OK, if NAF does have the role he claims, that would be huge for the town. But, I’ve gotta be a little paranoid here.
I’m vaguely remembering the Batman mafia game (it may be a different one) where I think Hal Briston had a PFK role that required him to match all players with their roles for his win condition. Frankly, this reeks of that type of play.
If his powers are what he says they are, it almost seems too one sided for the town.
Unless (like it was posited up thread) our poochy pal is less then 100% accurate. Which is a dangerous thing to have if the town as a whole believes him to be always right, all the time.
We really need a way to test this.
NAF, you got a read on Hawkeye, right? Did you get it before or after the end of day color ( I see your PM says dusk)? If you got it before the end of day color, then tomorrow, if a lynch becomes obvious, research the lynchee before they are lynched. Then, before story comes in with the color, post and let us know.
That would prove your powers, but not necessarily your allegiance.
Of course, if you get read after Storyteller posts the night color, it won’t do us much good.
Fascinating claim. I can kinda accept it actually. It does explain his questions(I mean really, psychological experiment? You didn’t really expect anyone to buy that crap did you?). For you then, I am town.
Ped, I know you’re a mason and all, but that doesn’t mean you should be sloppy in your reading.
He did say that his results come at Night. That fact means that claiming at Night makes some sense.
“There’s no way there’s 3 pro-town roleblockers! That just doesn’t make any sesne!”* Whoops. I’m not saying there ARE three cops, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility, especially if each has a different restriction on their investigations.
*In the Batman game, it turned out there were 3 town aligned role blockers. There was a lot of “That can’t be right!” thrown about when they all ended up claiming, but they were truthful.
Actually, more specifically, I claimed toNight intentionally.
Last point and then I have to do some housework. Don’t let me live till endgame. The whole plan more or less hinges on you allowing me to live long enough to make a few investigations and then killing me to confirm. I was thinking Day 5 or 6.
Also, I am sort of banking on us having another investigator and them using the pool of people who tell me that they are town to help narrow their investigation focus (in whatever direction they please, I am counting watchers/trackers as investigators. Use your judgment, but be sure you know that the information is useful.)
The masons don’t have to claim if they think it is a bad idea, and I would never ask you to out them Pede. But they should claim before another one of them gets killed. I am more concerned about the NK for masons than anything else.
Lastly, my numbers assume 5 scum players each of whom only gets 4/5 dead when we kill them. So take that into consideration. This makes it, in effect, a 6 person deadite group. I think that this is almost a certainty. Take that into consideration when you run your lynch or lose numbers. I am thinking I need to die around Day 6. If we have a vig they could NK me Night 6 and I get the extra investigation.
I still don’t get it. What would be the harm if he had waited? And yes, I guess there could be 3 pro-town investigators, but investigators are significantly more powerful than roleblockers!
This role is not as powerful as it seems. I only get answers to questions with absolute truth values. If I hadn’t gone around asking people if they were town I wouldn’t have gotten an investigation result for Day 1 or 2. Probably not until the next claim. I think my role was designed as a claim analyzer not a mason creator. I doubt anyone expected that I would just go around asking folks if they were town.
It’s a fairly weak cop role and I am HIGHLY suspicious of the people who are coming out and say that it is a huge gain for the town. That is scum thinking, because scum know they are fucked if I stay alive.
I disagree. Well, at least with your first sentence. Your second sentence contradicts the first. If you were a weak cop, why would scum be so screwed? Your role is significantly more powerful than any normal cop role. While detective usually have some limit such as only being able tell alignment or role name and are subject to false readings (godfathers and millers), you have no such limitations. You can test whatever you want (a player name, alignment, claimed power etc.) and achieve 100% accuracy. The hurdle that someone has to post it is quite minor. There is no pro-town reason to avoid giving you info to test, so scum will be forced to make testable claims.
