Yes, it IS “warranted”. Touching you against your will on a private part of your body such as the breast is sexual assault my dear. Granted, it’s NOT on the level of rape but it IS a form of assault and he CAN be prosecuted for it, at least in theory. You may choose not to press charges, but that does not make it OK or too trifling to deal with.
The first time he touched you might - MIGHT - have been drunken misunderstanding. But you told him no, correct? You were clear on that, correct? And he persisted. Hey, NO MEANS NO. Period.
No, you can make a state or civil case out of it. Or have a lawyer write him a really nasty, threatening letter. There are different levels of discouraging this sort of bullshit behavior.
And no, he might not be a rapist. On the other hand, he didn’t stop his behavior, either, when asked to do which makes me wonder if he wouldn’t be at high risk for date rape, if nothing else.
Did you bother to read the second paragraph of my post? Here, let me post it again, this time with emphasis. . .
So yeah, I get that he committed assault against CaerieD.
Fucking DUH. What part of my post made you think I didn’t get that, either? The guy was an ASS. He committed assault and battery. He physically VIOLATED Caerie.
But raking the poor girl over the coals because she didn’t immediately file a police report in order to help protect all the other women in the community from him is ridiculous. Not only was there a lot of conclusions being jumped to, there was an attitude of condemnation for having made the wrong choice in the moment. All I tried to do was make Caerie feel less bad about her immediate reaction, first by reminding her that not only doesn’t she have to save the world, she hasn’t necessarily released a would-be-rapist out into the wild, and second, by reminding her that if she does decide in the cold light of day, that filing charges against this pig is the right thing to do, or will make her feel better, then she can certainly still do so.
Yuck. Horrid story. What a dick. Most bartenders I know are too busy fendeing off their own unwanted suitors, so I can only imagine how busy he/she/they are on New Year’s. As for calling the cops… maybe I’m jaded, but I’ve had this sort of thing happen to me in bars and out on the street and never once called the cops. Sometimes it was because the guy didn’t stick around (and if the onlookers didn’t help me I sure as hell didn’t expect them to talk to the polics), sometimes I was just too stunned, sometimes I think I just believed, rightly or wrongly, that there wasn’t much they would or could do. Just not worth it. Kick to the balls, on the other hand…
Considering that I live in a town with a population of about 1300 people, the drunken idiot was born and raised here, and I’ve only lived here for two years it would not go over well if I troubled the local police with this. Honestly, as disgusted as I was by the guy’s behavior, it would accomplish absolutely nothing for me to go to the police, except make my life more difficult.
Does that make me a bad person, for not “protecting” the other women this guy might harass? Possibly. I have to think about myself, though, and I’ve dealt with the police around here before and I know how they operate and exactly what kind of respect (and, hell, understanding) they have for the law. I have to live here and deal with the community, so I’d rather not cause trouble for myself that, knowing how the people around here talk, would probably just earn me a reputation of a lying slut.
:mad: It’s bad thing to be violated by a drunk in a bar, and it’s another terrible thing to be violated by the fear of going to one’s own police department. Both things make me very angry.
I’m very sorry you were put in this terrible situation. One can only hope that this jerkoff gets what’s coming to him.
I am sorry you had to deal with that crap while just trying to enjoy yourself. I don’t blame you for not wanting to get the cops involved, especially given your perception of how they’d respond to your complaint.
No, it doesn’t make you a bad person.
It often seems that it does take people standing up for things to change that kind of pervasive attitude.
I’ve got a personal situation that I think would let me win an ADA suit against McDonald’s and a couple of other McJob places, and, frankly, the probable benefits for the years long crusade it would take to win such a suit just doesn’t seem worth it to me. (A years long legal battle, which to do any damned good for changing public attitudes would have to be publicized widely, where the end result of a “win” is an effing McJob? Color me unimpressed.) Which doesn’t change my recognition that someone should make such a suit - to make the effort to try to change some of the public attitudes out there.
