sexual assaults happen to her than the average woman her age, at least more than I’ve had, but I’d also guess she’s nowhere near an outlier. Mind you, I’ve had my share as well. Some highlights: one guy had a pleasant chat with me in a bar (we discussed the global economy), and then as we were leaving, when I said I was heading home, he pulled me into an alley and shoved his tongue down my throat, and grabbed at me as I ran away; another guy came up behind me in a dance club, grabbed my hand, and touched his exposed penis with it; and I couldn’t count the number of times I’ve had my ass, thighs, or boobs grabbed or stroked, or had a guy rub his crotch against me, or been followed through a store or other public place.
I know that the vast majority of guys would never do anything like this. And to be clear, this category doesn’t include mere “unwanted advances”, like guys who tried to hit on me at a party, even though we were both dating other people; guys in bars who were too drunk or clueless to tell that I was ignoring them, and so kept pestering me until I had to say, “look dude, don’t touch me, and back the fuck OFF!”; or even guys who asked me, or offered me money, to have sex with them point blank. The difference, for me, is that when I told these guys “no”, they took that for an answer, they didn’t get angry or violent, and they gave me a chance to object in the first place, rather than just grabbing what they wanted. I mean, I don’t love the idea that some guy sees me as nothing more than a fuck toy, but as long as he respects that I’m not his fuck toy, I don’t feel particularly threatened by him.
But here’s the point: I can’t reliably tell who’s going to pull this kind of shit and who would never think of it. Does that make all men “potential rapists” to me? Absolutely not. But what it does mean is that when I or another woman does feel threatened by some guy, it’s ridiculous for people to say, as they have in this thread, that the guy was not a potential rapist. No one knows what that guy had in mind except him.
What we do know is that in this case, she felt threatened, and with good reason, particularly given that this experience was similar to another she had which did turn violent. If Broomstick is like me (I won’t speak for all women), she doesn’t fear most men, most of the time. There will be some men she shouldn’t fear, but does. The potential risk is that they will have their feelings hurt. There will be some men she should fear, and doesn’t. The potential risk is that she will be attacked. So it seems to me that, since it’s often hard to tell who is a real threat, it’s better to err on the side of caution if someone is doing something threatening. And in my experience, and those of many women I know, not taking no for an answer, as this guy did, repeatedly, is a very, very bad sign.
I took a taekwondoe class many, many years ago, before the arthritis kicked in. The instructor made a point of demonstrating what a typical male reaction to a blow to the groin is…the man (or boy) automatically turns a knee in, so that his thigh shields the family jewels. The instructor wanted to show us two things, that a learned reflex is great to protect the voonerables (mandatory Discworld reference) and that we should pick another target, because aiming for the groin will usually not be effective, except to enrage the person who is attached to the balls.
I’m not quite sure which incidents you’re referring to, but I suspect some of them had to do with him being disabled - another category of people who suffer abuse “normal” people find incredible or jaw-dropping and yet still often occurs.
I’m not making up the bizarre behavior of strangers I’ve related here though, of course, I’m aware not everyone believes me. Nonetheless, I do in fact speak the truth.
He picked up his shoes the day he basically told me he wanted me to be his girlfriend, he wanted to change the way I said my own name, and he wanted to fuck me.
When he came in the following morning there was nothing of his in the shop, he really did come in just to give me shit about not calling him.
^ This.
When I was attacked those many years ago I went for his balls and that’s exactly what he did, shield them with his thigh. Which is how I wound up breaking his femur instead of nailing his groin. In this case it was still effective at disabling him, but only because I hit with literal bone-breaking force. Short of serious training and athleticism most people wouldn’t be able to do that. Hell, I can’t do it any more, I haven’t keep up the necessary work for it.
I imagine Bob Ducca will doubt the veracity of that, as well, but at the time I was not only studying martial arts, I played soccer, biked, hiked, jumped horses, and lifted weights. I was quite powerful for my size and gender.
*
>sigh<* If only I still had that strength and speed…
Or in your case, shriveled up old prunes. Your stories are no longer believable. You are a fruitcake. You’ve told so many improbable stories, that no one with any sense believes the story you tell. Yes, the guy you are talking about here was probably a creeper. But you, yourself, are even more so. Imagine my surprise, when you didn’t get the {{{hugs}}} you expected in this thread. Especially when you didn’t even bother mentioning that you weren’t posting a PALATR story, in a fucking pit thread but were, rather looking for {{{hugs}}}.
Then you bitch about PALATR being directed your way.
[sub] Imagine my surprise, not. I feel like Stoid should, but never will.[/sub]
I didn’t say or imply that you said I’m lying. However, back in post #64 you said “I also understand people taking Broomstick’s posts with a grain or more of salt.” Are you saying now that you didn’t mean to say that you think she is lying?
You are overreacting to what has been said. I believe only one poster has even implied that all men are potential rapists - only nutjobs and those who have been abused all their lives would think that. Same with anyone who thinks that all women are potential victims everywhere, all the time.
However, WRT sexual assault happening over and over to any random woman, it does happen. I imagine it’s more common with beautiful women with great bodies, but even us plain janes can end up with multiple assaults. Me for example - some guy in Mexico City rammed his boner into my 12 year old butt on a street corner (thru both our pants), I’ve been assaulted twice in rest areas, was abused by my first husband and I can’t even be bothered to consider how many times guys have “accidentally” bumped into my boobs or butt. Finally, as I have become old, grey and fat, I can trust men I don’t know well to not try something, but back when I was younger, not grey and slim I was cautious. And didn’t respond well to being touched by men I didn’t know. It is simply a defensive response that gets trained into us by those men who have no respect for us. But that doesn’t mean that we think all men are potential rapists. If nothing else, if we did none of us would marry.
I never called her a liar. I said that I understood why people might doubt pretty much anything she says in light of her goofy TMI posting history. I figure that she probably was harassed-- it’s hardly an extraordinary claim, after all. That’s why I said I “figure she probably was harassed” five posts before you called me dirt for calling her a liar, which, to restate for the slow-witted (that’s you, curlcoat), I never did.
And you should try it. The more you try to squirm out of what you said, the worse you make yourself look, such as pointing out that it isn’t just me who thinks you called Broomstick a liar. You still haven’t actually said you believe that she experienced what she did - harassed is not the same thing as feeling in danger.
I have no idea who you are nor do I care, but when you decide you want to just drop an attack on someone’s character into a thread for no apparent reason, you should be prepared to accept negative responses.
I haven’t been grabbed as much as Diosa but I have been harassed by men too.
I’ve been followed home by some asshole in a truck.
I’ve had men ask me how much I want to suck their dick. several times, both out walking and from cars.
I’ve been waiting at a bus stop in scrub pants and asked if I was a whore.
I’ve been screamed at about fucking when I was going to the post office in black jeans and t-shirt.
I’ve been called fat while walking to the library on several different occasions.
Some men just don’t see me as a person but merely as a place to put their dicks for awhile.
It does nothing for me except make me want to run them down with a car. I don’t want to get to know them as people. I feel anger or shame when I am treated that badly.
Expressing doubt is not the same as expressing absolute disbelief.
I’m fully prepared to accept the consequences of saying, and I quote, “I figure she probably got harassed”.
and, since I’m here
I’m not about to take advice from somebody whose idea of a solution to sexual harassment is “shoot first and ask questions later” and who probably last experienced it when Roosevelt was in office.
No, hon, I wasn’t going to knee him in the groin, I went for a full out kick in the groin, with my foot, not my knee. A full-out-break-shit martial arts type kick with the full intention of causing great damage to the target. Which worked very nicely, thank you very much.