Intersexuals, that’s it. I think hermaphrodite is misleading since it implies a person has both sets of sex organs, which is rarely the case for intersexuals (who usually have something in between).
IIRC, the intersexual community is very concerned with lobbying various medical groups to make sex assignment at birth illegal. When someone is born intersexual they are reassigned at an early age- usually as a female, since a vagina is easier to construct than a penis- and then their families are told to run with what’s assigned. Many intersexuals later grow to regect their assigned gender or even gender as a concept at all. They feel that people should have the right to choose if they are assigned a gender.
It’s important to keep in mind that gender identity and sexual orientation are completely different things, although they are very often lumped together. Of course, intersexuals really throw a wrench in the idea of sexual orientation.
Including cross-dressers? There is a difference between cross dressers and TG persons - some would say a fine line, but I think most TG persons would say it is a wider difference. One of the primary ones being that TG persons are not sexually excited by dressing as the sex they are inside. Rather, they may cross dress just to feel “right” about themselves. There may be eroticism associated with it, but it is not the driving force behind the dressing.
What do you mean by tg persons? Every definition I have seen includes cross dressers in the definition. I cannot even find a definition of transgender that doesen’t include them.
Besides from what I have read about cross dressers is that they don’t do it for the eroticism.
The term for this is “intersexual”. It is incorrect to refer to intersexuals as transgendered; intersexual overrides all other categorization. Many argue that is impossible to assign terms such as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or transgendered to intersexuals because their (original) sex is poorly defined and the other terms require a well-defined sex identification as a precondition.
I am an aging het/male. I have read this whole thread and found it very informative. Such things as who you listen to and what you wear. Can’t say that it is my favorite subject or one that I spend a lot of time thinking about, but I’m glad I stuck it out and got so many different angles. I hope it isn’t out of place for me to post here or that you feel I was invading you girl’s privacy.
First Google hit:
Well, it’s already been answered, but to remake the point. ~_^
Transsexual is specifically someone who has had/is having sex reassignment surgery. Transgendered is someone who does not identify with their birth gender. Whether this means the opposite gender, bo gender, what have you, that can vary. Now, transsexuals are generally transgendered, but the reverse is not necessarily true.
However, supporting your point, is the second Google hit: :o
“Transgendered”, in my opinion, is akin to what nomenclaturists call a “non-clade classification.” The general grouping of “transgendered” includes many diverse and unrelated groups of individuals, the only common characteristic of which is that they violate, in some way, social gender stereotypes; usually, but not always, related to clothing; and usually, but not always, by substituting some of the behaviors stereotypically associated with the opposite gender. This makes the categorization almost useless, and frequently harmful.
The broader definition of “transgendered” is most at home as the bastard stepchild in the “GLBT” family. Unfortunately, Ts tend to share relatively few of the issues of Gs, Ls, or Bs, and the unfortunate grouping of T with GLB has reinforced the incorrect belief that “transsexual” is “just another sexual orientation”. On top of that, the sheer diversity within the T grouping means that most Ts share relatively few issues even with one another; you have to break it down more specifically (e.g. TS, FI, DQ, genderfuck, fetish CD, non-fetish CD, etc.) before you get to commonalities worth mentioning. As a result, I am very wary of the term “transgender” used broadly like this; I prefer the narrower use, referringto non-fetish crossdressers who have no intention of seeking reassignment, on the grounds that this is actually a useful categorization describing a group of people with at least some shared characteristics.
Ah, Lamia, my heartfelt thanks for that wonderful trip down memory lane, that being one of my very first posts, and also for the disturbingly narcissistic pleasure of enjoying reading my own writing.
Perhaps you are right about the forum, though I wasn’t really looking for a debate, just asking some questions. But, I am guilty of perpetuating a hijack here, so if no one answers them, I will shuffle off without complaint.
Of course, if you would like to revive that thread, or start a new one in that forum, I would be delighted to join you.
1) What do you identify as?
Bi-sexual, with very little bi experience. The few people who are closest to me believe that I will eventually realize that I’m purely into women, but since women terrify the hell out of me, it might be a while before I swear off men.
