If what happens ultimately ends up being caused by hallucinations in any manner, the lost writers deserve a severe beat down.
“It was all a dream!”
The way they keep talking about “Him” with such fear reminds me of the wormfaces in Heinlein’s “Have Space Suit - Will Travel”. Wormface was an alien with such an intimidating presence that you felt like a rabbit in front of a snake when around him. Everyone talked about him just like they talk about ‘him’ in Lost. “You don’t want to annoy him. He is not someone you want angry with you.”
The problem is that there’s no possible rationale explanation for the events we’ve seen. Dave was exactly right. Even assuming a cute chick like Libby would ever go for the still-widening (On an island? How is that possible?) mess that is Hurley, nothing can possibly explain his winning the lottery with the numbers.
Polar bears, easy to imagine them being brought in. Walt’s “powers” (with the bird flying into the window) could be mere coincidence. Hey, maybe he’s just a creepy kid after all. Locke’s spontaneous recovery could possibly be chalked up to some sort of pseudo-scientific babble.
But no way do cursed numbers exist in any realistic scenario. I guess they could say that the lottery was rigged, maybe. Short of that, nothing works.
Even with a rigged lottery, that super-mechanical magnetic tree crushing dust cloud is a deal-breaker. We’re now in the realm of the supernatural, the extra-terrestrial, or the delusional. All three would piss me off equally.
Any Dean Koontz readers in thread? Did you get that “kick in the nuts” feeling when they revealed Libby, as I did? You know, that one horrible page about halfway through all Koontz books that reveals all the spooky unexplainable occurences earlier in the story were caused by the stupidest, most retarded sounding government conspiracy you ever heard of?
Yeah, we’re firmly in that territory now. From here on in, it’s just a game of “guess what caused them to be committed.” Jack snapped after he “caused” his father’s death. Kate after she “caused” her friend’s death. Locke after his paralysis. etc… If you think it would be patheticly stupid if they all turn out to be in Hurley’s booby hatch, just stop for a moment and consider the alternative. It’s got Koontz schlock written all over it.
Cuckoorex, while I like your idea, it’s leaving me cringing. As he shakes off his limp, he goes to meet up with the mind-control evil kid and the God-Girl. And toss in a super-intelligent talking dog while we’re at it.
Someone please offer me up a possible alternative. Is there any hope left of a rationale explanation?
“It’s all in their heads” just doesn’t cut it for me. Does anyone really think the writers decided to reveal the whole secret in episode 18 of season 2? No way. This is just the “theory du jour”, and next week there’ll probably be another one.
I’m convinced that we don’t have enough info to figure this out yet. There are more layers to be revealed, and the writers are just toying with us.
“It’s all in their heads” was retired with “St. Elsewhere”.
Can someone answer the question I asked 2-3 pages ago?
What did Dave represent, why was he trying to get Hurley to do what he tried, and what was his purpose in the story? Any ideas?
Well, you asked for it.
Theory # 1, aka “The Face-Value Theory”: Dave is imaginary, constructed by Hurley’s subconscious as a manifestation of his guilt in having caused the deaths of two people. Hurley “punishes himself with food” according to his psychiatrist, and that’s why Dave is continually trying to get Hurley to eat - he’s part of Hurley’s self-punishment. When he shows up on the island, it’s because Hurley is once again trying to lose weight (i.e., he ditched his stash). When he tries to get Hurley to jump off the cliff, it’s just Hurley’s latent suicidal urge coming to the surface. When Dave jumps instead, that’s Hurley’s desire to live (and thus, to kill Dave). Although he almost jumps himself anyway, but I never claimed to be an expert here.
Theory #2, aka “The St. Elsewhere Theory”: Dave is the real person, and Hurley and all the Lostaways are characters in his dream. If this turns out to be the case, SOMEBODY is getting thrown out a window, and it ain’t gonna be Hurley.
Theory #3, aka “The Almost, But Not Quite, as Unsatisfying as the St. Elsewhere Theory Theory”: Libby is also imaginary; Hurley offs Dave because frankly, Libby is cuter and more fun to hang out with.
Theory #4, aka “The Mega-Conspiracy Theory”: Dave was real. Most or all of the staff at Santa Rosa either were, or were in cahoots with, The Others somehow. They faked the Polaroid showing Dave to be imaginary. Dave really did go to the island and really did interact with Hurley. He really did dive off the cliff (only to save himself with Super Sekrit Other Technology). Purpose for all this: unknown.
There you go. Take your pick. I’ll be here all week.
