Mafia Reunion - Day Three

[Prof.Pepperwinkle]

@Plumpudding

Feelings? Okay, I know you play like this. Not much I can do with just a feeling though, since I’m not sure I share it.

Btw: I don’t think it is sincere, at least not all of it. I’d like Prof. to comment on this too. I remember when you (Prof.) posted the result of your LtL research, and per my memory, you basically said LtL as a strategy was about as effective as guessing at random and that you were dropping it as a strategy. So why bring it up again? It makes no sense that LtL is more effective here than on Giraffe, why would a different board make it more viable? And why would you believe bringing it up here along with absolutely nothing else wouldn’t net you votes? I know you’re fond of it, it’s your pet-theory, your meta blabla, but come on, I’m sure you can see how it’s not particularly satisfying, especially as a main course with no sauce, sides or garnish.

I enjoy LtL. It’s my “meta blabla”. I find it satisfying. Apparently I’m alone. I thought it might be more effective here, because I didn’t expect mentioning it to instantly garner me the votes it does over on Giraffe. And it didn’t, my talking about it and then switching over and voting on sachertorte did. Which, I now see, does look scummy.

[Pleonast]

@LightFoot

1. is pretty straight forward. I am guessing you understand that part
2. If D1 posts could solve the game we wouldn’t have many Days in the game

Now it is Day 3 and you are still hanging on to Day one speculations -in some cases without (it appears) taking into account later posts.

• I am referring to your additional list not the current counted vote *

(Thanks for the better wording.)

Why do you say I’m not taking into account later posts? My vote list has been changing. Compare my first votes list:

@Pleonast

vote Normal Phase for daring us to vote for them in D1.27.
vote Chronos for snuggling up to Meeko in D0.442.
vote Scathach for scolding a player for being a “helpful townie” in D1.35.

To my latest:

@Pleonast

vote Prof. Pepperwinkle for explicitly advocating a pro-Scum tactic in D3.339.
vote Thing Fish for revealing that Scum do not learn the identity of everyone on their team on their secret board in D1.253.
vote Idle Thoughts for the meta-reason of typically lurking when scum.
vote Scathach for scolding a player for being too helpful to Town in D1.35.
vote Johnny Bravo for being too defensive and misrepresenting another’s case in D1.265.
vote Plumpudding for refusing to vote when called on it in D1.401.

That’s an overlap of one vote. Despite the references to D1 posts, some of those votes were first made after Day One.

@paulwhoisaghost

Because town is more than happy to let them be offed and no one is gonna protect an outed cultist. Because scum benefit from their death just as much as a townie death so claiming makes them an easy target. Because it serves no purpose to further their wincon, they are better off playing the game as though they are VT and trying to make it to end game, which is good for town.

I see plenty of reasons for them to want to stay hidden. There is no chance that they will achieve their claimed wincon if they all claim. Especially not with procultist lynch players around.

I think you accurately describe their fears, but it’s only going to get worse for them if they don’t all claim. Until they get to the point where their claim of exactly 5 members has been verified and they explain their investigative-chain-of-trust that eliminates the possibility of a Scum insertion, their lynch threat is going to increase.

Assuming they’re telling the truth: if they’re too cautious, they’re going to end up with three or four dead (from Scum or other kills) and one or two survivors who’ve wasted their investigations on dead cultists. And so they won’t even be able to confirm each other, let alone convince us there’s not a Scum pretending to be a Cultist. And so we’ll have to lynch the rest of them. They lose, because they refused the chance to confirm themselves while they were all still alive. And they’re likely to take us down with them if we don’t have the mislynches to spare.

@sinjin

And why didn’t ToeJam claim then, when he was in serious danger of being lynched? Why did it take a week for him to come up with his role claim. I think his role claim and his silly VT targeting himself is all blather. He supposedly faked being a detective so scum wouldn’t target him? What is more dangerous to scum a doc or a detective? IMHO a dick is more a danger to scum in early days than a doc.

If you are the doc, a really important role for town, why would you fake being another power role to draw attention away from you docness? That makes no sense at all. All it does is draw attention to yourself and target yourself for a kill.

This looks to me like a last ditch, get more info from town before I die gambit, hoping that the real doc claims so scum get a one for one.

This post pings me every which way wrong. Are you so incredulous that someone might play the game differently than you? I don’t think so. I think you’re simply trying to smudge a Town power role.

And ToeJam, quit filling the thread with long posts defending your actions. Either you’re what you claim which is enough to justify yourself, or you’re lying Scum jamming the signal. Spend your limited game time on something helpful.

@LightFoot

chasing rabbit butts I got it

Hugh, is that you?

