I think you could have handled this is a very simple way:
“Get lost. I’m armed.”
That sure as hell would scare me off.
I’m sorry, but it would have helped if she’d acted like a bartender instead of a disinterested bystander. A big part of bartending is monitoring customer behavior. From all of your accounts, this clown spent hours hassling other customers, yelling, getting physical, etc. From your account she continued serving him drinks during that time. She was grossly irresponsible. The moment he went out of line she should have 1. cut him off and 2. warned him that even the slightest peep outta him would get him kicked out. What on earth was she thinking, to keep pouring booze down an already obnoxious drunk, and then just run chatty commentary on the chaos he was causing?
**
People are harping on it because it was the obvious, sensible thing thing to do. You’re making this situation sound like a town terrorized by bad guys in a spaghetti western. The only choices are placating the bully or resorting to physical violence? The cops in your town don’t even answer 911 calls? Oh, please.
And FTR, bars don’t get bad reputations by asking cops to remove stubborn troublemakers. They get good reputations for not tolerating crap, and the word spreads. Bars get bad reputations when they keep serving drunks and let problems spiral out of control.
Have you read some of the threads about people who’ve tangled with cops? If the guy was as drunk and aggressive as you’ve portrayed him, you can bet the cops would have taken a very dim view of it. If you were too scared to go outside, believing he was drunk and potentially violent, what on earth were you thinking, to let him present a danger to bypassers or even get behind the wheel of a car?
**
This is so asinine it’s insulting. Maybe you should do a little more reading, chula. A lax, carelessly run bar can present dangers for anyone, male or female. It’s an iffy environment, but it’s one you chose and were free to choose. You were not victimized, and your whining about burkas, etc. is offensive. You have freedoms those women can’t even dream of. But reedom comes with responsibility. The first moment he started making you uncomfortable you could have walked away and had nothing more to do with him. When he pressed, you could have said, 'I’m not interested, leave me alone". After that you could have either left (where did your friends go?) or looked at the bartender and told her, “This is your place, a guy’s hassling me and I expect you to take care of it.”
**
Nonsense. Patently offensive, untrue, whining nonsense. You are not a victim. You are a grown woman who made some dubious choices. People do that sometimes. Welcome to the human race. You have the freedom to make mistakes, so grow up, suck it up, learn from it and go on.
Veb
Isn’t that what you WANTED him to do?
This comment must have been made by the imaginary poster who called you a “whore.”
Nope. Our advice is pretty universal: If a drunk, hostile man (or woman) is bothering you, then stay the hell away from him. If he won’t leave you alone, either leave or get HELP.
We’re assuming you, a mere mouse of a woman, have a functioning brain and we’re questioning why you don’t use it more often. We’re telling you that you have to use a smidgeon of common sense when you venture out of the kitchen because assholes can be found everywhere.
Can’t Chula buy her own cigarettes? How about her own drinks? Jeez. I think back to YEARS ago, when I’d hit Rush street every now and then with one of my friends. Men EVERYwhere. Out on the prowl. This is STANDARD behavior in a bar. Most women know this, and are guilty of it themselves to some degree. Guys would want to buy me drinks. If I wasn’t interested, I’d say: “No thank you.” My friend (a woman) would nudge me and say: “Hey, be nice to them, they’ll buy you drinks!” AND THEN WHAT? I’d have to fight off some dork who thinks I want to lay him because he bought me a shot or two? I’ll buy my own, thank you. I’ll have nice convos with guys who have intelligent, decent things to say. But if they’re persistant, threatening jerks, I have a right to tell them to LEAVE ME ALONE, and if they don’t…the bartender has a right to toss 'em out. If anyone had EVER started shit with me the way they did with Chula, I wouldn’t give him the satisfaction of taking the bait with his transparent attempt to egg me on, and I sure as hell wouldn’t be asking him for smokes!! Doing him a “favor”??? How old ARE you???
What Veb said.
And seriously-he’d just WALK AWAY from the cops? Oh sure.
Yeah, I can imagine it. “Oh, sorry Sarge-he walked away! WHat could we do?”
:rolleyes:
Chula:
Every time you describe this scene (and you do make it seem pretty real), I can feel your frustration and anger. I well remember what it’s like to be intoxicated, and frustrated with someone, and have that anger magnified by my drunkenness.
Is it possible that those conditions—anger, frustration and drunkenness—led you to say some shit that further aggravated the situation? What might you not be telling us?
The OP has a point. Women are not safe at all times. Neither are men.
I’ve been harassed in a bar. I’ve seen people turn into ass*oles, and even get into fights. In response I’ve said “no”, or moved to a different part of the establishment, and I’ve even left the place if there was too much trouble stirring. And I am a guy. No one chained me to a chair. chula was free to do the same but chose to be there. If you insist on your right to drink around drunk jerks who call you names and make unwanted sexual advances, then do it. No one is stopping you. So remind me, what’s the problem exactly?
