Soapbox Monkey, meet self-fulfilling prophecy. Self-fulfilling prophecy, meet Soapbox Monkey.
Reminds me of learned helplessness, one of my favorite depression explanation theories.
Seligmann’s book Learned Optimism did wonders for my girlfriend, who suffered from severe depression and he’s one of my favorite theorists.
Soap , where do you live, man? We’re going to a bar or pool hall and not leaving until you strike up a conversation with a female that doesn’t involve the bar tab.
Failing that, pretend to be gay. Or take a dance class if your college offers one. You’ll be the only straight man; at the very least, you’ll be outnumbered by friendly girls 1:60.
I’m at Drexel in Philly.
Yeah you are probably right, Its not such a good idea, but there are plenty of good ideas here. If i lived near you I would make you do some of these things. You gotta get the self esteem going, man. Here’s something to think about. Every passing second is another chance to turn it all around. That’s right, if you didn’t beat yourself up so much you would be fine.
And the only reason I told you to have sex with someone that you don’t love is because I think you have a self fulfilling prophecy here. You want to find a virgin that loves you and who you love, right? But when you talk to girls you are so focused on falling in love and having sex that you screw your chances by your attitude towards the whole situation. If you had sex with someone you don’t love first at the first opportunity, then you’ll realize that since you’ve already had sex, it doesn’t really matter anymore if you have a girlfriend because at least you wouldn’t be a virgin anymore. Sort of a way that you won’t be completely depressed about women.
And furthermore, having sex with someone you don’t love is indeed not as good as with someone you know. But losing your virginity to another virgin that is in love with you will be a much harder task. Especially at your age. You are simply going to have to change your mind. I think what your idea of sex is and what it really is are a lot different. You say you can’t have sex with a woman unless you love her, but I don’t believe it. Sure you may not think so, but I bet you would. I am not saying that the only way for you to get in a normal relationship with girls is to have sex first then get in a relationship later. But it won’t matter in the long run. Loosing your virginity isn’t really that cool, and will probably be very short? Why not get a little practice before you try it on someone you atcually love? You need to force yourself into some life-changing experiments. You know its just like getting in a cold lake. If you dip your toe in, and try to inch your way in you’ll never make it. Its much easier if you just jump off the pier. Don’t think about things before you do them. I am sure you overanalyze everything before doing it right?
Barring that, if you still are having problems socially go see a counsellor or find a friend that will feel sorry for you and make you do things. You are going to have to learn social skills the hard way: through embarassment. You’ll have to find someone to make you do it or just go to a therapist and talk to him.
By the way, don’t worry about going to a therapist, its a great thing to do. Nobody is perfectly sane and I think we as a society would be a lot better off if more people went. Don’t look at it like it is supposed to get you cured. Just go to have someone to talk to about it. HE can give you good advice I’m sure.
Okay. Not to freak you out or anything, but I’ve seen you posting on this topic before, and I finally feel compelled to say something. Folks here (and in previous threads) have posted some very good advice about how to go out and meet a girl for romantic purposes. However, in reading your comments, I’d say you’re not ready to take that step, in part for one very simple reason:
You have no idea how to be friends with a girl.
I’m not talking about romance here, I’m talking about simple friendship. And until you can learn this skill, you will continue to have unrealistic expectations about more intimate relationships, and you are doomed to be disappointed before you even get started.
I speak from experience. I grew up in a pretty sheltered environment, which included 4 years at an all-girl Catholic high school. sigh I’m pretty reserved by nature, a trait I’ve come to terms with… but back then (high school/early college) I was just plain shy. Plus, I had only an older sister, no male cousins close by, so I just didn’t have a clue as to what the average teenage guy was interested in terms of anything. (Seriously - I had plenty of friends with boyfriends, but frankly whatever I heard was going through a girly-filter, much the way your dormmates’ chatter goes through the macho-filter.) The fact of the matter is that the very prospect of speaking to a guy my own age made me completely tongue-tied. As a result, whenever I was out with a bunch of my friends who were more talkative, I was typically the one left standing around by myself by the end of the evening.
That didn’t get any better until I spent time around guys on a casual basis, either at school or at work (I had a job at a music store). No pressure to be anything in particular for these guys meant I could overcome my shyness long enough to just TALK… Now, it took awhile, but one day I realized that I finally felt comfortable around guys, that I had guys as FRIENDS. A guy friend throwing his arm around my shoulders for fun didn’t induce a panicky omigod-what-should-I-do response; I could just put my arm around his waist and give a squeeze to return the gesture. I could laugh at risqué jokes without feeling scandalized or uncomfortable (and if it did bug me, I could tell the jokester off). If I came across some guy behavior I didn’t understand, I could turn to one of my friends and ask without fear of being ridiculed (too much, in a friendly way). It’s very much a matter of practice, and you really need that before you can take the next step.
