Care to elaborate? Johnny Bravo specious suspicions are, to me, a classic scum tactic. I mean really, for posting in Night Zero instead of Day One?!
It is not intended as a qualifier-
and no If ANY player says " role X should do Y on Day#" ( holding that opinion throughout Day#)and later claims to be role X who did not do Y on Day #" They should be lynched
Not saying anything either way is fine BUT holding an absolute and then contradicting it is lynchable.
- and before you re ask- If on Day# role X posts at some point- " it is possible that role X should not do Y on Day# now that I re think it" or some such- then they have removed the absolute and should be considered case by case. *
I tried to use [vote] tags- they didn’t work and I lost the word vote in the edit
****unvote all
Vote Lakai
Trying to catch up. I see we have traveled a bit of a road wrt Septimus and prompted a claim. I am inclined to give that claim the benefit of the doubt and plan on settling a vote on one of the folx who were floating some dubious votes his way earlier in the Day that I remarked about at the time accusing him of running away from a flimsy bandwagon.
I have tied some yarn to my belt loop before I go crawling back into this mess to solidify my vote. Please pull me out if you don’t hear from me by Dusk.
As we enter the home stretch of D1, I’m still comfortable with my vote on ToeJam. TJ has not posted since my earlier case (D1.568), and I think the case warrants a D1 vote. Captain Klutz mentions Captain’s earlier vote on TJ for derpclear, which I haven’t factored into my evaluation and I think I will continue to leave it out. It’s D1, and one of my typical discussion topics is the number of scum, which could easily be construed as derpclear. (That’s not a topic this game since we know the numbers, obviously.)
Regarding the vote leaders:
Colby: I have a history of mislynching Colby. I get the case on him for the slip, but it’s an easy case to hide behind. I don’t think his flip will tell us much about his teammates. (I’m not sure how informative any early flip will be given that scum has the opportunity to scum hunt the opposing scum team.) (Also, to those that watched scum Hooker say similar things about scum Colby in the recent Thing game, we didn’t know we were scum until N1 that game.)
ToeJam: As stated, I think this is the strongest scum candidate toDay. I’m voting both my strongest lean and a viable candidate and I think a switch from that candidate is unlikely. I’ve self-evaluated for tunnel vision and found myself more convinced that there’s a scummy smell around ToeJam.
Septimus: In the absence of a counterclaim, I will not vote for septimus. With a counterclaim, I would likely vote for one of the two claimants.
Angel: I don’t find the case against her convincing. Which is good for her, because her defense of “I wouldn’t do that as scum” isn’t convincing either. (Angel, you’re canny enough to do something too scummy to be scummy then hide behind it. I’m not saying you did, but you would.) Her clearing of septimus and his subsequent claim is consistent with some of her previous town play, and his subsequent claim makes me lean town on her, if not strongly. I agree that her late reading of the rules was anti-town, but anti-town is not always scum. Sometimes it’s lack of bandwidth (to use Pleonast’s word, because it’s good).
Lakai: I’m getting a ping here, but it’s weak. This is probably where I’d end up if there were a reason to unvote ToeJam, though I’d reevaluate Colby as well.
I want to snuggle Thing Fish and Chronos here a little. I find the two of you posting a lot of the strategy I might otherwise post. I agree with a lot of their points and am reminded that Thing Fish is responsible for the Anatomy of a Clusterfuck post (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18558712&highlight=clusterfuck#post18558712). They’re highest on my “most likely to be town” list, but it’s way too early to put anybody higher than about a 2 out of 10.
And a FOS to Squid and Johnny. I find your cases (against Angel and Meeko) to be molehill mountaineering. These cases have taken up a lot of bandwidth based on very thin evidence. Rereading their posts doesn’t change the opinion that both are making federal cases out of what should be a minor infraction. I don’t think either is viable at this point and I won’t be moving my vote there toDay barring incredible events because they don’t seem viable toDay. Even then, it wouldn’t be without the kind of reread I have ToeJam.
Below is the first vote on septimus, from Enderw24. Just in case the nested quote doesn’t come up, he’s replying to Post 85.
septimus was responding to a Pleonast post about editing, wherein Pleo said “And speaking of coordination, I’ll consider post editing extremely suspicious. Mafia, Wolves, and Third Parties have no easy means to coordinate. Putting a message in a post when another player is known to be online and then editing it before anyone else is likely to see it is a possible gambit.” I think it’s pretty clear here that in post 85, septimus was asking a question to make sure he understood Pleonast’s point. What it seemed he was getting at was that while each individual Scum team can communicate amongst themselves, they can’t communicate with one another, so an edited post could be an attempt to do so. And it was clear from septimus’ question to Pleo that he got it. As such, Enderw24 has a strange vote here. He seems to not be understanding the point of that line of questioning at all.
As an aside, Enderw24 has not yet unvoted, but it appears he hasn’t been online to see the claim yet.
The next vote on septimus was from Normal Phase, in 322. The “Agreed” portion was to the portion of the sachertorte post quoted directly below NP here.