@Boozahol_Squid_P.I

vote: Crys75

I’ve drank hospital coffee stronger than the cases currently being leveled against **Idle **and Prof. Pumpernickel. I’ve never voted for a non-counterclaimed doctors, and I’m unlikely to break that streak for Toejam. The best that I can see right now is to lynch one of the third party contenders, and if we’re going to have only one of the two around in the endgame, hopefully helping Town, I know sache is a very strong/dangerous player. That leaves Crys75, I’m afraid.

Lynching third party is simply handing a free mislynch to Scum. You need to make a case why Crys is Scum.

@Hockey_Monkey

Who else thinks **Idle **just swooped in to save one of his scum buddies from getting lynched? That’s really the only reason I can think of for him to do this, as just not posting would have gotten him the result he wanted, but lost 2 for his team. Now we have to waste a lynch on him.

I think this is exactly why Idle popped up. I’m all for their lynch, but I’m going to keep my vote where it’s currently at.

@Idle_Thoughts

Since many people have voted for me for “meta reasons” as they claim, here’s some meta-ing of my own:

Raise your hand if you’ve ever been in a game where people vote for Idle Thoughts just because they get angry/annoyed/irritated with him and accuse him of being/playing anti-town regardless of what side he may be on…and yet he turns out to be Town.

Yeah, that’s what I thought.
It’s happened before (many times), it’s happening now, it will no doubt happen again beyond this.

I’ve voted you for being irritating while you were Scum, too. My vote on you now is because you’re derailing the lynch on Prof Pepperwinkle.

And note that I loathe using grudges and other types of meta information from previous games. The only reason I’d use it here is because you hit us over the head with it.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

unvote
vote Prof. Pepperwinkle for explicitly advocating a pro-Scum tactic in D3.339.
vote Thing Fish for revealing that Scum do not learn the identity of everyone on their team on their secret board in D1.253.
vote Idle Thoughts for derailing the lynch train on Prof Pepperwinkle.
vote Boozahol Squid for advocating a deliberate mislynch in D3.499.
vote sinjin for smudging counter-claimable Town in D3.432.
vote Scathach for scolding a player for being too helpful to Town in D1.35.
vote Johnny Bravo for being too defensive and misrepresenting another’s case in D1.265.
vote Plumpudding for refusing to vote when called on it in D1.401.

I’ll likely not have time to post again until Monday.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Johnny_Bravo

Being hostile is a legitimate playing style. Here are some examples of a hostile player:

“As usual, your reasoning is foolish, Paul.”

“I don’t want to be modkilled, just to piss you off.”

“Yeah, that’s the crap way. Since when do players ask for backhanded cheating ways like that?”

“Well, allow me to clue you in to how things are:”

“Extremely stupid and weak reasoning.”

“I’m invalidating that by “you deserve to be irritated due to trying to take the cheating, easy way out”.”

“…but see, the reasons being given are fairly shallow, weak, and foolish…”

If you don’t see how you’re being hostile, I don’t know how to explain it in a way you’d understand.

That’s not me being hostile. You’ll know it when I’m being hostile, trust me. If that’s not me being hostile, just imagine what it’s like when I am.

[Idle_Thoughts]

Add Pleonast to the list of players I strongly think is Town.

[sachertorte]

@storyteller0910

Here’s my thing - speaking as a moderator (but speaking only for myself).

Modkilling is not supposed to be a game mechanic like the lynch or a role-block or a Night kill. In a perfect game, it would never be employed at all. I am reluctant in the extreme to allow players to attempt to manipulate the modkill or game it or incorporate it into a strategy. In my opinion, no player, regardless of alignment, should be happy when a modkill occurs; even if it ostensibly benefits your side, it’s still a sign that the game is not working correctly. What’s the fun in winning a broken game?

My inclination is to reserve modkills only for truly inactive players, players who directly violate the rules, or players who become abusive. However, I will defer to my fellow moderators on the resolution of this particular situation.

I’ll speak as a neutral Third Party.
It’s a tough situation with no clear solution. While I agree that ideally there would be no need for mod-kills, there have already been two, both of which have been Town. I’d argue that it was actually three since Sario basically did the same thing. The cat, so to speak, is already out of the bag.

I reject the notion that getting a scum mod-killed or not bothering to use a Lynch on someone who is about to get mod-killed is somehow ‘unfair.’ It doesn’t make sense to vote for absent players. Period. Is the game supposed to hold so that we Lynch inactive players for some sort of integrity? Why aren’t the scum killing absent players to maintain game integrity?
Scum are killing active players. I don’t see scum being required to rectify the problem of inactive players. Requiring Town to Lynch inactive players is, if not ‘unfair’ then ‘silly.’