Once you do take the next step - getting involved with a girl romantically - be aware that it’s really only in movies and fairy tales that the girl gets swept off her feet by the prince on the first try and they live happily ever after. Relationships are messy things, and hearts get broken. Yes, there’s nothing like a first love… but IMO more “mature” love, born of joys, sorrows and life experience, is much more fulfilling, in part because you understand the person you’re with isn’t perfect and will never be, but you love them anyway.
Your poor self-esteem is obviously a major stumbling block, and it’s coloring your perceptions of what you want and what you must have in a relationship. You want the first girl you meet up with to be The One, so that you won’t have to risk yourself further. You want her to essentially make you the focus of her life, so you have no competition for her attention. You’re thinking she’d have to be as shy as yourself, because in a way, that guarantees she won’t have been with anyone else (and thus would have no one to compare you with). Ditto on not liking the fact that this girl you liked can engage in risqué talk, because that implies to you that she has “experience” and thus might be in a position to criticize. Dude, this is just not healthy - for either one of you. You need to set this aside as a vision for an ideal relationship, because it will not work out well in the long run.
As corny as it sounds, you have to like yourself before others will. While for some folks it may just be a matter of getting a new hairdo, etc., with you I think the issue runs much deeper. Some people here have pointed out that you are showing some classic signs of clinical depression, which will by God get in the way of anything you want to attempt in the realm of personal relationships, romantic or otherwise. I’m sure Drexel has plenty of counselors available for the students. Your first priority should be focusing on yourself and doing what’s necessary to lift yourself out of this depression.
Building your sense of self is a long-term project, and it is a most worthwhile undertaking because it will change your life. Don’t lock yourself into a time frame. Just think about taking the first steps, and go do them.
Best of luck to you.
Not effective for shy types. I really, really hate it when friends try to bust out this tactic.
You look young? well join the club. Tell you what, I’ll share my story and maybe you can pick some things out from it to talk about.
Soap, I’ve ALWAYS been small for my age, height, weight, development you name it. Like you i looked 14 or 15 when i started college back in 1998. I stood 5’2 tall and weighed in at about 119 lbs. The best I could do the facial hair dept was a really thin moustache and a couple of stray hairs on my chin. I got NO attention from the ladies either. If this sounds familiar you have Delayed Growth. It’s nothing to be upset or ashamed of. Relax, and with a little help nature will take it’s course. I’m sure you’ve heard and loathed the term “Late Bloomer”. Well chances are, that’s just what you are. I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 19. It’s NOT important when you lose it.
Now, with only intermittant working out, i stand 5’7 w/out shoes) and weigh just under 150. I’ve got a decent full beard that’s filling in nicely. Guess what? at 24 I look 20. THAT RULES. All the guys who were shaving at 15 and running linebacker, are going fat and some are losing their hair! :eek: I however look young and vital, and since my age is indeterminant i can date a wide range of women. As you get older you’ll come around to LOVE the fact that you are physically younger than your chronological age.
On to what i think might help you out. Are you skinny? Have a hard time gaining weight? You 'll need to eat three times your daily calorie intake. Do some high weight low repetition weights four days a week. You don’t have to do much, just work one group of muscles one day. You WILL see results!
If you are overweight and have “baby fat” then do the reverse and use low weights, with a LOT of repetition, and add some running in. Again, 20-30 min a day is plenty.
So you can’t grow any facial hair? so what? no biggie, just shave EVERY DAY even if you don’t need to. Vellus hair (peach fuzz) isn’t any more attractive than a grungy beard. The routine is good to get into, and the aftershave will add to a polished appearance. I already mentioned things about dressing decently and I trust you can do that.
Now, MOST IMPORTANTLY This is the one thing that took me a LONG time to learn. I know you are shy, but strike up a conversation. Just talk about the professor, the weather, a concert coming up, whatever! it doesn’t matter. This will help you learn to hold a good conversation with a female. Remember to LISTEN, MAKE EYE CONTACT, AND USE HER NAME. Those are keys to getting her to remember you. Lastly, When you go to ask someone out, remember that the worst thing they can do is say “no” . That’s not such a big deal is it? Her loss, not yours. It never hurts to TRY. Rejection for a simple date shouldn’t be a crushing blow to your ego. DON"T LET IT BE. Try a casual date like buying her lunch in the union. It’s casual, light, cheap and will let you get some alone time to have a conversation. Remember, you’ll need to date lots of different people before you can figure out what it is you want in a mate, or even if you want one. losing your virginity to a randomw girl isn’t a big deal if you just want to experience sex. If you want it to be special, then you’ll have to find a girlfriend. You can’t do Either until you try though. Try, try, and try some more. With practice, and time your abilities with women will mature as your body does. Remember that you are person and worth respect. Some will say no some will say yes and eventually you’ll find someone to be with, I have, and I cannot convey my happiness at that fact. Feel free to post back and if you want my e-mail i’ll gladly give it you. Hang in there.
