You are a frickin’ loon. It’s 100% true.
To quote you:
DON’T YOU GET IT?!? For one thing, it is really rude to “comment” on someone’s appearance like that. RUDE RUDE RUDE. Get an etiquette book. Anyone is entitled to get “whiney” if some dolt comes up to them and “comments” in a negative way about their appearance. Ever had anyone come up to you and say “What an ugly tie?” Do you think that is a POLITE thing to do? Same thing when someone comes up to a fat chick and says something about her being fat. For one thing, how is it anyone else’s damn business - why do they feel COMPELLED to comment in the first place?
And we are not talking about a mere “comment” (which is rude enough on it’s own.) We are talking about mooing, hooting, oinking from strangers as you are walking down the street. We are talking about bumper stickers that say “Save a whale, harpoon a fat chick”. Do you really think it is just being “whiney” to not like that? You never address that issue - do you think we “deserve” that? Do you think that unless we lose weight, we shouldn’t get “whiney” when people moo and oink at us? Please answer that one.
Then I am to conclue that you do hold animosity towards the rest of us, who (you decide) could do something about our weight?
Good LORD, Mark, listen to yourself!!! The way you phrase things make you seem like, yes, an ASSHOLE. Only people with medical problems are okay, otherwise, you feel animosity towards them??
You know what that word means, right? Yet you claim you don’t “hate” Byz, then turn around and make that statement?
Oh, come on already. Can you try to post with your eyes open and at least TRY to see why you’re antagonizing people and making them defensive?
OK, I’ve always promised myself I would never post in the BBQ Pit because I don’t like this forum, but as part of an “assignment” (someone challenged critics of the pit to say why it was so objectionable) I came and read some of the threads.
This one really irritated me! I feel like I’ve got to say something.
[ul][li]In my experience, most of the “overweight” women I’ve known had a great personality and a wonderful sense of humour. Some have been mean and crabby, but that’s par for the course.[/li][li]Plump women aren’t necessarily lazy. In one of my company softball teams (with the computer department, so needless to say we weren’t all athletes) we had people of all body types. Some of those “fat” people could beat me lots of guys in sports any time. Sure, they might not be as fast around the bases, but some of them were great hitters and great fielders.[/li][li]If you want to say a plump woman is not your first choice, I won’t argue with you on that. But if you’re going to say “I could never be attracted to someone that’s not thin or beautiful” then I’m going to tell you that you have a serious problem.[/li][li]I’m not going to say that beauty is only mental, but it seems like I’m hearing “If someone isn’t pretty physically, they can’t be beautiful”. Some of the posts bring home the fact that it doesn’t matter what you look like if you have an ugly mind.[/li][li]And don’t argue that “that’s just what I think and I’m being honest.” If you’re going to say “fat women shouldn’t wear spandex” then I’ll tell you “obnoxious thoughts shouldn’t be brought out in public.” Maybe there’s some things you should be hiding.[/li][li]And anyway what do you care what other people wear? Life isn’t a popularity contest. For some people comfort is more important than looking like a page out of a fashion magazine. If you want to spend time and money being pretty, so be it. But maybe someone else is spending that energy on improving their mind. So which one is better?[/li][li]I’ve noticed since I’ve moved to this country (maybe because I live in California) that there is an overwhelming emphasis on physical beauty. Look at any European TV show or look at the news. You’ll see “normal” looking people, not the Pamela Lee Anderson’s of the world. I’ve heard lots of americans comment on “those funny-looking newscasters”. They’re not funny-looking, they look like you and me.[/li][li]Finally, the important thing is if you’re happy with what you look like. In Europe, on vacation, I’ve seen lots of older people that were less attractive running around on the beaches in their bathing suits. They didn’t care what anyone else thought, and so neither did anyone else.[/li][li]Another thought: I had a very good friend when I was at school who was not thin (but not obese either), and unfortunately for her, she was plain. Definitely not what anyone would call good-looking at first glance. She was funny and smart though. But when she hung out with the guys (on the film club) she would hear all those comments “whoa, look at that woman”. “That lady in the movie was beautiful.” Well, she told me once that sometimes she would go home and cry after these sessions because she thought “no one will ever say that about me.” Think about that next time you start making fun of people that aren’t good-looking.[/ul][/li]
P.S. I was going to add a disclaimer mentioning my looks and my girlfriend’s statistics, but then I though what the hell for? My opinions would be the same if I weighed 50 less or 50 pounds more.
P.P.S. I notice that while I was typing this up, many people chimed in and said lots of the things I was going to say. But I don’t want all my effort to go to waste so here it goes anyway.
P.P.P.S. And in case people call me a hypocrite, I’m still going to say I’m opposed to the BBQ pit. It seems to me that its main purpose is to irritate people. And right now I’m pretty irritated. I’ll see you in General Questions.
La franchise ne consiste pas à dire tout ce que l’on pense, mais à penser tout ce que l’on dit.
H. de Livry
There is nothing inherently wrong with you - you know this already. Neither Mark nor I are saying that there is. You should relax and know that if you are intelligent and open-minded you are better off than 95% of the rest of society.