Mod-kills aren’t going to break the game. The lack of mod-kills will.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@AngeloftheNorth

How do you get that a modkill would be better? If he’s truly vanilla town, then a modkill plus another (potential) mislynch is worse for town? (I’m not challenging you, I don’t understand and I suspect I’m missing something.)
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Several people have already stated that if he returns, then he would be our lynch choice. By him coming back to post that he wants to be lynched, modkilled, or subbed, he eliminates the modkill option. As VT I would have stayed gone and gotten the modkill so town wouldn’t have to waste a Lynch on me. Regardless of his alignment, I highly doubt scum are going to kill him. He just posted so the mods aren’t going to kill him. If you think subbing someone in at this point would be effective, I disagree.
If he is VT then he knows that us lynching him would be a mislynch, so a modkill would have been preferable. Especially considering that coming back reintroduced the possibility that he’s scum and is using a power.

I’ve openly stated I think that Idle is scum. I am beginning to doubt that Prof is scum and beginning to believe that he is town that stumbled his way into the noose. The only reason I wasn’t voting Idle before was that I felt the mods were going to take care of the problem for us. Idle just removed that option, now I think we should Lynch him.

You were on board with his lynch before he came in, why are you hesitant now? Is it his VT claim, the easiest false claim to make? Is it his reasoning for not being here, which I would expect from lurker scum who only comes around to use a power? I don’t follow your resistance to lynching Idle now.

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[LightFoot]

@Pleonast

(Thanks for the better wording.)

Why do you say I’m not taking into account later posts? My vote list has been changing. Compare my first votes list:

To my latest:

That’s an overlap of one vote. Despite the references to D1 posts, some of those votes were first made after Day One.
.

the votes were made after Day 1 but with a Day one reason.
ie: Thing Fish- we have gone back and forth about how you read the exchange and how I do- and it was a D1 exchange- What have they done lately that pings?
Scathach-was a D1 exchange- Very early. What have they done lately that pings?

Some I do agree with considering current data.
does this make my point clearer?

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Idle_Thoughts

I can’t believe you’d actually try to take the unfair, easy way out, Oh yeah, modkill him. Because if he’s scum…then hey! Free modkill of a scum! Woohoo!
And if he’s not scum, then it saves us from a mislynch of a town player. Woohoo for free/second chances!
Yeah, that’s the crap way. Since when do players ask for backhanded cheating ways like that? Sorry, no modkill for me any more. You’re just gonna have to MISLYNCH me and like it.

Course, you’re free to NOT vote for me too, if you’re THAT unsure that I really may be telling the truth. Heaven forbid THAT ever cross your mind, Johnny Bravo!

Since when do innocent townies work against the town win condition by advocating their own mislynch and preventing a modkill that would allow the town to lynch someone based on actual sleuthing, however flawed that sleuthing may be. If you are town, this is the worst town play ever. A VT that was unable to participate would be remorseful and not want Town to waste a Day on them. You are doing the opposite.

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[paulwhoisaghost]

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

unvote ender

I still like this vote. I don’t know why more people aren’t following. But we don’t have a lot of options with Idle.

I like Enderw24 as a suspect too, my vote was on Prof.P. for similar reasons, but my suspicions of Prof P outweighed those of Enderw24. I’m beginning to doubt those suspicions on Prof P. I’d be willing to consider Enderw24 for Lynch as the game advances pending more info.

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[Idle_Thoughts]

Yeah, well…I changed my mind since then.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Idle_Thoughts

That’s not how the game is played, though. I only offered it up as “choose any of the available options”. But now that I see people are actually wanting to take the easy way out, I changed my mind.

How the game is played is this: You lynch who you think is REALLY scum and if you happen to be wrong and mislynch a townsperson. OOPS! OH well! Try again next time! No free passes to remove a highly suspicious member so you can take a free turn.

You aren’t playing the game. You are trying to take a superior position and teach us all a lesson. This is shit. Your posts and actions benefit no one. Regardless of your alignment you are harming the wincon of your team so that you can grandstand from some ridiculously stupid position and be the center of attention. I don’t understand why you put together a game of this magnitude and then pull this childish bullshit.

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[NAF1138]

@sachertorte

Mod-kills aren’t going to break the game. The lack of mod-kills will.

To that end, we agree with you. This is why it’s written into the rules that inactive players will be killed and why Red was kill earlier (though every attempt was made to sub him).

The situation with Idle is different.

It has been decided, for the moment at least, that we are taking a hands off approach. Will will reconsider at Night.

[Nanook_of_the_North_Shore]

People, Idle wants you to keep engaging with him. This is classic scum “make a lot of noise and waste everyone’s time so they don’t do real searching”. If you keep talking to him, keep trying to convince him he’s wrong about things, he’s just going to keep pushing back at you. And while people are doing that, other people aren’t being discussed. The entire game gets derailed into the Idle Show. Go back to N0, where I talked about a game that got blown up by special ed just flooding the thread with nonsense. That is exactly what Idle is doing, only rather than quoting the gettysburg address at you, he’s arguing over what the definition of is is.

