I'm sorry, i just really need to rant, OK? Ignore this.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Most of you kno my situation, I am seperating from my wife. I am at a point where I just have to get a rant outta my system, and I’m gonna do it here. Move on folks, nothing to see here. Just a crazy man.

Fuck fuck fuck! FUCKITY FUCK FUCK!!! I didn’t want it to come to this! When I said “I do” I ment it, but I have to save myself from this morass of dispair we have created. When I said I needed space it was to find myself again, but your constant phone calls and needy ploys are driving me outta my mind! I have to get back to myself, don’t you understand that? I’m not running out on you ( although that is becomming more and more like the only thing to do)Please give me some space to heal. That’s all I want to do, heal. Why won’t you let me do that? You are ruining any hope of recovering what we once had. I know it’s hard on you, but I’m doing this for US. It kills me to see how I am wounding you, but if I didn’t, we’d find ourselves a year from now hating each other. Please tough through this, and let us hope to find each other on the other side.
[/end rant] I feel a bit better, but not a lot. Thank you for your time.

It’ll never work. I should just accept that.FUCK!!! Life sucks right now!

2

Hard to ignore that, Dave - hang in there.

3

Tell her that, on neutral ground, like a counsellor’s office. Try to clarify what you mean by “finding yourself” and “needing space” because they are cliches that often mean “I want to sleep around.” I know that’s not your goal; find another way to tell her.

So, what do you want out of this relationship?

How is it not meeting your needs?

What are her needs? Try to pin them down.

Define “needing space.” Does this threaten her?

If you “find yourself” will you still need her? This can also be threatening.

Are your needs and hers really that far apart or ar you both so absorbed in the situation that you cannot see that your goals are similar?

Be honest. Be clear. Don’t be loud or confused or you’ll come off as threatening.

4

Dave, this sounds really self serving on my part but there’s that old song/saying, better to have loved than to not have loved at all.

At least you have had that hun, more than my pitiful life. Please know that I am so God-Damned sorry you are dealing with this, and you know that. But you have experienced something I fear I never will, sharing your life and giving the best you can for the sake of making your life fulfilled is a good thing and regardless of the outcome of your circumstances, please know that many of us sit back and envy what you have/had with K.

I wish that you an K can find that magic again, I only want happiness for you. I want you to have that kid you want and to grow old with her knowing you worked through some of the hardest times of your life.

Dave, my heart goes out to you in the pain of my own loneliness, because having had that and lost it once, I will never be the same. I want you and K to get back together and be as one, as you should be hun.

< makes me want to cry cuz Dave has such a kind soul and I do want the best for him >

5

Jesus, Liz, you make me wish I were in a position to help you. You know where to find me if you want to talk.

You, too, Dave.

6

Dave, my friend. I’m here for you, always. Email me, rant at me if you need/want to.
{{{{{{{{dave}}}}}}}}

Liz, I hurt for you too, dear. Wish I could help. I’m always here for you.
{{{{{{{{Liz}}}}}}}}
Drop, good advice. You’re a pal.
{{{{{{dropzone}}}}}}

I wish I had the right words to say, my friends. :frowning:

7

Well, that hug helped me a lot!

{{{{{purp}}}}}

Sorry I haven’t made it to your party. I’m not much of a party boy.

8

Dave…as someone who’s been there, all I can tell you is that it will get better. One way or another, it will get better. You just keep that firmly in mind–it willget better.

And techchick…you are way too young to give up hope. Loneliness is a terrible, corrosive thing, but it can end as long as you don’t give up hope.

My apologies to both of you–I wish I had something better or more uplifting to say.

You guys take care.

9

God-Damnit Dave, you are such a great guy…

You really are! I know you know what I mean…

< cries tears for his situation >

10

Dropzone, that was one hell of a good, sensible, insightful post.

Techchick, please don’t give up hope. I KNOW there’s got to be one really nice, really smart guy who knows a good person when he sees it. He’ll find you, I’m sure of it.

Dave, I’m so sorry for your situation.

{{{{{{Dave}}}}}} for your hurt.
{{{{{{Techchick}}}}}}} for your loneliness.
{{{{{{Dropzone}}}}}}} for that excellent post.

11

Dropzone is right, Dave. If you can find a way to tell her what you’ve told us without it turning into a screaming match, you should. Or at least you should try. If it does turn into a screaming match, well, at least you’ve made an attempt.

