Thanks, I’ll be here all week.
…longer I’ll bet.
See, I have no problem whatsoever with people choosing virginity.
I have a problem with someone choosing virginity for Christian reasons, VERY PUBLICALLY, then dressing and dancing and acting like a slut.
You sir, are a fucking asshole. In fact, if most guys were like you, and the football player mentioned, I’d join a convent. Why would I want to sleep with someone who saw me like that?
I mean, heaven forbid someone make their own decisions about their own body.
Oh, he didn’t RAPE her so it’s okay? No, he only used her and played her and told her he loved her then dumped her? Good GOD, if that doesn’t suck, what does?
Diogenes are a fucking misogynistic assmunch. I’d rather be celibate for the rest of my life than sleep with someone with your attitude. It’s not fucking worth it.
Mockingbird-it’s not her becoming a fallen woman because she changed her mind (I have issues with that, she should NOT be looked at like that). It’s that the guy who did that to her was such a goddamn prick.
And people WONDER why I’m still single. :mad:
EXACTLY.
On second glance, I did NOT see Diogenes appology, so I appologize for jumping the gun. However, I HATE that attitude.
It seems like every guy I meet ends up being a jerk, or people say, “What, you haven’t had sex? You loser.”
It’s extremely annoying, especially as my current state of virginity is no longer by choice.
Ms. Spears has enough silicone, injected lip enhancements, nose job reconstructions and/or other replacements of parts of her body to date the 6 Million Dollar Man.
If she gives up on her “music” (so to speak), the only career option she has left open to her is inflatable sex doll.
She’s found herself.
DtC Woman have sex with thier hearts and minds. Men with thier dicks. It wasn’t sexual arousal/attraction that got her to lose her virginity. It was the thought of falling in love with this guy and spending the rest of her life with him and living happily ever after.
Shit, I’m a guy and I understand that.
But your apology was sincere, so all is well.
I like reading your posts, that one just came outta left field.
My attitude doesn’t come from misogyny (I’m a house husband/stay at home dad for fuck’s sake. My wife would absolutely not tolerate any sexist bullshit on my part). It’s a reaction against smug religiosity. I think it’s just as annoying when guys do it. I’m responding to the attitude not the sexual status.
FTR, I do not think that a woman is under any obligation to sleep with a guy unless and until she feels like.
Guys who pressure women for sex are assholes.
Guys who lie to women for sex are assholes.
I think it’s much better for teenagers to wait until they are adults and to wait for someone they actually feel something for before they have sex. Monogomous realtionships should absolutely be the template and I wish that men who were promiscuous were subjected to the same social rebuke and hostility that women are subjected to. Guys who father children and attempt to avoid resonsibility should especially, especially, especially be made the pariahs of our society.
Having said all that, people of either sex who wear promise rings and make grandstanding, public declarations that they have promised Jesus that they will wait until marriage are fucking annoying as hell. It would be just as annoying if they were promising not to eat egg-salad…and just about as meaningful.
Lots of things in life suck. One of the most fundamental truths about being a human and living on this ball of rock is that there are going to be things involved in that life that are utterly, completely, totally horrible to go through. Sometimes including our own bad choices based on things we want to believe from people we mistakenly trust.
So she made the choice to sleep with an asshole, and then she chose to let it ruin her life. She didn’t have to choose either of those.
Why do you seem so shocked that human beings do this to each other? They’ve only been doing it since the first human beings picked their knuckles up off the ground and had to find a way to occupy their hands. Women use, play, manipulate and lie to men all the time, for example one guy I know will be paying child support for the next 18 to 22 years because his girlfriend was afraid that he was losing interest in her so she stopped taking her birth control pills and didn’t tell him. He was ‘played’ into fatherhood by someone he trusted and loved because she wanted to trap him. so:
You need a new paintbrush then, because the one you’re using is awfully broad. The assumption that all women are so emotionally tied to sex, IMO, is actually part of the problem for some women. That head trip was tried on me, telling me that because I’m a woman that naturally my heart and mind is involved in sex and that if I were to have sex with someone who I later found out was an asshole, I’d be destroyed. Major fucking disservice, Batman.
Maybe if this gigantic ‘you will be forever emotionally and mentally crushed if you have sex with anyone other than your one true love because women cannot deal with sex that doesn’t involve love’ mind fuck was ended people would be a lot less screwed up over screwing. Stop telling women for their entire lives that they have to always put their heart and mind into sex instead of enjoying it for the physical pleasure of it, really. Some people will always tie emotion to sex, but is it really necessary to put that kind of head trip on a person? What if you had been told your whole life that all you really wanted was to wait until you could marry your one true love and that having sex with someone who didn’t love you would leave you an emotional wreck? Would you start to believe it, even if it wasn’t true?
Britney Spears? Not a virgin?
First the news that LIberace isn’t straight and now this!
If anybody has any news about the Pope not shitting in the woods, spare me, please!
I can only take so much …
Ooooh! Can you imagine what would happen if she hooked up with Christina? (And then to complete the image, and thus confirm that we’ve died and gone to Heaven, the Olsen twins join in!
)
And on that note, we agree. I mean, if they believe in waiting until marriage for religious reasons, fine. But why go around telling everyone-it’s nobody’s business!