So septimus unvotes Colby11 in post 231. In that unvote post, he says “Although Colby’s possible slip is the biggest ping I’ve got right now, it’s very weak. Is the theory that he prepared a message on a scum board and copied it here without reviewing it? Unlikely. I’ve seen a few scum slips like this, but IIRC never from Colby.” This is probably a misstatement of the theory, because I think the theory was more along the lines of he DIDN’T prepare a message ahead of time, and just slipped up with his wording in a post. I can understand the reasoning behind the sachertorte post (and NP vote) a little better than I can the Ender vote, as the latter came before the scummy-looking unvote of Colby I don’t have a problem with Normal’s vote here. But when this bandwagon comes up again (and it will), remember that despite decent reasoning, sachertorte put the bus in gear but wasn’t the one who started driving it.
Incidentally, it appears that Normal Phase decided to unvote septimus in 714 without having read the hard claim, because she cited post 345 as her reasoning. Post 345 is the post in which septimus made the soft claim. What’s unclear (I’ll have to go look at the timeline to make sure) is whether NP was around and posting during the “was it or wasn’t it a soft claim?” debacle with Total Lost.
Moving on, the next vote for septimus was two posts after his “soft claim,” in 347.
Speaking of weak vote, this one’s pretty weak to me. First off, reasonable minds may disagree on just how weak the vote for Colby is. He’s been the consistent lynch leader all Day for a potential slip, which is probably more than most early Day One votes have to go on (I’m already on record as disagreeing about the nature of most of these types of “slips”, but I can see the other side of that argument and don’t have a problem with it). The unvote was for weaker reasons than the vote, for sure, but I don’t necessarily think that the vote itself was weak. What’s interesting here is that it was the first vote for septimus after the soft claim, and it was a really fast vote, but in terms of time, it took a while. septimus made the post with the soft claim at 5:29 AM, board time. The Captain Klutz vote was at 7:08 AM. Now, I’m not sure what time zone everyone is in, but I’m sure that if someone on a Scum team woke up and saw that septimus post, and noticed the same thing that Total Lost did, they’d have posted it on their Scum boards. And it’s possible that in that intervening hour and a half, one of the Scum who noticed decided to make a quick run at getting a bandwagon started. A deeper view into Captain Klutz may be in order here.
The next vote is from Hoopy Frood, in 480.
This, to me, reads as a good Townie post. In-depth, well-reasoned, supported by links, and pressing the person he’s voting for with more questions, to try to see if the answers deepen the case or not. I’m okay with this one for now. Hoopy, incidentally, was the second person to unvote septimus (see post 736) and the first to mention his hard claim in doing so.
Incidentally, the Total Lost question about the soft claim comes 10 posts after the Hoopy Frood vote, in 490. I mentioned earlier a question about Normal Phase and whether she was around for the soft-claim stuff. She posts in 512, but it’s only a short post asking Pleonast to answer a question she’d previously posed. She then follows up on his answer, in 562. She posts an apology for being tied up with another game in 632. In 681, she asks Hockey Monkey if she’d seen the other votes for Colby at the time she made her vote. In 682, she mentions septimus and says “I’ve seen some comments about Septimus here and there and his maybe playing like this as town. My own memory/experience has him playing in one game with me where he was likewise crazy scummy from day one; when we lynched him on day 2 or 3 guess what, he was scum. So there’s that.” No mention of the soft claim issue. In 689 she responds to an unrelated Boozahol post, and 690 is the septimus hard claim.
Normal Phase, had you noticed any of the discussion about septimus potentially soft-claiming in post 345, before you used it as the reasoning for your unvote of him in 714? And just as importantly, had you seen the hard claim when you unvoted?
Backtracking a bit while moving on, I’m headed to discussing the Pleonast vote for septimus in post 511. He cites post 488, so I threw it in there, too.
Yeah, post 488 is a weak vote, but from someone who is now a claimed town power role, and who made what we now know was a soft claim in 345. I don’t view this one with quite as much side-eye as I do Captain Klutz, but it’s probably 1B to CK’s 1A, in that it seems to be a drive-by smearing of a lot of folks, but the ultimate vote went for septimus, and is the only vote for septimus made AFTER Total Lost specifically asked whether or not he was soft-claiming in 490. I’d like to think that a Town Pleonast would have known better than to vote for someone whose soft claim was already pointed out, knowing that it gets that person one vote closer to feeling as if they have to claim. Pleonast, had you seen Total Lost’s post in 490 before you made this vote? If so, why did you still make the vote for him and not one of your other front-runners? If not, why did you not consider unvoting him and voting for one of your other suspects after you saw it?
Pleonast unvoted in post 841. In that, he said that septimus’ full claim was pro-Town, and that there should always be doubt over a soft claim (so I suppose that sort of answers my above questions, although I would like him to go a bit more in-depth on it). I’d like to hear what he has to say about that before I decide what to do.