-Deagan
DeaganTheWolf, just for future reference, what should I do if a girl says no, to avoid just standing there after the rejection unable to say anything to her.
And what size weights would you suggest. It’s gonna have to be something I’m actually capable of lifting, and that’s also only if the weight room’s open at an ungodly hour in the morning when no one else would be there.
And Merkwurdigliebe, you still don’t quite understand what exactly I’m saying about having sex with a random girl. Ok, this girl I meet who I can talk comfortably with makes me tense up when she touches me. My best friend back home (who is a girl, but off limits because she’s dating my other best friend) hugs me on occasion. She is my best friend, has been since 10th grade and I can say that I do love her, because she’s my best friend. And yet it wasn’t last summer that I was completely able to be comfortable getting a hug from her without at least tensing up a little. And she’s MY. BEST. FRIEND. If a hug from a girl I love can still make me slightly nervous, how do you honestly think I would be capable of SEX with someone I barely know?
Well that depends on how much you can do. I use free weights (dumbells) 20’s 30’s and 45’s I do sets like this: 15 reps with the 20, 10 with the 30, and 8 (or till you cannot do anymore with the 45’s. Do this sequence for each excersise. I reccomend bicep curls, bench press, military press, Row bench and flys for upperbody. Hold a 30 or a 45 and do your sit ups with the added weight. 35-50 pushups is adequate. You can add whatever else you may wish to the above.
Hey if she says “no”, it’s no big deal right? Just smile and say "okay’…or “hey, can’t blame a guy for trying” and laugh it off. Keep your sense of humor about it. Never sulk or be nasty unless she’s just a bitch to you.
Cheers!
But it is, because it brings with it embarrassment. The same thing that keeps me from going to a weightroom when others might be there or ever attempted to join in a game of sports.
Its embarassment - not death.
Now you really need to cope with the paralyzing insecurity before you are ever going to get a girl you can have a relationship with. You’ve got a reason why you can’t do any of the advice ever offered you in any thread I have ever seen by you and yet you don’t seem to correlate that with why things are not working out the way you want them to. None of us can arrive at your school and fix all your problems for you. Sometimes life involves risks and doing things that make us uncomfortable.
Live a little 
Monkey, monkey, monkey - you know this problem of yours, that is probably taking over your every thought and action? Well, welcome to the club of being an adult human being. We all obsess about the other sex, are nervous about talking to them, pine for having someone to love and love us - you sound completely normal for a 19 year old male. Making a female friend after only four months is a good achievement. I’m a great person myself, and it takes me much longer to make friends than that, so you can’t be all that bad.
If you haven’t experienced sex yet, that really isn’t a big deal, except I suppose it is in your mind because it’s the big unknown. In some ways merkwurd gave you good advice in just getting laid already - it sounds like you’ve made it up to be some life-changing, world-shaking experience, and the longer you wait, the larger it looms in your life. You might be at the stage where you need to basically face your fear and realize that it isn’t that big a deal after all.
What I’m saying Monkey is that you know that feeling that you get when you touch a girl from hugging her? It doesn’t get any worse. I’ve been with girls before when I was absoultely shaking from just kissing them. When you both get naked it doesn’t even matter. Its the same amount of tension. Eventually you’ll learn to like it. In my opinion, getting laid as soon as possible however possible would be good for you. Sure it wouldn’t be what you want, but you really don’t need what you want.
And the TENSION!!! Don’t worry about that. I got tense as well when around girls for the first time. But once you have sex with a girl you’ll learn to appreciate it. It is exciting!!! You think to yourself, hey maybe I can get with this girl! That would be great! But you dont’ have to be afraid of getting shot down because you’ve already had sex before.
And furthermore about getting rejected. What do you do when you get rejected? Just simply say, “ok well, that’s fine” or whatever bullshit is requried and leave. No problems. Then you can go home and overanalyise it all you want but you’ll feel good that you asked instead of never knowing.
All in all soapbox, i wish that I knew you because I would really like to help you. If I went to Drexel I would make it my goal to help you finally get what you needed, but I can’t so you can only help yourself. My advice is to get a friend who will help you and care whether you have success with girls.