2) How short is your hair?
I am currently growing my hair out after having it shaved to the skin. It’s about earlobe-length now.
3) Is it a natural color?
My hair changes colors throughout the year, from deep honey color to a golden blonde in summertime. Currently there are some white-blonde streaks.
4) If you play sports, what are they?
I have never been very good at any sport except swimming, at which I excel. Recently I have started practicing karate, which keeps me alternately humble and cocky.
5) Do people look at you and think you are terribly terribly gay?
Um, no. Sometimes I wish I did.
6) Do you shave your legs?
It doesn’t really matter - sometimes yes, sometimes no, depending on mood mostly.
7) Your head? Your armpits?
Shaved my head once, probably won’t do it again unless I discover a method of growing hair out in less than a year. Kept my pits natural for about 2 years and loved it - it was short and very silky, but am now smooth-pitted.
8) What about the queer female community annoys you?
I’m not really involved in any female community, but one thing I’ve noticed is the aforementioned “incest circle”, and the fact that people tend to jump from relationship (or bed) to another very quickly. Also that it is very political and I don’t really operate that way.
9) What is your idea of dressing up?
Putting on clothes 
mostly nice pants & sweaters, skirts.
10) Do you wear makeup?
Only minimally. My eyebrows & eyelashes are naturally dark black so I don’t need much definition there.
11) What are “stereotypically lesbian” things that you do/wear/eat? (Expansive question, I know, but work with me.)
I can’t think of any but am not too aware of them.
12) What queer/ friendly female recording artists do you listen to?
Well, I have always liked most female singer/songwriters, including many mentioned earlier.
13) Any thoughts on the butch-femme thing?
Not really - I remember having a massive crush on my 5th grade P.E. teacher, and she was pretty butch. I think my main attraction to obviously butch women is that my “gaydar” sucks so badly, they are the only women I am immediately aware of as seeming gay.
14) Were you a repressed Catholic schoolgirl?
Nope, but I was raised by a repressed Southern Baptist.
15) What do you feel are three very important queer woman issues?
the recognition of gay unions and dual adoptions.
16) How good is your gaydar?
Horrible. Any hints?
18) Describe your dating patterns. (U-Haul, serial monogamy, whatever.)
Guess you could call it serial monogamy. Was seriously involved with a man for the last 2 years and was engaged for most of that time. We bailed out 6 days before our wedding was supposed to happen, and he told me (among other things) that he didn’t want to be with me again until I’d experienced being with a woman (and he doesn’t have that boring and typical male fantasy of watching 2 women). I’ve come to the brink of going on dates with 2 different women and scared away at the last minute. Meanwhile I’m dating another guy.
Thanks again to andygirl, Sterra, Anthracite, and all the others for the interesting info on transgendered vs. transsexual. Very interesting and informative! You’re all officially now in my Cool Book. 
-
What do you identify as? lesbian
-
How short is your hair? I have dreadlocks and they’re each about an inch and a half long.
-
Is it a natural color? yup
-
If you play sports, what are they? none
-
Do people look at you and think you are terribly terribly gay? some do(those with operating gaydars). others are surprised when they find out i’m gay
-
Do you shave your legs? never
-
Your head? Your armpits? no; yes
-
What about the queer female community annoys you? More than anything else, I’d have to say the emphasis of the whole butch-femme thing. I hate it when people say “Well which one are you in the relationship?” It’s so stereotypical.
-
*What is your idea of dressing up?*some khakis, a polo shirt, and some sketchers
-
Do you wear makeup? no
-
What are “stereotypically lesbian” things that you do/wear/eat? hmm. i look pretty androgynous most of the time. i love guy clothing and shoes(not that those things constitue a lesbian identity, but you know…)
-
What queer/ friendly female recording artists do you listen to? I have absolutely LOVE the Indigo Girls.
-
Any thoughts on the butch-femme thing? see #8
-
Were you a repressed Catholic schoolgirl?
lol. no -
What do you feel are three very important queer woman issues? feminism(duh!), adoption/parenting rights, the right to marry
-
How good is your gaydar? i wish i had one!