I’ll speak for myself in saying that what I am talking about here is health. Medical health. I will concede that the medical definition of obesity is bullshit. I have known people who are 20% over their “ideal” weight and can box me to a standstill. There are some VERY fit heavy people.
But they are the exception.
Obesity causes health complications. You can pass these complications to your children. This is not a good thing.
If you can tell me that you honestly feel healthy, I would say that you ARE healthy.
As far as spandex goes - I urge ALL of you to slowly take it off and step away from it. That’s right, back off. Put it in the waste receptical. Now, don’t you feel better?
So you see, I went from being passably attractive, and with a good body (at 105 I must say my body DID look good… I was very toned as well) to being the object of “fat chick” jokes, in a matter of only a few short years. I’m currently doing well in my weight loss efforts… I’m down to 193 and progressing slowly but steadily downward… but regardless of my lifestyle, my weight, my hair or skin color or any other physical thing that someone could use to classify me, I’m a human being with feelings and RIGHTS. One of those rights includes the freedom to go about my business in spandex pants!
MarkSerlin – did you actually read my post? I was ASKING you if that was the case. So you are saying that it isn’t. Thank you for clearing that up.
I did not ask for a specific response. I asked a question. You answered it. And don’t accuse me of not thinking or of whining. I think very well and can communicate with others in a clear and concise manner. Posting my anger and frustration over this issue doesn’t mean I am whining. I’m not. I’m wondering WHY people think this activity is okay. You still have not responded to that.
I like that the only person you think is a “thinking” person, besides yourself, is another person who came out here and posted thoughts EXACTLY like yours. I laughed so hard I spewed coffee on the keyboard!
yosemitebabe – I think you summed this up very well. I just don’t think he really understands what we are talking about.
I also don’t think he realizes some other things about me that might give him some food for thought (or grist for the mill): I am 5’9 and 190. As I said I can just about bench press my own weight. I run 5 miles every other day. My resting heart rate is 60. I am in fantastic shape and basically feel very secure in myself. When I wear my sports bra and running pants there is no mistaking that the bulk of my body is muscle. But when I wear jeans I appear “fat” and I get amazingly rude comments from people that I DON’T EVEN KNOW. THAT is what I object to. If people walk by me and think these thoughts in their heads than that’s fine. They have NO RIGHT to say them to me.
We’re keeping Arnold. Plain and simple, we’re keeping him.
Sake, I know my health is at risk. I’ve got asthma, and the heavier I am, the more trouble I have. Problem is, I CAN’T exercise right now. For my own health, when I can, I WILL lose the 20-30 pounds needed to put me back in the safe zone. I’m considered severely obese by weight – not logic or proportion. Once my chest is balanced into the equation, I’m not so bad off. The breast reduction once I can finally drop the 20-30 will lose me at least another 10-15 pounds.
But dammit, I’m keeping my spandex. It’s the only thing that keeps my chest under control (throw a spandex top on over a bra and under a shirt, and I look almost, gasp, normal) and clingy spandex under skirts and really loose pants is damn comfortable.
Wear it where it’s less than subtle out in public? No way. In my own house? Make a comment, I show you the door. I am the only one who can make the fat jokes in my house. Nyaah.
. . . I tend not to let my personal opinions influence me when dealing with people.
Ha ha ha ha ha!
One will note that my posts began initially as rather mild but after the first event of being called an ‘asshole,’ it became necessary to start responding less gently.
Why did you feel it was necessary to call everyone’s attention to that? “See, look, I was being nice but then they started being mean to me! See! SEE?”
Okay, enough’s enough. I’m 6’4" and 220 pounds. I used to weigh 260. I’ve dropped weight. I’m in shape. I probably have less fat in my body than you have in your head. You are an asshole. Hear that? A GUY who is IN shape is calling you an asshole. You don’t know a fucking thing about fat. So leave.
– Sylence
And now, for my next trick, I will talk in spooky half-references.
The sad thing, in the criticisms that are being thrown at anyone for what they look like, is the total lack of simple courtesy.
Mark, you’re probably right that the man that divorced his wife for her weight gain had warned her. But an awful lot of women who gain weight after marriage are trying to fill spots inside themselves that constant criticism just drives them on to satisfy that ‘craving’. Not real hunger, but the hunger of the soul for acceptance and encouragement. Had she had a mastectomy, would it still be an acceptable thing to divorce? Are marriage vows now changing to ‘better or fatter, or till I find you unattractive’? This goes to the many things that are traumatic enough in life to worry over without the added grief of what will cause more rejection, something that none of us need anymore of anyway. I’ve known people who managed to make successful marriages and respected one another despite the outward appearances of either person. My grandfather had to wait on my grandmother almost hand and foot because of her heart condition. He didn’t split because life became less ‘fun’ for him. She couldn’t lie down flat anymore, and Gramps started sleeping on the couch to be close to her.
I realize everyone has a right to their own opinion. But I can’t help but be curious as to why it has to be stated, it isn’t anyone else’s business, and it isn’t kind and it isn’t helpful. My mom used to say, if it didn’t fit into those categories, ask yourself, why say it at all?