There is a BIG difference between advocating for lynching NAF (which I have not done) and being skeptical about a claim that is no way confirmable without someone dying, while simultaneously asking for the Doctor’s protection and recommending that the Mason’s expose themselves. The icing on the cake is that he’s also trying to clear the person leading the charge against me and for whom I am leading a charge against.
I’m looking for a reason to give NAF the benefit of the doubt, and I do not yet see it. But that is not the same as gunning for him as scum.
It is entirely possible that NAF is a PFK who could be exploiting a town-on-town rumble between Hawkeyeop and I, but my paranoia has not dimmed from the possibility that NAF and Hawk both being scum either, especially since they’re both now coming after me.
I find it hard to believe that both of them are coming after me or reinforcing a previous case based on my reaction to NAF’s claim, when there is no compelling reason to have a reaction other than the reaction I’ve had.
I can’t speak for Naf’s reasons, but only my own. I would claim at Night with that role because the info is received at Night. I would be able to claim right after receiving my Nightly info, therefore not risking a NK before I was able to report my results.
And investigators, especially restricted ones, are not necessarily more powerful than roleblockers, especially in the end game. A pro-town roleblocker in the end game basically acts as a combination Doctor/Cop. If the roleblocker blocks someone, and there’s no kill, that person just stopped a kill(the doctor part), and can out a scum(the cop part). This is a massively powerful role.
Either way that player needs to guess right to have value, and can easily do more damage (blocks a town power role) than good. A detective can always get information, and a significant number of them make it nearly impossible for scum to false claim. I would consider more then 2 full detectives (and I consider Naf a full detective+) as unfair to scum.
Truth. Here’s why: scum hate lying. It’s the thing that trips them up. It’s what comes across as insincere. Scum play hunt the lurker, because they can do it truthfully.
NAF’s claimed role is a threat to them in a huge way. Yes, NAF got clever and asked for alignments directly, which is a brilliant move. Most people wouldn’t have gone that route. But the reason it sounds so scary to scum is that they start thinking of all the little lies they told, and how the mod might tell NAF “FALSE” on something. I think it’s more visceral than a normal cop investigation, since it hinges on a lie you made, not the role PM that you have no control over. There’s a certain “gotcha” quality to the role.
Short version: It’s as powerful as a cop, possibly more so. But in terms of fear, I think it will scare scum far, far more than a normal cop, and those are the reactions I want to look at more closely.
Well, see, there was this post, where somebody asked you a bunch of questions about your defense. Except it isn’t there. :smack:
Seriously - I saw your question yesterday afternoon, and immediately went running back to grab you post numbers and such… and couldn’t find it. I got to thinking about it on the drive home, and my recollection mutated to somebody else referencing such a post, as opposed to my own specific memory of it. So I jumped online when I got home… and couldn’t find it.
I just wrapped up another re-read, and I cannot find anywhere that you blew off questions regarding inconsistencies in your case. So, yes, total bullshit vote, and my apologies.
This is not to say that I’m not suspicious of you, on general principles. Your actions Tonight, particularly regarding NAFs claim, have been, well, “aggressively defensive” was the wording I used previously, I think. You’re pinging the crap out of me, I’ve just got nothing to hang my hat on at this time.
Nothing I could point to - I’ve not been paying attention like I should have. I’m working tomorrow, should be slow as hell, I hope to have the time to devote to a serious reread.
What the fuck?
Sigh…
Regarding Nightlynch - amrussell and Blam already said this, but some folks didn’t follow, I think. Since we have no control of who nightkills who, the only thing we can prove is that there is no nightlynch, which we will accomplish when the leading vote reciever at Dawn is not dead. If that person continues to show up dead, it could be a nightlynch, it could be a (compulsory?) Vig using second place as a safe target, it could be scum screwing with us… it could be a lot of things. Personally, I don’t think we have a nightlynch… Story posting the votecount before Dawn is consistent with votes carrying over through Night, and I don’t see the need to read anything more into that.