I’m sorry for your pain, Dave. I really hope you’ll find yourself in a much better place on the other side of it.

12

Dave:

I hope you don’t mind if I offer a little advice…

Limit her access to you. Set up one hour every other day or one afternoon a week (or whatever suits your current circumstances) where she can have access to you and can call you or meet with you or whatever. And the rest of the time she has to leave you alone. And enforce it. Get a telephone answering machine and let it take her calls, and don’t respond to her calls until “her hour” rolls around.

After all, you needed this time off from the relationship because she was too controlling or too invasive, or too manipulative or whatever. No progress is going to be made by either of you if you allow her to handle and steer the break-up the same way she tried to handle and steer the marriage. You initiated the break-up because you needed some personal space; now you’re finding out that it’s not enough to merely break up. She’s only a phone call away, and you’re not going to have any more personal space than before unless you start insisting that she simply can’t have access to you on certain days or during certain parts of the day.

This will actually help you two get back together, if that’s in the cards. Right now you may be feeling a lot of self-loathing, your life is in upheaval, and everything that reminds you of her sends you into a whirl. If she continues to have free access to you and your emotions and your life any time she wants, then you’re going to end up blaming her for every single thing that goes wrong in your life. When you drop a dish in the kitchen and break it, you will fly into a fury and blame her for the dish because you were upset over her latest phone call or whatever.

But if you can limit her access to you, then you can start figuring out how much of your misery is her fault and how much of it is your fault. If you can implement a schedule for calling and getting together and make her stick to it, then you can carve out some chunks of your life that are yours alone, and you will have to take responsibility for the bad things that happen to you in those parts of your life (or you can take full credit for the good things that happen).

Once you carve out your own space, you may eventually find that you don’t like what happens in that part of your life, and you may find your way back to her. Or, on the other hand, you may find that you love that part of your life best, and you will split with her forever. But at least you’ll know. Meantime, if you continue to allow her unlimited access to your emotions and your life, you’ll never know. You’ll just turn her into a scapegoat for your endless misery.

As for feeling bad about the hurt you’re doing to her, I would put that on the same schedule. Worry about it during “her hour,” and the rest of the time learn to start worrying about yourself. That may sound cruel, but at some point you have to put your emotional needs above hers. You’re no good to her in the state you’re in. And you’ll never get back together with her if you never get the chance to look out for your own needs and start healing up a bit. Both of you need to end the mutual emotional dependency if you’re ever going to have a healthy relationship, whether you’re together or apart.

Like any unasked-for input on a message board, use this advice at your own risk. But it worked for me during my break-up. Good luck!

techchick:

I have a lot to say to Dave because I’ve been in a similar situation. Dave may find it useful; or he may find that it doesn’t apply; but maybe it will make him look at his own situation in a new light and help him find a new solution of his own. Or maybe he can synthesize something of his own from the very different types of advice that he receives from all the people on this board.

I don’t think I’ve felt the kind of loneliness you speak of, so I don’t really have anything to offer you. But if it’s any consolation, certain types of love burn hot and then flame out quickly, and it can take a long time to pick up the pieces. Right now, Dave may be wishing he could switch places with you.

I think I’ve gotten my fill of “passion” across time. These days I’m more into the kind of love where I’m simply comfortable with the other person…

FWIW, of course.

13

JTR,

I dont know you, but you have consisitantly offered sage advice and good counsel. I was gonna email you, but you don’t list your email addy. If you are so inclined, email me, I could use someone to talk to and want to offer lots of gratitude for your wonderful posts.

Dave

14

Dave, dropzone and JTR have pretty much already said wonderfully what I would have said. The only thing I would add is to re-emphasize this:

because I can tell you from a woman’s perspective that that is exactly what it usually means (been there!) and I know that’s not what you are after. She is clearly feeling very insecure, and while you can’t help a lot with that–she really needs to find her own self confidence–that is one thing you can and should reassure her about.

{{{Dave}}} Rant all you need to, honey, we’re here for you!

15

I don’t have much to add, Dave, except to say my thoughts and prayers are with you.

And that I know one couple that recently got back together after marrying and divorcing…after, get this, 28 years apart. Needless to say, I hope your separation doesn’t last quite that long.

I’m sorry to say I’m not sure if I’ll be able to help you move tomorrow; check your email.

