it took me 3 bloody attempts to post that…
Oh dear, Plank, I so know what that’s like. There’s a way in which guys can be sexually invisible… and it’s frustrating as hell to figure out a way around it.
I don’t know whether this will help, but I find that exercise aids with this; it relaxes me, allows me to disconnect my mind and stop thinking about stuff so much, and helps me to be ‘more present’ in my body.
And there’s a strange way that I can feel that it works: usually after a day at the computer at work, my body feels like a lump, and I’m ‘in my head’. After exercising, I feel that I am a whole, and present throughout my entire body, and I often have more energy.
I am convinced that women can sense this, and that being fully present in one’s body is much more sexually attractive to women.
I hope this helps, Plank. I’m still working on learning the social skills myself. I’m not a drinker or smoker either, so my options for icebreakers there have been limited as well.
Must… get… back… to… gym…
thanx Sunspace, but i’m actually round the other way to you. my work is quite physical (i work at a recording/rehersal studio and generally do stuff like picking up marshall 4x12 cabs and moving em around), so i like to unwind by gettin on the computer. no woman (eesh, i’m still at the age where saying woman in connection with me sounds wierd) is ever gonna go for me for my body, and i wouldnt want them to anyway. I’m not into superficial people (or they at least dont seem to be that way).
[sob story]
i’ve always felt just… left out of the whole thing. while all the guys in my classes at high school were out with the girls, nobody even looked at me. same through sixth form, and it looks like exactly the same is happening thru university.
what did change in the 6th form (once they’d grown up to the point where they could talk with guys without giggling) is i suddenly started having lots of female friends (i had few male friends anyway). they would often confide in me, come to me for moral support, stuff like that. yet on the occasions i needed a little tlc myself, they were never around or interested. the same appears to be happening all over again at university. different people: same problems. i feel like a complete doormat sometimes, altho i’m not a total walkover. i just cant stay mad at people for long…
[/sob story]
I’m sorry, Plank, I just tend to assume that everyone here on the SDMB tends to be on the computer a lot. My apologies.
I know exectly what you mean, feeling ‘left out of the thing’. It’s just as heartbreaking in the work world as well. Especially when one works surrounded by gorgeous female co-workers who are either married, or who are conspicuously searching and have said to other co-workers (while unaware of your prescence) that they aren’t interested in your type… while you wince in your cubicle.
Trust me. In some ways it gets worse after university. Especially if you’re a introverted tech writer, and you work surrounded by extroverted Marketing types, to whom being in a relationship with an introvert is a close approximation of hell.
On the other hand, as more and more of the women are married, you end up knowing that you haven’t a chance, and you don’t have to go through the whole rejection thing, so in a weird way it’s easier to become friends.
I’ve been in the ‘supportive but fundamentally ignored’ place as well. Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if I said to one of those women who came to me for support, “I’m interested in you, but you aren’t interested in me. Please don’t come to me for support unless you’re really interested in a relationship with me. I’m sick of just giving to you without getting anything back.” And been fully prepared to abandon all contact with that person.
oh no, you are right. i am on the computer a lot. i just do physical work instead of exercise. my body gets a workout and i get paid for it 
oh, and i tried the bridge burning thingy as well, and was surprised with how well it worked…
once with a girl in my 6th form. i didnt fancy her, but i got fed up of her always whining on and on about how loving her bf was and how she couldnt stand it (insert WTF??? here), and one day i told her i just didnt have the time anymore (she could go on for hours). she got pissy at me, so i launched at her and told her exactly what i thought of her. that was fun…
the second time was someone who appeared to be interested in me but couldnt make up her mind. i told her to fuck off cos i couldnt handle her crap and lies, and i havent spoken to her since. it’s quite liberating.
i wouldnt burn all my bridges tho. i do have some very good friends that come to me, and they at least respect me for it…
There is a distinction between men I classify as “friend only” and men who are potential dates or partners. I will describe the difference in their behavior, as I perceive it.
I love my non-threatening, no sexual-tension man friends. I don’t want them to change, don’t want the relationship to cross that flirting boundary, don’t want to give up the right to grab their hand in the mall or get a comforting hug when I am having a bad day. Sometimes they tell me I am wearing a pretty dress, skirt, sweater, or that my hair looks nice. I suppose I assume that my men friends are not interested in me sexually; that I am not their type or that they are not looking for a relationship. I may be assuming this incorrectly, but continue to catalog them as friends only.
The men who seem to get lucky:
They make sexual comments or give compliments that make me blush. They openly look at my breasts or watch me walk. They wink or give me a sideways naughty grin. They tell me we should go get a beer sometime, or that I look goood or niiice, demand hugs or poke the tummy that is showing below my shirt. They stretch too much, lean on furniture, bars, desk, and otherwise take up a lot of physical space. They also violate my personal space- stand too close, sneak up behind me, lean over my chair, and touch me. They make it obvious that they have lots of female friends, and I that I am only one. They will speak to the other women around me in the same over-friendly tone they are using on me. “Hello, ladies” They have a confident and at-ease posture, and seem comfortable in their skin.
ah, i see. this is the sort of thing i lack. i dont invade personal space, give sexual compliments or pretty much anything else on the list. just doesnt feel right. it’s not who i am. really. damned low testosterone. i swear it is, cos i can never ever make my mind up properly (amongst other things).