-
How “incestuous” is your dating scene? what dating scene?
-
*Describe your dating patterns. (U-Haul, serial monogamy, whatever.)*if I was dating someone now, it’d be serial monogamy. I attach to someone easily and quickly
-
Did you/do you date men? How’s that working for you? i stopped dating men in 9th grade
-
Any thoughts on good and bad representations of queer woman in popular culture? i’m not too familiar with today’s pop culture. yes, im a big nerd
1) What do you identify as?
If someone asks, I just say ‘bent’ or ‘gay’, depending on my mood. Of course it’s a lot more complicated than that. I’m not attracted to specific genders, I’m attracted to certain personality types. I find the female body more aesthetically pleasing in general, but there is different beauty in everyone’s body.
2) How short is your hair?
Mid-back. The shortest it’s been in a long time.
3) Is it a natural color?
Yep. It’s my natural nut-brown color, with one stripe of caramel-brown on my left side, under my hair. That way I can arrange it so it can be seen or not, depending on how I do my hair.
4) If you play sports, what are they?
Gah. I’ve never liked sports. I love to swim, though. Rivers are my favorite.
5) Do people look at you and think you are terribly terribly gay?
No, I don’t think so.
6) Do you shave your legs?
Sometimes. Mostly in the summer.
7) Your head? Your armpits?
My head? No! I like my hair. I think it suits my personality. My armpits, yes. I don’t like armpit hair on anyone.
8) What about the queer female community annoys you?
I’m not really a part of the QFC.
9) What is your idea of dressing up?
Make-up on, hair up, beautiful skirt/dress, high heels or nice shoes. Jewelry. Purse instead of backpack.
10) Do you wear makeup?
Only when I’m dressing up, or feeling down. Less than once a month.
11) What are “stereotypically lesbian” things that you do/wear/eat? (Expansive question, I know, but work with me. ;))
Well… I like arty movies. Folk-ish music. I’m not sure what lesbian cusine would be.
12) What queer/ friendly female recording artists do you listen to?
I don’t listen to that many female recording artists, actually. I have extremely varried music tastes. My favorite band right now is Placebo. [sub]Mmmmm…Brian…[/sub]
13) Any thoughts on the butch-femme thing?
My girl of nine years (we started young) has short black-and-purple hair (I do it myself), and wears a lot of black. She often wears steel-toed boots. It’s a very rare day that I wear pants or shorts. I adore barettes and stickers and all things shiny. She patiently stands by and then buys them for me.
BUT, she is not the one ‘controlling’ the relationship. We’re equal partners. She dresses as she does because it pleases her, and because I adore seeing her all ‘tuff’, I dress as I do because dresses and skirts often last longer than pants and I’m frugal to a fault. The flow of the fabric also pleases me.
SO- from the outside, it probably looks like a stereotype, but from the inside, it’s different.
14) Were you a repressed Catholic schoolgirl?
Heh, no. For the first two years of my life my mom and I lived with an abusive alcoholic grandfather. Then we lived with my abusive alcoholic father. Then we lived with my abusive and super-controlling alcoholic stepfather. But, public school.
15) What do you feel are three very important queer woman issues?
I sort of see it as ‘equality’ issues, not just for women, and not just for gays.
- The portrayal of men in television and media as bumbling jackasses. Yes, some men are bumbling jackasses. So are some women.
- The gap in acceptance between male and female homosexuality bothers me quite a bit.
- Tolerance education in our schools starting in kindergarten and going all the way through high school would be a good thing. How could it possibly be bad to teach children to be tolerant of other’s beliefs and ideas?
16) How good is your gaydar?
Well, my not-a-jerk-about-it-dar is pretty good. I surround myself with happy, open-minded people.
17) How “incestuous” is your dating scene?
I’ve never really had a ‘dating scene’. Heck, I’ve never really dated.
18) Describe your dating patterns. (U-Haul, serial monogamy, whatever.)
I’ve always been very serious about my relationships. Friendships or otherwise, I throw into them whole-heart. There’s not much point in having interactions with people if you don’t intend to keep them and help them, loving and safe.