Oh, come on, most of them publicly announce their virginity because they feel their “higher” standards of sexual conduct (whether or not they originate in religious conviction) makes them better people than those who don’t do the same … i.e., most everybody. And it IS fucking annoying, because they’ll never admit to any such motivations even though it’s blindingly obvious that they’re there.
Which is what I think prompted DtC’s post, the feeling that people like that need a comeuppance of some sort.
Well i’m sorry if the paintbrush I was using didn’t revolve around you. I’m not telling woman that they have to do anything. That’s just how it is.
Would you rather tell everybody sex is pointless and doesn’t signify love between 2 people, and we should all fuck like bunny’s with hats off.
Yea pleasure is a part of sex, no woman should be denied that pleasure. But damn, it’s naive to think everyone has the same dull feeling about sex as you. more than ‘some’ people will tie emotion to sex… it’s human nature.
umm nix that dull feeling about sex comment. Reread your post again, don’t think it was warrented.
sorry bout that
One of my friends was determined not to have sex until she was married. She didn’t go around telling other people to do the same, but whenever the subject of her having sex came up, she would mention it. One day, however, we had this conversation:
“Guess what… [whispering] I had sex.”
“Haha, you’re kidding. How was it?”
“It was awesome!”
And I was not sad or disappointed at all, in fact I was glad that she had, er, seen the light. I had always suspected that she wouldn’t keep her promise, and I was just waiting for it to happen. Does that make me a fucknut too?
I think what some people in this discussion are missing is that you aren’t going to know if someone plans to stay virgin if they aren’t preachy about it. That is, unless you’re trying to sleep with that person or you’re a good enough friend that they talk to you about their sex life. There are probably plenty of virgins out there who quietly enjoy their chosen lifestyle with no harm done to innocent sex-loving bystanders.
I have a friend who isn’t preachy but who does want to stay a virgin. It’s very important to her because she takes sex and babies and STDs and all other sorts of things quite seriously. She might not wait for a ring on her finger and signed papers specifically, but she is going to wait until there’s that level of dedication. If someone lied to her about having that level of dedication, then ran out on her as a ‘joke,’ I can’t express how pissed I’d be. It’s not rape, sure, but something doesn’t have to be rape to be damned nasty. And while I think she’s strong enough that she’d survive, I’m sure she’d have serious trust issues afterwards. Who wouldn’t? If she changed her mind of her own will and decided to have sex with someone she liked casually, I wouldn’t be upset, only surprised. If she liked it I’d be happy. But if she’d been decieved because someone else had some kinda personal vendetta against virginity… well whoo boy.
Mearlchan, there’s a significant difference between perachy and honest. If someone plans to stay a virgin, that information can become known because they’re marching around with Promise Rings and Pledge Cards and evangelizing their friends to jump on the chastity bandwagon or because when talking about sex (as friends tend to do, especially teenagers) they’ve said “I’m not going to have sex until I’m married.” and answered all the questions that would follow such a declaration. (“Why?” “Because sex to me is important enough to save…” “Because I’m a Christian and I believe that it’s what the Bible teaches is right…” “Because I only want to bond that way with one person…” Whatever.)
The story of a virtuous woman renouncing her chastity to a cad who has manipulated her in order to win a bet or just because he wants the challenge or because it will destroy her and cause grief to her father/husband/family is an old one that hasn’t improved in execution or concept in ages. (See “Dangerous Liasions” and the poor teenybopper copycat “Cruel Intentions” for the exact same story.)
I can’t see that this kind of behavior is going to go away until we realign the way that we view sex and virginity. Sex in a partnership of equals isn’t a conquest, victory, payoff or reward. Virginity is a condition, a label with a specific definition, not a commodity which can be taken, given, lost, stolen. So long as we’re clutching to such outmoded ideas, this kind of nonsense will continue.
As a parting shot, Diogenes, you’ve stepped in it. As Lezlers said, any shred of respect I may have had has vaporized. :rolleyes
In my case, it’s not about chastity and the protection of women. I’m a gay woman, but if I had sex with a woman I cared about and she proceeded to dump me because all she cared about was getting me in the sack while telling me differently, I’d be upset. If it were some kind of twisted joke, I’d be especially upset. Not because I thought of myself as a ‘fallen woman’ but because I’d been lied to and used by someone I cared about. If I had a male friend who valued his virginity (it happens :eek: ) and some wily female got him in the sack by pretending to like him, then dumped him, I’d be just as pissed.
Although I’ll admit, I’m not quite sure what your point is, tlw. My only point is that it’s a nasty thing to do, period. It is nasty even if she’s been bragging about it. It’s like the ridiculous “Make the vegetarian eat meat!” game some people play. Bragging about it is poor manners, but trying to subvert someone’s morals is even worse manners. And while some people here seem to argue that sex shouldn’t be given that kind of weight, I don’t even get naked around people I’m not pretty close to, so I sure don’t have sex with them. Having sex is making yourself vunerable to someone else. Betraying that for kicks is nasty, nasty, nasty. And knowing the person takes sex very seriously just adds whole new layers of nastiness.
Whoa, what was up with me and the phrase “in the sack” in that last post? eyes it warily