Regarding NAF - if he’s scum, he’s on a tightrope now. He can’t play this into endgame, he’d have to choose between outing his own team, being lynched for bussing town, or being lynched for not giving us scum results. If he’s town, he’s right… we give him a few more Nights, then we lynch him to lock down his results. Assuming he isn’t NK’d first. I will say, for gods sake, any other investigator types out there, keep your yaps shut!
Reread my last post Hawk. I don’t think most people would play this role the way I chose to, and I really don’t think story expected me to do this because of the high risk/reward ratio.
Again, with standard play this role is only useful in confirming role claims and then only one a Day. It’s slow and oftentimes useless. It was probably figured that I would manage to confirm one role claim before I was killed, I seriously doubt that I was pointed at full cop.
Story’s roles are fun like that. I got to do something unexpected in the Marvel game too.
Scum are screwed because I now have the ability to build a giant masonry if you let me.
Think of it this way, if I am either scum or PFK I need to die sometime before endgame. Give me until Night 6 and then off me. By then I will have confirmed enough people that if the masons are all still alive we should have won the game.
Hawk didn’t mention NAF or himself. We got 22 players now, three kills Day/Night is okay (scum no longer has their strongman either (double Night right?)). If the the second kill is from a non-compulsory vigilante, he can skip killing to delay LyLo.
So assuming three fully alive scum left, worst case it goes from Day Three 20/3.4, D4: 17/3.4, D5: 14/3.4, D6: 11/3.4, D8: 8/3.4, D9: 5/3.4 (LyLo)*.
So worst case Lynch or Lose is at Day Eight (even if there are four scum left) - is that how good our start was?
So if these numbers correct, if we want to do confirm lynch of NAF, Day six seems to be the safest Day (unless we get more/less Night Kills or kill scum).
*) If I continue with town lynching scum at LyLo (and only scum Night kill):
Day Nine: 4/2.6 (LyLo), D10: 3/1.8 (LyLo), D11: 2/5x0.2 town win?
Basically the one-fifth alive puts the minimum players at the last day at four instead of three, if there is no way to completely kill them off.
I did think your marvel role was overly powerful. More to the point you were in fact not town in that game. At any rate I’m okay with the plan to let you live for a while and gather information. I have a feeling that the scum won’t let you live too long anyway.
Yeah, maybe missed a word or two there :o. I don’t have the same powers as NAF.
Night Lynch probably doesn’t exist, but the the test will give more information:
No deaths - Good job doctor or role blocker
One death, not voted - no Night Lynch.
One death, voted - probably no Night Lynch (but if there is, scum wasted a kill)
Two deaths - probably a compulsory vigilante (maybe compelled to kill someone who has a vote).
Three or more deaths: Ai, we’re in trouble if it doesn’t include scums dying.
It’s more a compulsory vigilante check I guess. Anyway just vote like it is Day and the result shouldn’t be worse than at Day.
Sigh, complete bogus numbers, I count scum double :smack:.
So assuming three fully alive scum left and two Night kills:
Day Three 17/3.4, D4: 14/3.4, D5: 11/3.4, D6: 8/3.4, D7: 5/3.4 (LyLo)
So worst case Lynch or Lose is at Day Seven, so confirm lynch of NAF, Day five latest unless we get more/less Night Kills or kill scum.
the Scum will be picking off his masonry as we go along though, won’t they?
If NAF is being honest, each Night he confirms someone, all they have to do is kill that person. It’ll create a WiFoM for the Scum and any protectors we have, I suppose. I just see us finally lynching NAF that we have an effective masonry of 1 or 2, and hope that we have a protector still alive.
If NAF is lying, we eventually kill a Scum, while giving the Scum the opportunity to take some free shots at our protectors perhaps?
I’m just trying to evaluate this. I’m not ready to come down on one side or the other yet.
I got to do something unexpected in the Marvel game too.