Mafia Reunion - Day One

[Biotop]

@Johnny_Bravo

Agreed - it’s invasive, mildly creepy, and 100% ineffective in terms of being actual data.

I disagree. The information in the public profile is one way to learn something about a player. It’s not as if these three have any in-game posts to brood over. What say others?

[Normal_Phase]

@Biotop

I disagree. The information in the public profile is one way to learn something about a player. It’s not as if these three have any in-game posts to brood over. What say others?

Can’t unsee it, but don’t like it.

@Plumpudding: I’m very sorry to hear about your troubles and hope your improvement continues.

[Normal_Phase]

Much snippage

@septimus

I am presently suspicious of Lakai, Johnny Bravo, Colby11, and ToeJam. Later in the Day I will review the cases against whichever of those (or future suspects) is in Lynch contention and cast a final vote.

Nah. Please give your thoughts and reasoning on them now, not only if and when they ever come up for lynch.

I tried to explain this above. BTW, the tactic of removing my vote from the Lynch leader to get more information for Town is something I picked up from watching you play! (Though my understanding of the reasons for your voting patterns may very likely have been flawed.)

Believe me, I understand the idea of playing with vote totals this way as town, but this is not what you claimed to be doing. I’d have bought it more if you’d unvoted with no comment whatsoever.

[sachertorte]

@Johnny_Bravo

It may not be scum, but it’s anti-town. There zero good reason to divert attention away from this thread, and there are extremely good reasons to keep each thread entirely self contained.

What?! I mean. What!
My god.
How?
But…

@Johnny_Bravo

Just to be clear, you’re voting me because I answered the question you directed at me?

I do not understand Johnny Bravo at all. I don’t recall having difficulty with Johnny Bravo in the past, so I’m left very confused why he is behaving so irrationally. bufftabby’s vote, while I disagree with it, is perfectly clear and the reasons stated plainly.

@NAF1138

I again find myself regretting that we promised to answer all questions in Green.

Do you think I should see Rogue One on Martin Luther King Day?

@snfaulkner

Wishy-washy how? I’m not voting for Colby for just “The Slip” because by itself it means nothing. If he does something else to seem scummy, then “The Slip” might take on more meaning…

I stand by the term ‘wishy-washy.’ You may not like the word choice, but your explanation is the very definition of wishy-washy. You are willing to let other factors color your interpretation of the Colby slip. That’s wishy-washy (human, but wishy-washy). Scum like wishy-washy because it opens more options for voting and influencing the Lynch.

I’m super impatient this morning, it appears.

@DiggitCamara

So, as I read on, I see that a Colby bandwagon has formed. I am the first to admit that my eye is still on him/her, however this post is actually a better candidate for suspicion. I find that a defense of another player is usually given whenever the culprit actually has superior information about the other player. So, I will

unvote Colby

and

Vote snfaulkner

I missed this the first time through, but caught it again in snfaulker’s quote.
What’s going on here DiggitCamara? snfaulkner isn’t going to any great lengths to defend Colby, and others (including myself) have vocally called the Colby slip much to do about nothing. Why snfaulkner?

@Meeko

THIS or rather, I caught it, after the fact. That, and frankly, the discussion that my post in this context would have, is entirely and strictly Meta. I don’t really see any point in discussing it while a game is active, especially among the to be active participants.

Suffice to say, I don’t agree with Chronos and the notion that being confirmed town is next to useless. But again, this is a can of worms, and best left unopened during a game, if ever.

So yes, I saw it, but as it would only serve to fluff and hijack the thread further, I don’t see it as a priority to “return” to that topic (in any and every sense) presently.

I don’t love this. To my recollection, I don’t ever remember Meeko being concerned about hijacking a thread. Townie Meeko posts without any filter.

@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies

You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. If a bandwagon of votes has flimsy justifications, the people on it should consider switching. I don’t see that as ‘running away’ and if the justification was flimsy going in, why would it be expected to have more substance going out?

I think I’m going to have trouble holding players up to their old standards, rather than the newer reality of less time and less attention.
For septimus (it was septimus right?), the wording of his post makes it sound like he didn’t even know why he was voting for Colby in the first place. It’s very strange and not simply an acknowledgement that the case is weak.

@septimus

The reality is opposite. I honestly think that early bandwagons are anti-Town. If there were two Lynch candidates about whom I felt equally, I might vote the one with fewer votes just to maximize information eventually gained. I’ve done this before (and also attracted suspicion for this before).

Yay. Something I like!
I actually like the justification that slowing or stopping the early bandwagon is pro-Town. If I recall correctly, septimus was an early vote on Colby, so at the time septimus wouldn’t necessarily have known the bandwagony nature of the Colby situation. Though I should go back and verify what the situation was when septimus voted for Colby and whether or not his ‘bandwagons are bad’ defense makes sense. Put it on the to do list.