Techie, I have known your kind of loneliness - up until my mid-30’s, my romantic life had been a handful of brief, unsuccessful relationships in the midst of long periods of loneliness and longing. I have no suggestions, and can make no promises that it will change. But things can change, and you’ve only got to get lucky once. Jacki’s and my paths finally crossed when I was 34, and we’ve been together ever since.

My best friend had a worse romantic history than mine, and didn’t meet her husband-to-be until she was nearly 40. They married when she was 42, and have adopted an adorable little girl from China.

So don’t give up hope. Just because you’ve been alone this long doesn’t mean that’s the way it will always be.

16

I have to disagree strongly with JTR. Now is the time for more communication, not less. Limiting her access to you will drive a wedge between you. Remember that the function of a wedge is not just to split apart, but to also keep apart!

The poor girl is as confused and scared as you, maybe more. If you want to make the marriage work you have to WORK AT WORKING IT OUT! You don’t accomplish anything by “going on vacation from each other.”

How old are you two? How long have you known each other? How long have you been married?

I have been in your position. I married fresh out of college and for several years felt hemmed in by my marriage. I missed my “freedom” yet still loved my wife. I was sure getting married was the worst AND BEST decision I had ever made and the conflicting emotions had me confused and scared and ready to walk out. But I had made a promise to her, myself, and the State of Illinois that I would make it work, so I did.

Keep talking with her. Get into counselling. Go to a funny movie together so you can remind yourselves what the good times felt like. Don’t become just another divorced salesman. It’s been done.

17

Dave, I’m sorry it has come to this. I know what you mean when you say, when you got married and said I do, you meant it. I did too and then things unravelled. My divorce became final last Monday and I’m painfully aware that I failed at something I wanted so much to have for life. Hold your head up and do what is right for you whether it be taking time for yourself to try and work things out and having to let her know that YOU need this time. I really hope things work out for you.

18

No problem, Dave. Check your in-box.

By the way, I’ve found hotmail a little slow to deliver messages sometimes when I used it a year ago or so. Maybe they’ve sped it up since then. Anyway, if you don’t hear from me, mail me at jtr357@yahoo.com.

dropzone

I believe Dave said that he was in his relationship 12 years or so. And that he was in counseling with his wife, and that he announced the separation in counseling.

Here’s the thread where he announced the split-up:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=39139

Also, here’s a thread where I detailed my own feelings on divorce a few weeks ago. It will help you see where I’m coming from:

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=37034

As I’ve said a couple times before, I’m not a professional counselor. I toss around my advice on this board like others toss out ideas in a brainstorming session–I’m not necessarily trying to hit the mark so much as I’m just trying to offer some fresh perspectives. And I welcome dissenting opinions like yours. The more voices the better. In fact, I generally like to wait until late into the thread before posting my own opinion so that I can build off of the ideas of others, as well as let the other posters pull out additional information from the original poster. So, in other words, don’t think that I’m wrestling you for Dave’s soul or something. I’m glad that you’ve made a strong case for Dave staying with his wife, so that Dave has some real alternatives to weigh.

But given what I’ve read in the several messages that Dave has posted on the subject of his separation, I still have to go with the advice I already offered.

19

HA! I pull my opinions straight out of my ass, myself! Know something about the situation? Wastes time! Professional training? Just gets in the way! After all, I am a busybody. :wink:

Thanks for the links. And I hope you don’t REALLY think I thought we were “wrestling for Dave’s soul.” I appreciate your views, too. No issue is in black and white, and a person needs to see as many sides as he can before making a decision. (Which explains why I am so indecisive.) And you’ll find from reading some of my posts that I am capable of learning from others.

Sounds like his counselor sucks, though. And Dave was lifecrisis? But lifecrisis said she was a GIRL!

[aside] Pssssst–don’t tell Dave but it sounds like he could stand doing some growing up. It’s about time–I thought he was a lot younger! His complaints are those of a guy in his late teens or early twenties who has never faced REAL problems. “Finding himself,” indeed! [/aside]

20

Weirddave, I know this is a hard time for you. And I am sorry to butt into your business but I want to share a tool I found that has help me to understand LIONsob’s view points. After all men and women do tend to look at thins in different ways.
It is at http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4110_emndsq.html
This can only help if it is filled out honestly though. BSing around to save feelings will on cloud the real issues.

The marriagebuilders site can be very helpful. There is a discussion board there dealing with many issues faced in marriage. It isn’t everyone’s cup of tea , but it help save my sanity and possibly LIONsob’s life a couple of years ago.

Know that we do care about you here oh weird one.