So from all this, I think we should give a harder look at Captain Klutz and sachertorte. I’d like Pleonast and Normal Phase to comment a bit more about the soft-claim situation, and what you knew and didn’t know about it when you made your votes and unvotes. Hoopy Frood looks very Town here.
Okay, that was over an hour of work, and all I did was just make more work for myself :smack:. What do you all think?
What happened to ToeJam? Silence?
Is Lakai a noob or not? Yes, it makes a difference
Sunny Daze; is this really your first game?
Before I go in-depth again (not sure when I’ll get the time, but right now my meeting is running late, so there’s that), I figured I’d go ahead and get a vote on the table that I reserve the right to change after I actually go look at his posts.
unvote Meeko
vote Captain Klutz
NETA: This is why I hand-format.
vote Captain Klutz
I feel like you’re arguing against something I didn’t say. My point - which perhaps I didn’t do a good job of explaining - was that you should vote for who you think is Scum…and that you shouldn’t avoid voting for someone for the sole reason that “everybody else is voting for them”.
There can be many other reasons for not voting for someone who you suspect. Indeed, I changed my vote off of **Colby **earlier even though I am pretty certain he’s our best lynch Today, to make a point of calling out **Plumpudding **for what I saw as anti-Town behavior. I probably wouldn’t have changed my vote if Colby hadn’t been the runaway leader at the time…but under the circumstances I felt it was ‘safe’ to turn my gaze elsewhere.
All switches are “on” at the moment. Per the rule correction in Post 664, switches may be flipped at Night only, so all Day Powers for **Today **are active, and can’t be switched off.
I think.
**septimus **mad a statement which was (intentionally or not) ambiguous.
Total Lost wanted to know if the statement was intended to be ambiguous or not.
All septimus needed to do was respond to the inquiry, either to give a clarification, or to say that he had no further clarification he wished to give at the time.
I personally didn’t have a problem with septimus’ original statement as it was written. I also didn’t have a problem with Total’s question. This is a game of incomplete information; there are times when it is appropriate to give it, and times when it is appropriate to question it.
As for the eventual hard claim - nobody and nothing ‘forced’ it. The state of the game was such that there was no necessity for a claim at that point. It served no useful purpose.
That’s going to cause a little confusion.
Mind if we call them ‘Bruce’ to keep it clear?
Call me anything but late to dinner.
I’ve grabbed every CK post in the thread, I think. If I missed one here or there, I apologize. My meeting is about to start, so I will have to analyze them later.
Folks, we’re doing our best. It really is quite a large game. Bear with us as we make our mistakes.
Do remember to go back and fetch Becky Thatcher, Tom!
Obviously. But which one?
I think you’re very Townie, very smart, and hard-working.
Why should anyone post anything, when we can simply vote? Because this is a game based on interacting with posts.
I think it’s unreasonable to find Scum motivation in complaints about mis-posts. To use your own words, the votes on Johnny Bravo feel specious to me.
I value soft claims about as much as the photons they’re printed on. I saw the soft claim and immediately filtered it into the “irrelevant” bin. The only claims that I consider to be useful are 1) counter-claimable, or 2) verifiable, or 3) unintentional. septimus’ claim is certainly not counter-claimable nor verifiable. It felt very intentional to me, but that was apparently inobvious to at least one player.
I’m almost certain I played with Lakai back when the werewolf games started in like '07. I don’t know if he’s been active or has recent experience - but I’m pretty sure he’s not a newb.
wait what? Scum would not jump on a mis-post you say? umm really?
underlined part me- How is any claim " not counter-claimable"?
It really would be convenient to have a voting record, e.g. as printed by Giraffe’s robot.
I have no objection to Mods answering the quoted question.
Until we have that counterclaimant, I can’t possibly determine which is more likely. There are about 50 people who could counter and I haven’t ranked them all.
Probable suspects, on day 1? More like mild suspicions, really, but here. Let me pretty up the notes, for now.
Day 1
Septimus – voting fast on Pleo
TExCat, post 91 – Agree with assessment for now.
Septimus – 106 – quick switch to colby11 (even though I agree with the logic)
Captain Klutz – post 203 – Err, defending Colby?
Post 257 – look at Lakai’s vote. Lynching mob? WTF?
Post 311 – Bad lakai excuse?
I stopped taking notes after that, and just had to keep up with the readings.
I wasn’t liking septimus’s posts at the start - he was agressive to start, he switched his vote rapidly, at first. Nothing he said after that removed suspicion, until his claim. At this point, without a counter claim, I have to trust he is the EMT.
Right now, I’m pointing a finger at lakai. Post 257 quoted lakai as wanting to jump on a lynching mob, against Colby11. Colby’s post does read as off, but for me personally, that’s not enough for a day 1 vote. But someone happily jumping on a bandwagon?
I’ll not be able to post most of this weekend, as life is too damn busy, so I need to at least vote today.
With a lack of better evidence until I re-read (or something changes in the next two days)
vote Lakai