So, while I don’t blame you in the least, I’m saddened all the same. But I’m not casting any stones. I’d have to drop a house on myself, first, before I could.
[hijack] Usually, the term “sexual assault” is applied to statutes that have replaced outdated “rape” statutes. So when you say someone has been sexually assaulted, you’re probably talking about a rape victim. I was going to point out that, while it might be assault, there’s no way this could be considered sexual assault.
However, looking over the Wisconsin sexual assault statute (W.S.A. 940.225), it looks like they do have a lower degree of sexual assault where this would fit. Fourth degree sexual assault:
With one definition of "sexual contact being:
First, second, and third degree sexual assault involve rape, injury to the victim, unconsciousness of the victim, pregnancy, and stuff like that. [/hijack]
I’d be careful about allowing strangers to buy you drinks, even if you take them directly from the bartender. For many guys, especially drunken ones, the act of accepting the drink is a sign of interest… and that might encourage bad behavior (like the creep in your story). It’s best to play it safe.
Having lived in a small town where this was definitely the general perception of the guys, I agree with nyctea scandiaca. If you go out again in town, it’s safer not to accept drinks from people you don’t know very well as okay people.
Still, I remember a similar thing happening to me when I was young and, like you, I backed away and looked for a safe haven. I made sure I said “no no no” in a loud enough voice for the people nearby to hear that I was NOT welcoming the gestures.
The law wasn’t very clear about such things back in that antediluvian era, though, so reporting a crime or misdemeanour just wasn’t a possibility.
Still, I long regretted not stomping on his foot with my high heels.
Don’t worry, CaerieD, hindsight is always easier than knowing exactly the right thing to do at the right time in some situations. You did fine, and you learnt something useful. I almost forgot–what everyone said: you were not asking for it, and being dressed nicely, or sexy, is your prerogative.
As a guy, I detest the mentality that women ever dress in a manner which is “asking for” groping/assault from men. It contributes to the cultural assholery of men and it causes women to be less likely to dress provocatively. The guy has committed a crime against humanity.
Saying, “please put your hand up my shirt” would be the only thing I would think of as “asking for it.” And don’t do that, either. Many of us are shy and would find that to be socially awkward.
Guy here. Your OP makes me want to stomp the shit out that dickhead, and I don’t even know you. (Or him)
Scum like that gives the rest of us a bad name/reputation.
If you don’t have his name, I think a police report might be a waste of time at this point.
It sounds like there’s a fair chance you might run into him again - and I would class his persistence and pursuit of you in the incident you describe as possibly indicative of danger.
Of course it might be the case that he’s never done anything like that before and is now wringing his hands in horror at his own stupidity, but then again, maybe not.
Are any of the pepper/mace personal defence products legal to carry and use in your area?
No, hon, you are NOT the bad person here. You have to do what you need to do to take care of yourself. What I objected to was the tone where you were trivializing the fact he touched you against your will. How you deal with it is entirely up to you.
While I agree with everyone that it is completely appropriate to call the police in all cases of molestation, including yours, I don’t want to keep heaping this advice on you. A horrible thing has already happened, and I don’t need you feeling any guilt over it.
It was a shocking situation you were suddenly caught in and there was alcohol involved on both sides (though more so with him I understand). I can totally see how you would just want to go home, close your doors, and just try to feel safe again.
On behalf of drunk dudes everywhere I apologize for what happened to you.
While I agree with everyone that the guy was a complete shithead and completely out of order, this all happened on a crowded dance floor. Why didn’t you make a fuss when it happened, scream, kick him in the nuts? Why didn’t you get the “nice but intimidating” guy to get you a taxi?
He was a shit certainly but it was New Years Eve and drunken shits are part of the parcel, that doesn’t make them criminals (just drunk shitheads) you and your mate should have stuck together like glue and when the shithead did his SHITTY thing you were in a crowded place so probably pretty safe.
Trying to do something after the fact seems futile.
