I don’t think anyone should be forced to rent to anyone they don’t want to rent to.
It’s true that I don’t happen to agree with her criteria, but that doesn’t make her hateful. You need to understand that nobody is required to agree with you, grendel.
And besides, this thread is for bashing ME, not discussing H4e’s perceived prejudices. If you don’t have something hateful to say about me, go post in MPSIMS or something.
It does INDEED make her hateful, Joe-the Bible tells us we have to love everyone-we have to clothe and feed the sinners-otherwise, we’re denying sustenance to Christ Himself.
I didn’t realise that I was an official representative of the US Gov’t. What’s my job title, Esprix is already “the gay guy”…
No, I am happy to live and let live. I never argued with the fuckers that bashed me when I was in Highschool- I didn’t even acknowledge my sexuality at all, but that doesn’t matter when some ignorant troglodite decides you’re “acting gay”.
So you favor discrimination as well? If someone decides not to rent to a customer because of the color of their skin that’s OK with you?
Funny, I didn’t think OJ Simpson was a representative of the government either, but he lost a $25,000,000 lawsuit on the grounds that he violated the civil rights of his late wife and her boyfriend by killing them - a crime for which he was acquitted by the state of California.
Well, that was wrong and it shouldn’t have happened. But it also doesn’t make me or H4e a proxy for you to bash in your revenge fantasy.
But, keep in mind as you sit there feeling justified in spewing insults at a woman because of her opinions, that the “fuckers that bashed you in High School” probably also felt justified in their actions. Nor were they agents of the government, so abusing you and stripping you of your rights and dignity must have been ok, right?
Hypocrisy is amazing in its ability to hide itself from the very people who revel in it.
The right of free speech != the right to have unfounded ignorace go unchallenged. H4E has a right to say whatever she wants IRL, those who oppose her have a right to challenge her views- even to shout her down if they are so inclined.
Ain’t it funny how freedom of expression works in the real world?
Wrong. Entirely wrong. It’s a standard tort called “wrongful death,” and it has not a goddamn thing to do with violating civil rights.
Wow. I wandered in here wondering what the three pages were about, and found an absolutely fascinating microcosm of the whole board, sorta. The topics have ranged all over the place. Very interesting.
I’d just like to chime in on a few matters.
Remembering threads and conversations that are no longer extant. Well, if anyone here is familiar with the studies done on eyewitness testimony, you might be a little less inclined to get excited about the fact that 3 or 7 or 14 people are * sure *they remember much of anything. It’s been shown that people can be ready to lay down their lives in the belief that they saw the man in a red sweater, and have it be proven later that he was in a yellow wife-beater and that “he” was a “she” to boot. Suggestion is a powerful thing.
Who people are in real life vs. online. I have been online for, god, 14 years? I think ’88 was my first log on to a BBS. I met my fiance online 8 years ago, I had one other long term relationship with someone I met online, a couple of short ones, and have met and spent time with dozens and dozens of others.
I am here to tell you, while online communication reveals a great deal, it is never, ever, ever, by any stretch, a complete or accurate picture of anyone. Not even close. There are just too many gaps that cannot be filled in by anything other than some kind of direct contact. Virtually everyone I ever formed an opinion about before I met them surprised me in some way when I finally got to spend time with them. Some much more than others, certainly, but all of them to some degree. And they still do.
Of course, one could say that I am just poor at judging people from their writing, I guess. But I also know that people have consistently reported to me that I was very surprising to them, after what they thought they “knew” about who I was from reading my words on a message board.
So I will take what D_Nice says as the truth, because my experience has proven it to be the likely fact.
Which brings me to my last point… this thread is just one more in a never ending stream that leaves me aghast at the way people are willing to talk to each other. I don’t know why, but I continue to be utterly astonished. Perhaps it’s because item #1 in this list (not to mention the whole OP) is just one more in an unending stream of people getting offended and flipping out at the weirdest things. The dichotomy is amazing.
And that’s all I wanted to say.
I am going to have to go with Stoid on every point in that post.
I try to remain PC in situations where I’m around people that I really don’t know, like on a message board. Amongst friend who I share similar points with, I can let down my hair a bit so to speak. It is never my intent to offend someone else. That just isn’t the type of person that I am, so I will often go a bit out of my way to pick and choose my words.
The memory or recollection doesn’t mean all that much to me. Printed fact or photographic/video evidence is what proves things to me without a shadow of doubt. I won’t completely dismiss all that is said to me from someone’s recollection, but I do tend to be more skeptical.
I’m very glad to see that other people have shared the same interactions with people in real life who were originally met via the internet as you have Stoid.
Apophasis
Oh, and one more thing to add to the whole online/RL thing… who we are on a public message board isn’t exactly an insight into our deepest souls. No matter how frank or real we are, most of us recognize that we our writing is reaching an audience of hundreds of people, sometimes even thousands. This affects our writing, one way or another. For some of us, it makes us more private, more reticent. Others feel the need to be as entertaining as possible, even stretching the truth here and there for effect. Then there are those who feel so anonymous, they feel as though it is the only time and place they can cut loose with certain ideas or verbal behaviors.
Who we are here is a modified, truncated version of ourselves. Sometimes our best selves, sometimes our worst. And sometimes it isn’t really ourselves at all, but someone we made up.
stoid
I know I said that was all I wanted to say, but I keep remembering more stuff. Sorry.