[Plumpudding]

@Biotop

I disagree. The information in the public profile is one way to learn something about a player. It’s not as if these three have any in-game posts to brood over. What say others?

I’m always logged in. I think many others are. I think whether people are logged in or not, with or without posting is irrelevant, and yeah, a bit creepy.

@Normal Phase: Thanks. I’m improving every week. Mafia has actually helped quite a lot!

[Johnny_Bravo]

@sachertorte

bufftabby’s vote, while I disagree with it, is perfectly clear and the reasons stated plainly.

The point I was making is that bufftabby confronted me about my FOS on Meeko (which is fine) and then, when I responded to his inquiries, voted me for making too big a deal.

It reminds me of how childhood arguments used to go with my mother when she got particularly angry.

Her: Why did you do it?
Me: I dunno.
Her: No, tell me why!
Me: Fine! Because blah blah blah.
Her: You always have a comeback! You always have an excuse!

And so on. I don’t mind being pressed for details on my motivations, but bufftabby pressed for details and then voted me for spending too much time on the topic.

I don’t understand your problem with the first thing you quoted from me.

[Biotop]

@Plumpudding

I’m always logged in. I think many others are. I think whether people are logged in or not, with or without posting is irrelevant, and yeah, a bit creepy.

@Normal Phase: Thanks. I’m improving every week. Mafia has actually helped quite a lot!

If that is the general consensus I will abide by it going forward. I still disagree…but will strive not to be creepy.:eek:

[wonky]

@Johnny_Bravo

The point I was making is that bufftabby confronted me about my FOS on Meeko (which is fine) and then, when I responded to his inquiries, voted me for making too big a deal.

This is how I read it:

bufftabby confronted you about your FOS and asked for reasoning. You responded with something that really didn’t make your FOS clearer or your reasoning more believable. Then bufftabby voted for you because your whole case was goofy based on your own explanation.

So the vote was not because you took the time to explain it but because your explanation wasn’t convincing.

[AngeloftheNorth]

@Hoopy_Frood

It seems overly opportunistic to me. I read ToeJam’s post as simple confusion. Then agian, Klutz is sticking his neck out by voting for ToeJam for a reason that seems unique compared to the other people voting for him, so I give some credit to Klutz for that.

It’s cheap vote in response to a cheap vote. That’s pretty much it.

(On a side note, now that I think about it I believe Klutz was the first person I ever voted for in my mafia career, so it seems kind of an odd coincidence that I ended up voting him first in this game.)

In this game, the Masons can’t communicate privately either, according to the rules.

What no claim yet?

But you don’t say anything about how you feel about sheep. I mean, we all know how Hal feels about them.

Using the word team isn’t. But going all “I’m not scum and I hope you’re not scum,” especially in Day 1 seems like a perfect case of the “look how townie” I am gambit. (Contrast to the Klutz calling out Roosh/ToeJam thing–which I’m currently voting him for–where Roosh’s response was directly referencing someone else’s statement and I didn’t get any of the “look at me, I’m townie” vibe from it.)

Then again, I didn’t see that you posted at all Night 0, so this seems mitigated by that fact. And based on your later posts you hadn’t even read the rules yet since you bring things up that are spelled out in them. (E.g. the two scum team thing.)

On the third hand, though, maybe it’s all just part of a feigning ignorance gambit.

I didn’t post Night 0, I didn’t read Night 0, I haven’t read the rules, and I have never actually seen scum use the “I’M SO DAMN TOWN” gambit. Make of that what you will.

I can see why if you don’t know me, it might look like scum cuddling, though. It’s just that it would be very clumsy scum cuddling if it were, and I’m not clumsy as scum.

[AngeloftheNorth]

@septimus

I ask others: How many hours per day do/will you spend on this Game? For me, I may spend an average 2+ hours per calendar day and it isn’t nearly enough! (Part of my problem may be slow thinking, poor note-taking and work habits). I can afford the time because I’m retired, but many of you have jobs — How can you keep up?

I’m accused of inconsistency about Colby, so let me ask: What is my Scum motive? Do those voting me think Colby is my scum teammate? Or am I Scum seeking Town cred by jumping off the misLynch of a Townie? I don’t think either explanation makes sense. If Colby were NOT my Scum teammate, I’d be happy to let him fry: for one thing he might be on the other Scum team!

The reality is opposite. I honestly think that early bandwagons are anti-Town. If there were two Lynch candidates about whom I felt equally, I might vote the one with fewer votes just to maximize information eventually gained. I’ve done this before (and also attracted suspicion for this before).

I am presently suspicious of Lakai, Johnny Bravo, Colby11, and ToeJam. Later in the Day I will review the cases against whichever of those (or future suspects) is in Lynch contention and cast a final vote.