@paulwhoisaghost

I like Enderw24 as a suspect too, my vote was on Prof.P. for similar reasons, but my suspicions of Prof P outweighed those of Enderw24. I’m beginning to doubt those suspicions on Prof P. I’d be willing to consider Enderw24 for Lynch as the game advances pending more info.

You really think it’s a coincidence that Idle decided to pull this little bit of shenanigans RIGHT when Prof P started getting heat? I don’t. Not even a little. He should be next on the list after Idle.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@AngeloftheNorth

No, I wouldn’t. But I might object to him being the third lynch. (We already had a VT modkill.)
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I really don’t get this… you are the one who was so adamant that he was scum to begin with. I talked you out of his lynch in favor of a modkill. Are you really going to make me go back and quite all the times you advocated that he is scum or that you agreed we should let him be modkilled?

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[Johnny_Bravo]

You changed your mind for bad reasons. You changed your mind because you claimed that anybody meeting your proposal with anything but sorrow was taking the “cheating” way out.

Well, I’m sorry you see it that way, but I’m 100% playing for a town victory and I have been since Night 0. You’re a [del]Johnny-[/del] Idle-come-lately who, if VT, would have been better off going quietly into that good night and leaving the game to everyone else.

Real, OOG talk here: Thank you for setting this game up. I’m enjoying myself. I’m sorry you were unable to play. But you hurt town by ghosting and now you’re continuing to hurt town.

Go on, Idle. Get out of here.

[paulwhoisaghost]

@Idle_Thoughts

Well, allow me to clue you in to how things are: Town is my team…and the only reason people started voting for me today is “A durrr…Idle Thoughts has been non active!”
It couldn’t actually be because, you know, I’M BUSY. No, it must mean it’s because I’m scum.
Extremely stupid and weak reasoning. Many people even admit that their vote on me is based on metagaming. Well, you’ll soon see how THAT turns out for ya.

You’re busy? With what? Posting everywhere else on the Internet but here?

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[AngeloftheNorth]

@paulwhoisaghost

Several people have already stated that if he returns, then he would be our lynch choice. By him coming back to post that he wants to be lynched, modkilled, or subbed, he eliminates the modkill option. As VT I would have stayed gone and gotten the modkill so town wouldn’t have to waste a Lynch on me. Regardless of his alignment, I highly doubt scum are going to kill him. He just posted so the mods aren’t going to kill him. If you think subbing someone in at this point would be effective, I disagree.
If he is VT then he knows that us lynching him would be a mislynch, so a modkill would have been preferable. Especially considering that coming back reintroduced the possibility that he’s scum and is using a power.

I’ve openly stated I think that Idle is scum. I am beginning to doubt that Prof is scum and beginning to believe that he is town that stumbled his way into the noose. The only reason I wasn’t voting Idle before was that I felt the mods were going to take care of the problem for us. Idle just removed that option, now I think we should Lynch him.

You were on board with his lynch before he came in, why are you hesitant now? Is it his VT claim, the easiest false claim to make? Is it his reasoning for not being here, which I would expect from lurker scum who only comes around to use a power? I don’t follow your resistance to lynching Idle now.

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Something’s getting lost in translation here, I think because I voiced my opinion as a question. I’ve never been against lynching him. I was against modkilling him, until he started going nuts.
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[Idle_Thoughts]

Blah blah blah…all it is is: You and most others have very weak reasons for voting for me.

MOST ALL of the votes on me are either:

1. Because I was inactive—well, now I’m not.
2. Because of meta gaming----well, that’s stupid reasons for voting for someone.
3. Because they think I’m being annoying or irritating----which doesn’t make one care if I’m actually Town or not, they just want me out of the game.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@Nanook_of_the_North_Shore

People, Idle wants you to keep engaging with him. This is classic scum “make a lot of noise and waste everyone’s time so they don’t do real searching”

You’re the one that’s scum. Normally I’d think “Oh, it’s just a person who is mistaken and thinking I’m scum when I’m not”…but see, I don’t think that’s the case with you.

I think it’s the case with Johnny Bravo…but not you, because you’re being too obvious at trying to make me out to be scum.

[Boozahol_Squid_P.I]

@Pleonast

Lynching third party is simply handing a free mislynch to Scum. You need to make a case why Crys is Scum.

I don’t think Crys is scum. I think Crys is an antagonistic third party. I don’t believe that scum are interested in killing LUTHA off (each scumteam has had a shot and declined) and I worry we’re going to let some number of people steal a win because we’re so damn gung-ho on not touching them.

I know lynching Crys is not nearly as good as lynching scum. But I think it’s a hell of a lot better than lynching another townie, and better than no-lynching. Maybe I’m starting to feel a bit desperate because so far 20% of the player population is dead, and it’s all been town; maybe I’m giving up on the chance for a win today, and just hoping for not another loss.

Bleh.