Mearlchan, I’m pretty sure we’re in complete agreement.
But I can’t help you with that “in the sack” thing. 
Fair enough.
To quote a guy from my high school physics class, “I can’t wait for her career to bomb and for her to turn to porn.”
By the by, what’s with her boobs. They’re big in one picture, they’re small in the next. I think she has a pump hooked up to them like Shake in the plastic surgery episode of Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
Seriously, if anyone knows I would love to hear it.
Mr2001:
No, you miss the point entirely.
Having a vegetarian friend who finally turns to meat – cool! You can go to the same barbecues now.
Having a vegetarian friend who is slipped meat while she’s all unaware – the person who slipped her the meat (good lord, that’s a bad pun) is an asshole.
Not exactly the same thing, but do you see where I’m coming from?
No, because the girl consciously had sex with the football player.
And hey-I think it would be nasty to do to someone who WASN’T a virgin. Deceiving someone is just, well, NOT a good thing.
catsix, yes, we are all aware how tough and strong and capable you are. However, NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU.
Just because YOU can cope with these things does not mean other people could.
“…slipped her the meat…” heh, heh, heh, that’s a good one.
While that is true, she was deceived as to the nature of the sex.
While I wouldn’t call it rape, I do see where Little Plastic Ninja’s analogy holds, in the same way that we can’t call someone who feeds a vegetarian meat deceptively a poisoner.
Admittedly, it’s not perfect, but the deception is the issue here.
I don’t see why everyone is so down on catsix. S/He made a lot of sense in that post.
The idea of virginity as a commodity is a dinosaur from another era, an era in which women were chattel. In some countries where virginity is prized, they still are. The link between the “preservation of virtue” and the enslavement of women is too entrenched to ignore.
Know because she still knew she was getting meat. A better analogy might be that someone convinces a vegetarian that eating a steak will cure her dandruff. She got deceived about the effects but she knew she was eating a steak.
I mean “no, because she still knew…”
Did you note Diogenes’s elaboration, in which he conceded that his initial post was based upon a misconception about what sort of preachy person was being discussed, and in which he conceded that his initial post contained a certain amount of hyperbole?
I was one of the first people to disagree with his initial post, but i think his subsequent post makes his position much clearer, and far more reasonable. And, as i said before, the preachy, holier-than-thou wait-til-marriage types are annoying in the extreme. If they’re going to openly and loudly proclaim me inferior for having pre-marital sex, i’m going to reserve the right to laugh very loudly when they fall from their pedestal.
Yes that fits better.
Why is it considered impractical to abstain before marriage?
Just curious.
Right-o, that does fit better.
And virginity’s not a commodity like it used to be…but that doesn’t mean that a girl is Wrong if she feels it’s important.
It’s still not a perfect analogy, because the girl said she’d have sex under a set of circumstances which she thought were fulfilled (tru luv and soon expected marriage circumstances.) If the vegetarian had agreed she’d eat meat when some kind of circumstance was fullfilled (say, it being proven animals have no feelings,) she thought that circumstances was fulfilled and she ate meat, and then she found out that she’d been tricked, it’d be more applicable.
People value their virginity for all sorts of reasons. Sure, the idea that women are more valuable as virgins is a “dinosaur from another era,” but I’m an atheist. I think religion is too. But it doesn’t give me the right to try to trick people into committing what they believe are sins against their religion. People have the right to outmoded beliefs and trying to trick them into betraying those beliefs because you don’t believe the same isn’t helping.
And that’s exactly the principle I see reflected in all the Britney-bashing. I admired her for going public with her virginity, and I admire her (sorta) for speaking honestly about her life now.
She was a teenager when she came to the decision to wait until marriage; I made the same decision at that age, and no I didn’t stick to it either. But making it got me through my teens to a point I could make the choice with a lot more wisdom. A teenager needs something more concrete to hold onto than “I’ll wait until I’m ready,” cuz damned if you don’t feel ready every Friday night after the football team wins (not an issue at my punk-ass school!).
Britney’s going public with her self-promise is pretty ooky to most of us civilians, but she was already a public figure under intense scrutiny and recognized that a lot of young girls looked to her as a role model. So she chose to set as good an example as she could. As for her hip-swinging, skin-baring image, I saw no contradiction in that. I saw a young woman acknowledging and reveling in her sexuality while maintaining ownership and control over it. She showed that as a virgin you don’t have to be Pollyanna and let others define you; you can be a sexual being and still be responsible to and for yourself.
So now she’s an adult and has reassessed her earlier pledge. She was in love with a man she thought she’d spend her life with and chose to be physically intimate with him, and it didn’t work out. So now she’s stumbling through life like the rest of us, trying to make the best decisions she can with little to go on. She doesn’t owe anyone but herself any more promises, and she’s showing that you don’t have to be a slut just because the world wants to make you into one.
If she cares, virginity can be physically re-establishhed via plastic surgery.
I’m probably not going to express this well at all, but what disturbs me about Hymengate is that Britney Spears’s virginity was packaged as part of her pop idol image. So in the words of kung fu lola, her virginity really was a commodity, marketed for and targeted at young girls who saw her as a role model (and still do) and their parents who did the same. I don’t know if I’m angry or sad about that. Probably a little bit of both. And great post, don’t mind me.
I think I was actually more struck by this statement:
Apos,
I think a symptom of virginity can be restored by plastic surgery, not virginity.