Yes, I am suspicious of Colby11 because of his weird phrasing. I equivocate because I don’t have a good model of why Scum used that phrasing. (If I did, I’d be leading the charge against Colby11 instead of making a weak vote and weak unvote.)

I think Miss Angel is alluding to the fact that my style often attracts votes when I’m Town. This does have the advantage that I don’t have to worry about being NightKilled (except by Town Vig ) — I’m much too easily misLynched for Scum to waste a Kill on me.

The threads of this many-player Game are going to be so huge that I wanted to minimize my postings so I don’t contribute to the hugeness, but I do answer questions, or self-defend when voted.

A year and a half ago (That long? :eek: Has time sped up dramatically? Is this an effect of the Dark-Energy Era??? :smack: ) I played in a Mafia Game here at SDMB. I was fairly active Day 1 and ended up Lynched. Johnny Bravo started the wagon against me in that game, first with a FOS, later with a vote. He turned out to be Scum: That’s why I’m keeping a suspicious eye on his FOS’ing in this game. In the Game where I was misLynched Day 1, I was the Town Doctor. The votes against me came during the final minutes (there was a 6-6 tie at 11:57); I claimed Doctor with about 2 minutes to spare, but wasn’t rescued. (Town did end up winning the game; I don’t know if the misLynch record against me helped.)

In Mafia Reunion, End-of-Day comes at 3 AM my time, and I will not be on-line to claim and avoid misLynch. If you guys do decide to misLynch me please get your votes down early enough for me to respond.

I tried to explain this above. BTW, the tactic of removing my vote from the Lynch leader to get more information for Town is something I picked up from watching you play! (Though my understanding of the reasons for your voting patterns may very likely have been flawed.)

You surmised correctly.

[AngeloftheNorth]

@Captain_Klutz

Multiple scum teams makes no difference. Even with one scum team, scum will happily vote for an apparent slip. They will also vote for a genuine slip (yes, if they see a teammate slip they will vote for them. I am speaking from experience).

In this case I think it is likely that scum from both teams is on this wagon, regardless of Colby’s alignment.

I agree with this. If Colby flips (some kind of) scum his teammates would definitely be on the bandwagon.

[Plumpudding]

A question: If I have a post on a page, but continue reading, when I refresh, I always get bumped up to my last post on the page. Is there any way to adjust the settings so this doesn’t happen? I’d like to stay where I am on the page when I refresh.

[wonky]

@AngeloftheNorth

I didn’t post Night 0, I didn’t read Night 0, I haven’t read the rules, and I have never actually seen scum use the “I’M SO DAMN TOWN” gambit. Make of that what you will.

I get not memorizing the rules and roles, but not reading them? I can’t view that as pro-Town behavior. The only thing we have is the information in the threads and in the rules and roles.

[NAF1138]

@sachertorte

Do you think I should see Rogue One on Martin Luther King Day?

:dubious:

Probably. I haven’t seen it yet myself, and I have heard mixed things, but MLK day is probably a good day to see it if you are planning too.

Now, please, stop encouraging bad behavior.

[Hockey_Monkey]

@Plumpudding

I’m always logged in. I think many others are. I think whether people are logged in or not, with or without posting is irrelevant, and yeah, a bit creepy.

This. I am always logged in. I keep tabs of my frequently visited sites up all the time so I can pop back and forth while I work. I’m probably not sitting at my computer at 4am.

[septimus]

@septimus

I ask others: How many hours per day do/will you spend on this Game? For me, I may spend an average 2+ hours per calendar day and it isn’t nearly enough!

I didn’t get any answers to this question. I hope I can play effectively in this big a game, but it will be hard. Especially if duty calls me to spend much of the 2 hours defending my Townie self from a Lynch!

@Normal_Phase

Nah. Please give your thoughts and reasoning on them now, not only if and when they ever come up for lynch.

My plan is to focus on the 2 Lynch leaders much later in the Day and try to make an informed choice then. I did indicate where my current suspicions lie.

Let me counter with a question for Normal Phase and others. Who do you suspect to be Town? I almost never get a good Scum lead Day 1, but often have decided on a very likely Townie or two. This Game? I got nuttin’. All y’all seem Scummy to me!

@Normal_Phase

Believe me, I understand the idea of playing with vote totals this way as town, but this is not what you claimed to be doing. I’d have bought it more if you’d unvoted with no comment whatsoever.

Believe me, if I’d unvoted with no comment whatsoever there would even more interest in misLynching me.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Normal_Phase

@ Meeko –

From another site, a completed game where I was town.

