Sorry to nitpick drastic_quench but you misspelled WAAAAAAALT.
That felt like an odd episode to me, I have to assume MVP’s direction was the reason. The whole thing struck a weird note with me, starting with Miles’ “Uhoh” at the beginning. My main complaint was when Jack & Hurley showed up at camp and they did the old “slow mo MOS with lilting music while everybody hugs cuz they are so happy to see each other” except none of these people were really friends. Was Miles REALLY that happy to see Jack? Was Ilyana moved when Hurley came in? Ben is great though and the ep had some interesting parallels. Definitely reminded me of a season 1 ep.
There was no part of the alt-timeline that made any sense at all.
That’s not how college recommendations work, or AP tests work, or admissions work, or scholarships work, or tuition/financial aid to top tier colleges work, and most especially, that’s not how blackmail works. Thematically it made sense in that Ben Linus didn’t choose power (even “power for the greater good” which is how he’d always justified it before) - but all of the details of the story were dumb.
As someone who deals with principals, AP tests, scholarships and college recommendations on a daily basis, that bugged the snot out of me as well. 15 minutes worth of research would have shown the writers that. It wouldn’t be that hard to shift things such that they could make the same points about Ben’s growth without ignoring academic reality completely.
According to IMDB, Tania Raymonde (Alex) turns 22 later this month. So I guess when we first saw her (season 2), she was 17, playing a 16-year old. Now she’s 21, playing an… 18-year-old? Senior in high school, given that she’s applying to college. She’s looking more mature now, but still… it’s not like the Porky’s kids or anything. 
Or it might be both. In the Jacob-touching-people flashbacks from last season’s finale, it looked to me like he touched them both, wishing them well at their wedding.
I also liked your Obi-Wan Kenobi comments (not sure you need to spoiler those – if anybody hasn’t seen 1977 Star Wars or know his role in the story, they are living in a bubble!).
I’m not yet convinced that the alternate timeline island-is-sunk is a direct cause/effect result of Jughead blowing up. Partly because of details like this. Roger and Ben’s discussion in this flash-sideways made it sound like they just decided to leave the island naturally, to not stay with Dharma. Their conversation certainly didn’t make it sound like Ben had been shot, then kidnapped, then Roger shot the person who did it in a gunfight, then somehow he found Ben and saved him from a blown-up-sinking island. Didn’t Roger say something like “how different would things have been if we had decided to stay?” He wouldn’t be thinking of his decision with regret if it was a “run for your life” type of decision (i.e. leaving the island).
So I think the alternate timeline version of things may not have been a direct split from the “Jughead detonation” point. Seems to me like that timeline contains some differences in earlier Dharma events, too. Like maybe our Losties (Jack, Sawyer, etc) never having been there…?
The “real” timeline that we’ve seen completely unravels once Oceanic 815 lands safely at LAX. Ben was shot by Sayid… So Ben never gets shot, never gets “healed” at the Temple, never turns into an “Other”, and leaves the Island with Pops at some point. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Island ends up underwater by 2004. (Dharma experiment gone wrong perhaps…?)
Yeah, it’s kind of silly, but Hollywood does this all the time. Scott Wolf in Party of Five was playing a 16 year old at age 26. Lea Thompson was 24 when she played a highschooler in Back to the Future.
I really liked the scene with Richard and Jack in the Black Rock and thought it was very revealing. Richard had lost his faith in Jacob when the latter died, but Jack, by betting on the fact that the dynamite wouldn’t explode, and being right, showed that Jacob’s plan is still in effect.
What did you think of the story that Dr Linus was telling about Napoleon’s exile on Elba? He said something about how Napoleon was still emperor, but because he was stuck on the island, he was effectively powerless. It seemed to be a fairly clear metaphor for Esau. So what would happen if Esau manages to get off-island? And what was Widmore planning to do in the submarine? The guy at the periscope asked him if they should still do whatever, given that there were people on the beach? Was their plan to shell the island?