Smoking kills.
Seriously, though, well after your first altercation with the fellow you chose to continue to interact with him rather than simply ask your bartender friend to cut him off. Children who play with matches will get burned.
There is an onus on teenagers to not play in traffic, which is what you were doing by continuing to interact with a verbally abusive drunk rather than to take advantage of the many protections available to you.
You are sorely mistaken when you state that only with women is there an onus on the victim to avoid danger. That is one of the sillier statements I have come across recently.
All you had to do was have a quiet word with your bartender friend, and if she failed to solve the problem (or if the problem hung around outside), then all you had to do was call the police. That’s hardly a severe onus, and it applies equally to both genders when being confronted by abusive drunks.
You are playing the gender victimization card on the wrong hand. Save it for when you have a fact scenario that can support it.
The problem is women not being able to move in public without certain people feeling they have a right to verbally attack them.
The problem is men who think they own a woman because they buy a drink. Look, having a drink together is a chance for a social exchange. If the man pays, all he is paying for is the time have a conversation. That is all. If she is not impressed with him, she should have the ability to shut off the situation without being labeled a whore just because she bruised some delicate male egoes.
To guys: Did a buddy ever buy you a drink or a pitcher of beer? Did that give hime the right to put his hands on your knee and attempt to initiate sex?
Claws: Your analogy is flawed. Your question to guys should be “Did a complete stranger ever buy you a pitcher of beer and talk you up? If he did, were shocked and offended when he wanted something from you?”
My ex husband had a complete stranger buy him a pitcher in a bar and spent the evening talking to him and buying him refills on his beer. The complete stranger then helped my rather drunk ex out to the parking lot and rolled him for $200. Did my ex deserve to be robbed - no way. Should he have known better? You bet.
::sigh:: Nobody called chula a whore.
Maybe I’m missreading the OP, but I thought that unmitigated asshole at the bar called her a whore.
Psst. Lisa. The drunk guy called her a whore. It wasn’t anybody here
The problem is, when the drunk guy touched her unwantedly and called her a whore…SHE DIDN’T SHRUG OFF THE SITUATION.
Instead, she came back and asked him for a cigarette TWICE.
THAT is what our problem is with chula…or mine at least.
Bingo. I don’t recall anyone here saying the guy was anything but a complete jerk. The problem some posters have, myself included, is casting the whole encounter in terms of victimhood.
ClawsOfCatt raised a really good point about the bar etiquette of buying drinks. It never means buying a bed partner, but accepting a drink at least obligates a person to a little civil conversation. And that’s a crucial point. See, as soon as this putz’s conversation even generally unwelcome, much less offensive, common sense much less bar ettiquette required, “No more conversation? Then no more accepting drinks, asking to bum smokes, etc.”
It wasn’t great judgment, but hey, who hasn’t screwed up sometime or other? The bigger problem is regarding what amounts to little more than a tacky “bad bar” scene as victimhood of the highest order. The claims of terrorization, etc. simply won’t hold water. All it would have taken was to 1. walk away, refusing ANY further contact, including free drinks and smokes; 2. and/or leave with friends, call the police, or insist the bartender stop the harrassment. Options galore, all of 'em sensible and easy.
A nasty scene? Yeah. Evidence of victimization of women? No way.
Veb
Then we agree. chula did have the ability to shut off the situation, but chose not to do so. In fact, she pursued him (bumming cigarettes, etc).
And yes, it may stretch your imagination but both men and women have bought me drinks expecting to get more from me. Indeed you are again correct, life should not present these tragic difficulties. This is most tragic for men, since men are 3.2 times more likely than females to be murdered. US Dept. of Justice statistics
I have acted stupidly in the past, but unlike chula I try to acknowledge the effect of my choices. If you bum cigarettes from an obviously abusive person, what do you think is likely to happen you?
I can say that Chula’s asking him for a cigarette was done from the right motives – she was trying to bury the hatchet. I wouldn’t have done this. I would have ignored him. Chula’s motives were in the right place, even if the action wasn’t wise.
And for me that brings up an issue I think we are talking around. Namely, just how under the influence of the drink was Chula at the time? I get a sense that some posters here are horrified at the idea of a woman being drunk in public because women just don’t do that! We’re supposed to leave it to the men.
O for the sacred heart of jesus. Please cut and paste where someone said this.
I don’t care if you’re a man, woman or hermaphrodite, go out and get plowed every fucking night of the week, but if you’re smart…don’t try to bum cigarettes off of a guy TWICE after he’s touched you unwantedly and called you a whore.
How much fucking clearer can I make this?
To my knowledge, I’m the only poster in the thread that raised the question of chula’s alcohol intake. I didn’t do it from a standpoint of “she’s a woman, she shouldn’t do that”; rather, it was from the standpoint of “If your judgement is this impaired when you drink, maybe you shouldn’t drink so much.”
Just trying to clear that up.