Wow…we soooooooooo don’t think on the same level. The same thing as hugging? I guess quite a large majority agree with you, seeing as how almost everyone my age has had it, but I think it’s very, very far from simply hugging. You talk about getting naked with someone like it’s nothing different than shaking hands with them. I really wish I could think of it on the same level you do.
Monkeyman. WHY be embarrassed? you asked a simple question, and got a negative answer. It’s no big deal. As an artist people criticise my work all the time. I hear positive and negative comments on the same work. Not everyone is going to be interested in you, just like not everyone is going to like the same piece of art. Don’t take it personally if she says no, just go on with your life and try the next one, or try the same one another day, the only one who’ll be embarrassed is you. And you have NO need to be.
Soapbox Monky
Have you ever seen a girl naked? NO! So you don’t know how you’ll react!! You may have been terrified when you touched a girl but there’s only a certain amount of terrified that’s possible. You think that you will have to be completely comfortable with a girl to have sex but its not true. Its basically just as scary as anything you have done with girls. Once you kiss a girl its just automatic. You don’t know because you have never done it. Trust me once you kiss a girl, if she wants to have sex with you it will happen. It doesn’t matter what you think, you don’t even really think anymore. Its all about feelings. Its excitment, fear, lust, everything all rolled into one.
No, I don’t mean gettin naked is like shaking hands. When I meet someone new that I dig, i still get very nervous. Everyone does. But just realize this. Once you kiss a girl, that’s all you have to do. Everything else will follow. Don’t worry about falling in love, or having sex. Just go and and try to kiss a girl. That may be an easier goal. Alcohol helps a lot with shyness btw.
I’ve gotta say that I don’t feel it’s very responsible for people to be encouraging you to have sex with just anyone to “get it over with”. If you think it’s hard to get a girlfriend now, it won’t be any easier if you have to tell everyone you date that you have herpes or something like that. I think that there are still plenty of people who think sex means something even if they aren’t as common as they used to be.
Regarding the issue of anxiety even when a friend touches you, it’s possible that you do experience more anxiety about these types of situations than most people do. Social Anxiety Disorder is a fairly prevalent disorder that often goes hand in hand with depression. I would definitely suggest talking to a counselor about this and see if they can identify what the issue is. Good luck.
Nope. There are lots of good reasons to be friends with girls. Getting laid isn’t one of them.
The best ways I’ve heard of to meet girls:
Join a frat. (I am a strong supporter of greek membership for many reasons.)
Become a cheerleader. (Competition is high in college I’m sure.)
Join student government.
Take psychology or sociology as a major.
Take a self-defense class.
Basically, you’re going to have to get out there and join clubs and meet people. Your campus will have a shitload of them, so look into them and start going to meetings.
There is so much to do on campus, you are in the midst (sp??!) of a rich cultural mecca, so to speak. You will never have the opportunity to take in as much as you have right now. Find out all the artistic, cultural, and educational programming going on and go.
Find out what martial arts are offered, and sign up for the meanest one. Preferably judo, since you have to actually fight. Sign up to audit the course for a semester; it should be less than $100, and it will be a good first step. I’m a big fan of judo–it’s good exercise and a great confidence builder.
I think being in a frat was an amazing experience. YMMV, but so many opportunities stem from there. Depending on the group, you will have to put up with varying degrees of hassle your first semester. From there you’ll want to get involved with IFC (Inter-Fraternity Council), since that’s how you’ll meet other people from other groups. Student government is another good networking group where you can meet people from all sorts of other areas.
I gotta go w/ you on that one. Ditto for “that I have sex with a random girl I’m not in love with, and someone I’m comfortable with.” I mean, talk about begging the question! As a pathologically-shy-around-women person, I do not feel at all uncomfortable pointing out that if I could go out and do that stuff, then I wouldn’t have my problem to begin with.
Okay, Monkey, here is your homework assignment.
[ul][li]Email three people from this page asking them about the club, how you join, and what a typical week of club membership is like. (Hint: Ultimate frisbee is co-ed and they sometimes play naked. No joke.)[/li][li]Send an email to the address listed here asking how to find out about the groups on campus, when and how to get involved, and who you can talk to to get the straight dope on the various chapters.[/li][li]Email one person on this page asking how to get involved without having to wait for the new fiscal year & election cycle to come around. Also, email Vincent Yanni and ask how to obtain a list of all registered student organizations, since I can’t find one on the Drexel site.][/li][/ul]
You have until Friday. That’s just six emails. You can do that.
Well, then we can scratch that one from the list.