19) Did you/do you date men? How’s that working for you?
Yes, twice I have been involved with a man. Both were disasterous friendship-breakers. Both times I had been friends with them for years beforehand. Both times they were minipulative little snots that weren’t honest about their feelings. I don’t think that that’s a male trait, though. Just a manipulative little snot trait.
20) Any thoughts on good and bad representations of queer woman in popular culture?
Too often the depiction of gay couples in TV and movies is so two-dimensional. It’s a bit like the writers only fill in the relationship and not the character. People in relationships are still individuals, and should be treated as such. They’re just individuals whose life twines around that of another person.
21) Tell me a coming out story. Doesn’t have to be yours. Funny, tragic, whatever.
When I was a senior in highschool, and I’d been hanging out with my girl, a freshman, for about 8 months. One day, I was brushing her hair while we were listening to music. She turned around to me and said “You know, if you were a boy, I’d marry you.”
I paused, surprised. Trying to find something to say, I said, “You know, two girls can have a relationship, too. So can two boys.”
My naive darling was surprised. “Really?” I just nodded. “then I will marry you when we get older.”
I said, “Uhm…don’t I get some sort of say in this?”
Apparently, I didn’t. We had a civil union on July 23rd of 2000.
Gravity, great “coming out story”! Maybe there is hope for me after all! 
Can’t be botherd doing the whole survey, but just wanted to say, there are lots of fantastic straight people out there, who are accepting of us gay folks. One person I know, who has always acted like the biggest homophobic redneck out there, completely changed her story when she realised one of her best friends is gay. She now defends gay people publically, which has restored my faith in her decency as a human being. The other stuff came from her upbringing, which was somewhat sheltered.
Gravity, that’s incredibly cool.
So you’re a Vermonter then? Quietgirl and I have bandied around the idea of getting a CU, but we’ll see how that goes. I’m so close to the border that there’s 80 million “take back vermont/ take vermont forward” bumper stickers 'round here, which is just interesting.
I want to play! Sorry to bump up an old thread, but I’m starting to come to terms with my sexuality and this is a good place to talk about it a little bit rubs hands together
- lesbian
- around my shoulders
- yep, dark brown
- I did gymnastics in high school, and I’ve danced since fifth grade
- No, I don’t think I seem gay at all, I’m not out to many people yet, but I don’t think anyone suspects
- yeah, when it’s summer, and once every few days in the winter
- my head - no, my armpits - yes
- I’m not part of the queer female community, but from what I hear, I think I’ll be annoyed by the heavy interest in politics
- Dressing up - depends on the situation, but I like going super fancy for events like prom, for a night at the theater, I’ll probably wear dress pants and a sweater or nice shirt, I like wearing dresses too
- make-up - yes
- I had no idea corduroy pants and folk music were staples of the lesbian community - woohoo! I like both of those.
- I like Ani DiFranco, I guess I don’t really know a lot of queer-friendly musicians
- no thoughts on butch-femme
- repressed Catholic - nope, though I am Christian and my biggest struggle in dealing with my homosexuality has been getting around the God issues
- adoption rights, educating kids about tolerance, and visibility - I know so many more gay guys than girls, is it just that more guys are out?
- not particularly good gaydar, better with guys than girls though
- I haven’t dated yet, so I really don’t know, but my city (Columbus) seems pretty gay friendly so I would guess it’s not too bad
- No dating patterns just yet
- I dated guys in high school (I’m in my second year of college now) and it was just awful. I knew that I was gay but I hadn’t come to terms with it and I was hoping I could still be attracted to guys. The guys were great and they were fun to be around, but I knew I was leading them on and it wasn’t fair to them, and I know it hurt them a lot after I broke it off with them (dated each for about a month). After the second time, I promised myself I would never do it again, it was just a mess.
- It seems so many shows have a token gay guy because it’s trendy now, but I can’t think of many shows or movies that have lesbian characters. I feel like the lesbian stereotype is stronger than the gay male stereotype, people have come to see homosexual men aren’t necessarily effeminate but lesbians are still almost always thought of as butch.