To be honest- those cocky guys can really get on my nerves, but thier approach still works to convey the idea that they may want to have more than friendship with me. It isn’t quite as bad as carrying a club and dragging us by our hair… but must seem very unsophisticated to you cerebral and honest types.
to be honest, it does. i’ve known guys of that type who have hurt my female friends quite badly (one nearly killed herself because of it). so i a) resolved to never be an asshole like that, in any respect, and b) really hate people who do that. i swear i would’ve killed him, if she’d just said the word. nobody fucks with my friends like that…
I consulted my painfully shy BF last night about his methods of approaching women. (He is terribly bashful but has dated nothing but beautiful women; of this I am certain-we see them everywhere we go :rolleyes: )
It seems to make a difference if the intentions are made clear intiatially- that is to say- flirt first, in order to establish what sort of relationship you want from the girl, then take your time and get to know her in the normal, conversational sort of way. BF agrees that the “friend only” boundary is almost impossible to cross (without the aid of alcohol) once those lines have been drawn.
I could not agree with this last post more. I have girl friends {not girlfriends} that I have known for years that I would have a very hard time crossing that friend boundary with.
But in a lot of cases when I am trying to meet someone new or “get lucky” I am that guy psalex described. It seems to work pretty well, plus it’s fun. It sort of sets a good groundwork for what you are trying to make happen.
First of all, whatever you do, don’t give up! That’ll guarantee that you never get a date/girlfriend/laid/whatever.
Second, there are plenty of people who are late starters. I’m one of them. I had one double-date with a buddy in high school, and maybe 3 in college. It wasn’t that I didn’t want to date- I just flat-out didn’t know how it worked. Since my friends weren’t big players and generally asked their girls out behind closed doors instead of at bars, I didn’t have any examples to go by. So I did it the hard way- got told I was like a brother a couple of times, got told I was a dork a couple of times, and got slapped a time or two.
Didn’t actually start “dating” anyone until about a year and a half out of college when I was almost 26.
I lost a lot of weight and got into shape- that helped my confidence immensely. I didn’t feel like a big fat gorilla any more.
I proceeded to date something like eleven girls in the space of about 2 years, with probably 3-4 of them being what you could call “girlfriends”, and the remainder being girls I went out with 1- 4 times. This was when I was 28-30, for what that’s worth. I’m almost 31 now.
One thing I learned is that there’s not much to be gained if you date someone strictly for the sake of dating someone. When I tried that, it just seemed like I made more compromises than I like just to say I was dating someone, and it’s not worth that. It’s far better to date someone you genuinely like and want to hang around/make out/sleep with than to do the same thing with someone you don’t feel that way about.
Well, that’s my 2 cents!
oh, i agree with ya. i dont ever want to date just for the sake of dating. i just sometimes find people that seem to be compatible, except for the fact that they themselves seem to be messed up in the head upon closer inspection.
i mean messed up along the lines of leading a guy along before dropping him and making him feel guilty for it…
You can be an absolutely fun, flirty guy and let girls know you find them sexy without being a cocky jerk.
There’s a LOT of room between being really flirty and getting across that you consider a woman sexy and being a cocky asshole. Most of the things ** Psalex ** mentions aren’t really inappropriate under almost any circumstances. The physical contact and sexual comments stuff may be- you just have to gauge how you think she’ll react and how the conversation’s going before you start that stuff up.
Despite what some women may say, cockiness is almost always an asset- it shows that you’re very confident. Just don’t get lost trying to one-up someone or let your ego get in the way. That’s usually not good.
damn, faking confidence. this is gonna be hard…
Tell me about it… 
(back to the gym for me)
Wow. YMMV. Mine certainly does.
If any guy came up to me making sexual comments, openly looking at my breasts, and violating my personal space, it would make me very uncomfortable. I would avoid that bastard as much as possible. Most ladies like gentlemen, nice guys, shysters–anything but cocky assholes.
thanks for the legitimate concern & advice. I think my major issue is a poor self image. I ‘know’ deep down inside that women want nothing to do with me sexually. It doesn’t feel like an opinion, i take it as fact & violating it feels unnatural. And i know its unsexy to think women don’t want you or to have a low self image, but this is the internet i’m not trying to be sexy i’m trying to be honest with myself & other people.
i mean i’m not terrible or anything. I am trying to lose weight, and after a few months i will probably have a pretty good body (i might be too muscular for women to like me though), my face is average. i am intelligent. IF (heavy on the if) i wanted too i could probably get an advanced degree that payed $80k a year or more instead of working on this associates degree. many people who get to know me like my personality. I have several friends who are players so i can get advice on interacting with women from them. But im inferior, not good enough and i dont know why i feel this way. as long as i feel this way i think everything else is a dead end.
psalex: youre right, i guess i don’t understand (some) women. You almost sound like you like being invaded, which is the opposite of what i would’ve expected. I could never stare at a womans breasts if i was interested in her. I assumed it would make her feel like i just wanted her body and turn her away.
Welcome back, Calc.
I understand your self-image issue all too well, having been through that myself. You’ve taken a very significant step in your latest post, by being honest with yourself about what is the central issue. You’re getting on the right track!
You need a breakthrough. If you’re anything like me, you may need several breakthroughs. You don’t need to know why you feel the way you do, the answer could be buried so far down it’s long forgotten. You can develop a different self-image, when you want to. From my experience, this is truly a matter of “Do – or do not; there is no try.”
When you’re ready to commit yourself to working towards a breakthrough or several, Calc, please email me; my address is in my profile. I’ll be very glad to share with you my own tale, as well as the methods I used to climb out.
The key is, Calc: Do you want to climb out? Do you REALLY WANT IT? Do you want to climb out so bad, you want it with every cell of your being?
When your answer is an enthusiastic YES, please contact me!