Maybe I was a bit far into my bottle of wine last night when watching, but I thought the effects for the submarine scene were about on par with Gilligan’s Island.
it’s funny how something that’s not so blatantly fiction gets your goat. The part where a huge smoke monster kills people on a mysterious island doesn’t ring bells of realism, yet something like AP tests do. I say get over it and enjoy the fiction.
Which sounds good enough, but contradicts Dead Juliet’s message that “It worked” – “it” presumably being the plan to use the bomb to stop the plane crash. And haven’t the producers confirmed that it was the bomb that resulted in the Island being submerged? (Cite, anyone?)
Maybe, as a previous poster said, the bomb didn’t so much sink the Island as just “spring a leak” in it. If the Island flooded slowly over a period of weeks or months, instead of quickly and catastrophically, both the Dharma folks and the Others would have had plenty of time to leave. Of course, that would mean that “Dr. Linus” from last night’s episode was the same Ben who got shot by Sayid and Otherized. Which didn’t seem to be the case. Of course, Richard did say young Ben wouldn’t remember the whole getting-shot-by-an-Iraqi-and-magically-healed business. (How convenient.)
I’m starting to wonder if there is any way of looking at all this that even remotely makes sense.
Well, I’m glad I was right about Jacob being the bad guy. I think that’s been clear since this season started. BUT… I thought Widmore would turn out to be a red herring. His interest still confounds me a bit. Wouldn’t be surprised if Heloise is bunking on the sub too.
Once Richard, Jack and Hurley relay the story of Jacob to the rest on the beach and tell of the misunderstood Jacob, the war we keep hearing about will be between Flocke and Widmore???
My bet is that the characters will be “dumped” into the “alt” timeline after the climax on the island.
Maybe they’ll wake up after having this crazy dream about an island and a smoke monster, except that it really happened, but they don’t necessarily realize it.
I’m curious to know how this episode confirmed your belief that MiB is the good guy and Jacob is the bad guy, when several others in this thread stated that this same episode convinced them that this was not true.
Click the link in my post. (You may have to scroll to the near bottom.)
Basically, Richard, who knows Jacob the longest next to Flocke, calls it a “curse” when he touches you. He’s touched all the candidates, leaving lives in shambles, many dead and for what purpose? The Others are Jacob’s followers. Many died and Jacob let it happen.
The alt timeline is showing life as it happens-- so far. Jack is much happier, Ben is much happier, Sayid still the hero, with losses, but a real life. If they were never touched, they’d be better off.
From what Richard relayed to Jack about Jacob he will share on the beach with Sun, Miles, Lapidus, Ben and Illana. They won’t follow him anymore. With Widmore coming, I’m guessing the war will be between the Flockes and the Widmores.
Of course Flocke’s only method is a lot of lies…
Eh, at this point, I’m not SURE I’m right about Jacob, but I really can’t see why anyone would see “good” in him. Besides, white doesn’t always equal good.
One aside thought… (walks to side of room), with all the literary and mythological references throughout this series, The Wizard Of Oz shows up a lot. Perhaps Toto (Vincent) will pull the rope on the curtain? 
For me, it’s the uncanny valley of storytelling. Things that are completely out there (smoke monster, magic numbers, polar bears on tropical islands) are fine. Things that are almost but not quite like the real thing bother me.
An old adage of writing, you can add rules, but never change rules.
As good a place to ask as any, since I know at least some around here read producer interviews and the like…
Do the producers know that Kate is so despised? She’s a main character, she’s pretty, and all that. I think she’s a horrible, self-centered bitch.
But are we supposed to see that? I always thought she was supposed to be likable but failed miserably…
-Joe
But Locke doesn’t tempt Ben with power on the island, Smocke does.
In the first season Locke argued with Jack that he had to have faith that they were brought to the island for a purpose. We saw Jack reach the end of his personal crisis with his tantrum at the light house. He finally decided to have faith that there is a reason. It’s worth noting though that his big test of faith was also another suicide attempt.
If the alternate time line is the “future” and all the candidates are leading regular lives away from the island then who replaced Jacob?