Uh, gobear? This “we will know who you are” doo-doo? Pretty lame. Boils down to “Well, if you don’t agree with me in my opinion about this poster you are against me and certainly just as vile as he/she is, and everyone else feels the same way.” Which is remarkably lame, not to mention flatly untrue. It doesn’t really reflect at all on the person about whom you are speaking but it makes you look, well, not so fabulous. Might want to re-think that tactic.
I am curious, Joe.
I am intelligent enough to know that I am not intelligent enough to “get into it” in GD, so I missed almost all of the threads that spawned this pit thread. I don’t expect you know anything about me, so let me say that I am a fundamentalist Christian. I believe the Bible is the word of God. I know that my salvation comes from Christ, and that nothing I could ever do would save me otherwise.
My question is…
Don’t you think that when someone condemns homosexuals they are judging others, and thus defying the commandment “Judge Not That Ye Be Not Judged?” To say nothing of “Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself”? My belief is that only GOD has the right to judge others, and that we are directed NOT to do so. By God.
I am not accusing YOU of these things, I don’t know enough about you to judge you. I am just asking for your opinion on this. I agree heartily with the quote above, BTW, and this was the exact thing I stated in a recent thread. I also do not know your fiancee at all, so I cannot speak to her words in this matter. I do, however, believe that His4Ever appears to condemn homosexuals, and I am just wondering how a person could reconcile the two conflicting viewpoints, which seem to ME to be diametrically opposed. (I’m not picking on her here either…I said the same thing to her in that thread.)
Nice way to put words in my mout. If you’ll notice, I’m not the only person here on [nb]Joe**'s case, so the use of “we” is apropos IMO. I notice you don’t say one word about RexDart’s characterization of me, not that I’m surprised.
I think this is a good place to start. First, we are directed to judge under some circumstances. Let me quote this passage to clarify exactly when we are and are not supposed to:
Please read this carefully and really think about what it says. We are commanded to judge those who call themselves brothers, but NOT to judge those outside the church, because that is God’s business. That is not to say that we are to condone sin, because our job is to spread the gospel. Everybody knows the “Jesus loves you and you can be saved” part, but equally important is the part that is neglected: you are a sinner. Otherwise, people say “Saved from what? I don’t need Jesus, I’m a good person.” Everybody is a sinner, and we are to show the love of Christ to unbelievers, because God loves them the same as us and wants them to come to repentence. But they won’t repent if they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong. And what I see His4ever doing is reporting what the bible says about sinful behavior.
The big question is this: Is H4e really condemning or not?
We know that she believes the bible to be God’s word, as do you and I, and she believes the declaration that homosexual behavior is sinful to be according to God’s will.
All we know about her that can be construed as condemning is that she says she would prefer not to rent to a homosexual couple if she were a property owner (at least that’s the only thing I’ve seen). I believe that a property owner should not be forced to rent to anyone against his or her will. I have seen various renters turned down because they were too young, were single, were an unmarried couple, or had children. If all these rules are legal, then it should also be legal to deny an application because you don’t want a homosexual couple living in your basement. I believe in the freedom to associate (and by extension the freedom NOT to associate) with whom you choose, and if you are not comfortable with having a homosexual couple (or unmarried couple, or single male, or 19 year old girl or whatever) living in your apartment, then that’s your own business and I don’t think you should be required to have it. I wouldn’t reject a renter for being homosexual, but I can’t really condemn her for sticking to her own moral code.
I think her biggest sin around here is having an unrefined debating style (which is apparently a hanging offense on this board!). I do not think she’s a troll, but an honest Christian who posts in GD not as an intellectual exercise to hone her arguing skills, but out of genuine concern for the people she speaks to. I have yet to see her tell anybody “You are going to hell for doing X! You are going to hell for doing Y! I’m not, because I’m better than you!” or anything of the sort. As some others have said before, I think she was baited into a trap, and nothing she could have said other than “yes I agree, everything you want to do is ok” would have been right to her attackers, and my hat is off to her for having the courage to stand up to them.
Way to completely miss the point, gobear. :rolleyes:
And I didn’t realize this was a test, and I had to fill in all the boxes. Let me know next time, I’ll bring my #2 pencil.
Once again you drastically overstate the objection to her idiocy. She is still around, is she not. Nobody has been lynched.
Meanwhile those who in fact have suffered real world harm in many different ways are belittled.
Once again, how is name calling worse than turning someone out on the street as H4E has said she would do? How is being called names worthy of your sympathy while being beaten is only worthy of your scorn?
Ok, grendel, it appears you’re either a chronic moron without even the most basic ability to comprehend what you read, or a jerk who willfully ignores the meaning of what I wrote in order to nitpick stupid, petty points that don’t exist if you just read what I said.
Nobody said they’d turn you out in the street, but you seem to think that because you’re gay, you have some entitlement to living in somebody else’s home against their will. :rolleyes:
I give up and I’m done wasting my time explaining myself to you.
Once again, Joe, do you think it’s just fine for someone to refuse to rent to a customer because of the color of their skin? Religion? Gender?
Would you have no objection if your landlord decided to kick you out because you’re a Christian?
I think it’s ok not to rent to somebody if you don’t like the shade of blue in the sky on the particular day they came to apply. If it’s my property, I’ll rent to and reject whoever I want. It’s already legal to refuse a tenant because of age, marital status, or having children, but you think being a homosexual should carry special protection? Sorry, pal. No dice. Whether it’s legal or not, that’s not right.
And my landlord can’t kick me out for being a christian once I’m here, but before I moved in, they would have been within their rights to reject my app for any reason whatsoever.