Here is me using the term wolf: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/5736-Very-Scary-New-Year-s-Party?p=829560#post829560

And here is my very next post, using the term scum: http://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/5736-Very-Scary-New-Year-s-Party?p=829571&viewfull=1#post829571

Of note is that this was a three faction game, with wolves, vampries and townies. I was using both wolf and scum to describe any anti-town player, just like I am now. Can we drop this now? It’s ludicrous.

I don’t think your use of the word ‘wolf’ to describe any non-Town player is necessarily a Scum-tell, but in a game where it is known that there is a “Wolf” faction and a “Mafia” faction which together make up “Scum”, it seems to me that it would be a good idea to use the proper term to refer to the group you’re talking about.

From this point on, if I see you use the term “Wolf”, I’m going to assume you mean the Werewolves specifically, not the Mafia, nor any 3rd Parties, nor the Scum factions as a whole. If you want to use terms which are not properly descriptive I can’t stop you, but any confusion, and the resulting votes/actions, are on you.

[septimus]

@Normal_Phase

Believe me, I understand the idea of playing with vote totals this way as town, but this is not what you claimed to be doing.

And this confuses me. The comment I made when I Unvoted reflects exactly this strategy. I said that runaway bandwagons may reduce the information available to Town.

(Is my early vote on Colby a contradiction? No. (1) It was NOT yet a runaway bandwagon then; (2) My vote on Pleonast was a very weak early temporizing vote; (3) It was my duty to show my suspicion.)

[Hockey_Monkey]

@AngeloftheNorth

I didn’t post Night 0, I didn’t read Night 0, I haven’t read the rules, and I have never actually seen scum use the “I’M SO DAMN TOWN” gambit. Make of that what you will.

I can see why if you don’t know me, it might look like scum cuddling, though. It’s just that it would be very clumsy scum cuddling if it were, and I’m not clumsy as scum.

Really? You haven’t even read the rules? I don’t know if it’s a scum gambit to declare that (I’m so vanilla town I don’t even have to read the rules, 'cause all I have to do is remember to vote), or if it’s just town laziness. It does feel kinda disrespectful to the mods who worked hard to set this huge intricate game up and to the other players who are putting in the effort to play.

[Crys75]

@HookerChemical

I take a couple days away as the N0 comes to a close, and I find 4 or 5 pages worth of new material. I love/hate you all. I’m going to limit myself to a few posts per day so there won’t be fluff. I will put proportionately more meat on them.

Good summary of N0, and I’ll chime in on the major issues where I have thoughts. I lean towards the Patsy claiming. If it’s countered, we have an additional prime target and if it’s a mislynch, we get a bonus kill. One wrinkle is that (unless I’ve missed the rule) it is possible to have duplicates of any of the roles, including Patsy. We know that one Patsy exists, but we don’t know that two don’t. In the unlikely even that there are two Patsies, the counterclaim would be legit.

I don’t see much (any) benefit to scum to fake the claim, so the potential for a misfire is mitigated, but it’s a wrinkle to consider. I still come down in favor of the claim.

I think editing is bad, but not much of a tell. Scum have their boards. I doubt there’s anything to be gained from cross faction communication via edited posts. Given that it would require that both be online and reading at the same time (which cannot be coordinated), it’s difficult. Benefit is low. Risk of being seen by any of the numerous townies (or an unintended scum party) is astronomical. It won’t happen.

I’ll add this to Biotop’s list of N0 topics: scum tells. I don’t think there are universal scum tells (short of literally saying you’re scum), but individual players may have them. I’ve seen some players peg regulars as scum for these tells, and I have a couple in my back pocket that I think are valid. I’ve been wrong about them as well.

(vote tags broken)
I agree with septimus’s comments on Pleonast’s ideas, but not the vote. Bad ideas come from townies all the time.

(vote tags broken again- nested quote can be found at the linked post)
As far as slips go, this is one of the most suggestive I’ve seen, but I can’t bring myself to vote for it. Bad phrasing is pretty par for the course. Colby’s slip could easily be unintentional bad phrasing. (Please see SNFaulkner for numerous examples of intentional bad phrasing.)

This feels way too snugly and inoffensive. I think I’m a non-combative player, but this is too kiddy-gloved for even me. It feels too universally snuggly and eager to be free of issues/baggage/scrutiny. “I’ve answered your questions. Please look elsewhere.” (Sunny Daze seems to be getting a similar vibe as well in Post 113 toDay.)
vote ToeJam

I get the vibe you are getting, however, I myself feel that way too. I will admit I feel a bit intimidated by such a large player pool. I’m not sure that I would consider this vote worthy atm, only because I “get” why someone would feel this way.

I am however starting to look a little harder at colby now only because so far I haven’t seen him return and post anything else. We have plenty of time, but I’m starting to pay attention. Currently I’m only on page 4 though for my read through atm. It is possible i will find more posts as I try to close in on the end of the thread.