As for the overweight kids, I am a home schooling parent of a fifteen year old boy, and most of the kids that live around us are ‘latch key kids’ that aren’t allowed outside until their parents come home. That isn’t until after six now, so we don’t even see children except on the weekends. They don’t have mandantory gym class with those ugly suits (anyone old enough to remember those??) with calisthenics. The few times I’ve been to a playground the kids just run around without regular supervised play. The teachers were standing together talking. Maybe that was an isolated incident, as I said, I home school, so that I’m not around school grounds much anymore.
I didn’t allow either of my sons to make fun of anyone. People criticized me for it at the time, saying ‘kids will be kids’. But, we don’t get civilized on our own. We have to be taught, and it is depressing to see adults speaking so ill of one another on this thread. When I don’t think you’d say it to the person’s face. I don’t think, Mark, that you’d ‘moo’ if you saw a heavy person walking down the street. But could you, just think how you’d feel if the person was you? Or how about the one legged man? Does he get ugly comments? I once saw a man with no legs getting around on a skateboard, and both my sons stared at him. I was tempted to apologize and just about the time I did, the guy smiled at my kids ( 7 and 4 at the time) did a fantastic mid air jump off the curb and landed back on the skateboard! He waved to us, and we waved back and we all went in opposite directions. Everyone has differences, everyone has limitations, and handicaps of some kind. Some we see easily, some we don’t. But we are all just humans, with feelings that get hurt, and the very least we can do for one another is to show a little kindness, in facing one another’s vulnerability. Life is too short to carry around the kind of cruelty that makes it difficult for others to live their lives, and it is the easiest thing to do to point fingers, giggling at the limitations, or lifestyle, of other people.
I have a little black rock on my table that reads: ‘Are you fit to throw the first stone’?
Opal - I wanted to say that your “fat” picture was very pretty. You are pretty. Maybe plump for some tastes (that’s their right) but I am absolutely amazed that anyone would dare come up to you on the street and make rude comments.
Come to think of it, I looked at some old pictures of myself as a teenager, when I got tormented frequently for being fat. I was plump, but decidedly “cute”. I look back and mourn the fact that I could never see that - I was so inundated with the cruel comments, I thought I must look like I leper. I didn’t.
Arnold Winkelried: I am glad that you made an exception and posted in the BBQ Pit - you had so many valuable things to add to this thread.
No. Spandex is very comfortable. It doesn’t bind or get in the way or all the other annoying things that a lot of clothes can do. It also lends some support (think jogging bra for the body).
Yosemite:
Thanks for the kind words… but yeah, I even got rude comments when I was thin and dancing. I was told I was fat, that I had fat legs, a fat ass, etc. I was once told that I was “the ugliest girl in the building”… I pretty much grew up figuring that I was pretty dang ugly. When I was dancing, I actually gained a LOT of self confidence… and for the first time in my life I felt pretty. I try to hold onto that still, but it is hard…
On a somewhat related topic… maybe when they figure out what is wrong with my knees I can get surgery or medication or something that will make it easier to excercise… kinda funny, but when I told people “I have really bad knees” and “I’m a dancer” they would look at me funny…figuring one of the two was untrue. Strangely enough, dancing was one of the few on-my-feet activities that DIDN’T hurt my knees… because the shoes I wore (4-5" heels) put my weight on my toes instead of my heel, which eliminated the weird torque thing that happens that twists my knees… but this is getting off the topic…
I’d love to be able to take long walks, or jog, or do those kinds of things for excercise… but when I do, my knees swell up like grapefruits and I can’t walk for a few days.
Way to go Yosemitebabe! You took the words right out of my fingers! Mark, listen closely…DO NOT COMMENT OUT LOUD ABOUT A PERSON’S WEIGHT. None of us give a flyin’ fuck what you think. To paraphrase you, EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO AN OPINION. But keep it to yourself. It is mean, rude, and juvenile to make a comment out loud about a physical attribute you don’t dig. Dig?
Where have I been? I have missed this entire thread up until now and am pretty disappointed, because it has been quite an interesting read.
Everyone else is sharing, I might as well.
“Hi, I am Mullinator. 6’9, 230.”
I never dated anyone that was overweight. When I was single, my ideal woman was tall, blond, and an athlete. I think I went for this type mainly because I am seriously attracted to height, I tended to hang out with other athletes in high school, and it just kind of worked out that way. Can’t explain the blond thing, blame commercials I guess.
When we got married, my wife was 6’1, 140. She is about the same now (only 1 year later). But, to me, it wouldn’t really matter what she looked like. She knows that her weight can fluctuate, her hair could fall out, or she could draw stripes on her face in magic marker and I would still love her with all of my heart. I guess what I am trying to say is that I was attracted to tall and thin, but once I became so in love it doesn’t really matter what she looks like. While I am attracted to how she looks, I am truly in love with the person she is regardless of looks.
Well, shut my mouth. It’s also illegal to put squirrels down your pants for the purposes of gambling.