- One of my classes last quarter was a class on social justice, and on the second class, as an exercise we were given these paper stars, we wrote our names in the middle and on the arms of the star, my teacher would read off a category and we’d say how we identified in it (e.g. gender - woman, race - caucasion, etc.) I got really nervous because I knew my teacher was going to say sexuality and I wasn’t sure if I was ready to admit I was gay, I was waiting and waiting for it, and barely breathing and my star got wrinkled cause my palms were sweating so much. When he finally said sexuality I lost my courage and wrote heterosexual, and the letters looked so ugly and I got so depressed looking at it because I knew it wasn’t me and it really upset me that I couldn’t accept myself, I felt so low BUT THEN the second part of the exercise was learning how to interact if we couldn’t use our personal characteristics as grounds for relating to people, and my teacher asked us to tear off of our stars our characteristics that we would be most willing to sacrifice and it was a powerful moment for me to tear off Heterosexual from my star, and while everyone else was whining about how hard it was to decide what part to lose, I crumpled up the paper and threw it out, it felt wonderful. It’s eerie how figurative the exercise was for me, and later that night, I came out for the first time to anyone to my roommate, and she was totally supportive (and surprised!)
sorry to get back to the old thread, but I wanna respond too!
-
What do you identify as? Dyke! (that’s actually my gender identity as well as my sexual orientation - it’s kinda hard to explain…)
-
How short is your hair? short
-
Is it a natural color? nope
-
If you play sports, what are they? I used to play soccer and softball, but now I just rock climb and hike. I’m hoping to start yoga - I think it might really work for me
-
Do people look at you and think you are terribly terribly gay? Actually, I think they think I’m beautifully gay when they look at me. Well sometimes, I guess it depends on the day…
-
Do you shave your legs? no
-
Your head? Your armpits? not yet, and no
-
What about the queer female community annoys you? that being short and not playing sports somehow makes me femme - no offense to the femmes or anything, but I have a hard time dealing with that…
-
What is your idea of dressing up? depends knee high boots, short skirts, jacket and tie, slacks, low cut shirts, whatever I’m in the mood for
-
Do you wear makeup? no
-
What are “stereotypically lesbian” things that you do/wear/eat? I hike and climb and I’m an outward bound instructor. I take lots of women’s studies classes. I date women (woah there!) ermmm… the short hair, the hairy armpits… the list goes on (but not forever!)
-
What queer/ friendly female recording artists do you listen to? eh, I can’t seem to lose my attatchment to sleater kinney and the occasional bikini kill song. I listen to emo and techno - but it seems like there’s lots of gay boys and no gals in that mix so…
-
Any thoughts on the butch-femme thing? Je ne suis pas butch ni femme. And I don’t like it when people call me “baby dyke” or confused because they can’t place me in their binary world. I have absolutely no problem with other people doin’ the butch-femme thing - I just don’t want to be one or the other!
-
Were you a repressed Catholic schoolgirl?
Not by a long shot, honey. -
What do you feel are three very important queer woman issues? unity in the community! (huh? what community?) recruitment (pshaw, ya know I’m kiddin’ - sort of) and thinking about race and class in a meaningful way (not queer theory…)
-
How good is your gaydar? I don’t believe in gaydar - it’s just how well you know your stereotypes. So yeah, mine’s bad…
-
How “incestuous” is your dating scene? pretty bad (although I’ve seen worse…)
-
Describe your dating patterns. (U-Haul, serial monogamy, whatever.) serial monogamy - but I’m open to changing that…
-
Did you/do you date men? it’s happened. I doubt it’ll happen again anytime soon. It does not work very well for me - the power dynamic is skewed to say the least - and I can’t handle that…
-
Any thoughts on good and bad representations of queer woman in popular culture? not really ( I wish there was an XY for women though…)
-
coming out story… I went hiking with my mom and when we were finally at the top of the mountain we sat in this little wooden shack and I was crying and I told her “I"m gay” sob sniffle sob and she said “Are you upset about that?” And I felt kinda stupid, cause I was more upset about my queerness than she was - but that’s why my mom’s so cool!