Any reason not to think that ‘Dave’ was just Hurley relapsing into the same psychosis that got him put in the institution in the first place?
Also, the island seems to ‘test’ people. Everyone’s weaknesses are attacked. Sayid is having to torture people and confront that part of his soul. Ana Lucia killed someone by accident again. Charlie winds up being around a plane full of heroin. Eko has to kill people. And Hurley winds up starving, but being put in charge of a cache of food. And now his evil made-up guy is back to taunt him. It all fits a pattern.
As for the lottery and the power of the numbers and all that, well, the writers have promised that there’s nothing ‘supernatural’ going on. I think we can take it as a given that it’s not all a dream. So what possible explanations are there? Plenty. Consider time travel. What could be done if one of the island’s secrets was time travel technology?
I think we also have to remember that when hollywood writers say there’s nothing’ supernatural’, that doesn’t necessarily mean this is all hard science. Hollywood writers aren’t typically known for their strong grasp of the hard sciences, so don’t be surprised if one of the ‘answers’ is some mumbo-jumbo about certain number sequences having some special cosmic significance because of some pseudo-science gobbledygook. If this were Star Trek, we might find out that the 8-15-16-23-42 combination is the natural result of the tachyon spin of neutrino particles when immersed in a quantum flux, and the island has magnified this flux and caused the numbers to alter the nature of reality, or some such nonsense.
I could see a wacky explanation like that coming along, but I can’t imagine that it was a dream, or that all the losties are brains in a vat, or anything like that.
Theory #1 makes sense. It seemed a little off to me at first thought because at some points Dave represented an urge for complacency - “there’s nothing wrong with you, don’t change” - and at other times a force for self destruction “jump off the cliff, stay puft”, and that seemed contradictory. I suppose, though, that if Hurley’s default state (fat, whatever) is painful for him, complacency and self destruction can overlap.
Yep. And if this was Star Trek, all they’d have to do is “reverse the polarity!”
Heh. Strangers was the first Koontz I read. About a quarter of the way into it, I had a guess about where the story was headed, but I thought, nah, that’s stupid, he’s setting us up to think that and will pull something else out. Halfway through, I was convinced of it, that we were being taken down a path that looked like it led to one answer but actually led to another. Three-quarters of the way through I was thinking, man, this guy is good, he’s totally leading us on with this dopey red herring, I bet he’s got something good up sleeve. Then he does his big reveal at the seven-eights mark, and it’s exactly the stupid idea I came up with and dismissed at the beginning.
I read two or three more Koontz books after that, because I couldn’t believe that wasn’t a fluky misfire by a hugely popular bestselling author.
But only two or three more.
So yeah, I know what you’re talking about. And if Lost turns into a Koontz story, I will be rather more than a little dismayed.
Or Theory #5: aka “The Before and After Theory”:
When Hurley is in the hospital, Dave is just an imaginary friend spawned from his psychological issues. But when Hurley gets to the island, whataver it is (the smoke monster morphing? dharmic holographic projection? locke’s island hallucinagenic plant? supernatural manifestation of the island? walt’s psychic projection? heat stroke and mango indigestion?) that made the other islanders see things too (the polar bears, the horse, jack’s dad, boone’s vision, wet walt) causes him to see Dave 2.0.
Good point, except I think the polar bears are real.
For what it’s worth, that’s what I had in mind. Combine that with Sam Stone’s comments about the island testing the stranded, and I think that’s the most likely theory. Certainly Dave was more overtly sinister this time around: V1.0 may have tried to get Hurley to eat, but V2.0 tried to make Hurley think nothing good could happen to him and that he must commit suicide for release.
IIRC, what TPTB have said is that everything that is happening on the island can be explained via science or pseudo-science. (Emphasis mine.) So telepathy, telekinesis, astral projection, healing crystals, spirit contacts or lost Atlantis are probably all fair game. Purgotory and elder gods seem to be right out.
Let me poke around and see if I can dig up the exact cite.
Damn – you’re on to something! See, all the lostaways need to do is to reverse the polarity by entering the numbers into the computer… backwards! And that will solve everything! 
See post #230.
Not to mention “Newhart”.
Yeah, but you didn’t specify how to reverse the polarity. 
In yet another “Was that (fill in the Other) in that episode?” question, the web is asking if fake Henry was in the flashback where Hurley first appeared in the mental ward.
For your consideration:
I see a resemblence, but I think it is different people.
With this and the Ethan look alike at Locke’s support group, I definitely think they are messing with us, even if they aren’t the same people.