Sofa King: Dude. I love you. In a completely platonic way, but duude.
Sarah: anyone who says you aren’t beautiful has something intrinsically wrong inside. Or they aren’t attracted to girls. Now, as for whether or not you’re perfect . . . nobody is. But some of us fit others in such a way that the match created therein is perfect. And fuckit, there’s a line of guys here at the SDMB, some of whom quite possibly wish they were younger, who want you. Some of us purely for your body:D
Sara,
He may be scared right now. He may think you are the only thing he can be sure of in his life. He lost girlfriends. His parents are divorcing. He may think love is a lie. He's afraid to go further with you or he may lose you, hus rock. He's rebounding badly.
Or maybe he doesn't love you. We don't always fall in love with those we should, and sometimes we fall for those we shouldn't. You've probably had guys fall for you and never had the guts to say so.
Keep your job for now if you can. Let things settle.
And Punha and Tripler are right about you. You're cute. I noticed that at the NYC dopefest right away.Nacho, I am so sorry for your pain. 
But try to remember if you risk nothing, you gain nothing! You were so brave to do this!!! Be proud of yourself!
I was in love with a dear friend once, it went on for months, us together all the time, I adored him. He dated other girls, I slept around… his parents transferred to the other side of the country, right after my graduation. I gave his brother a note telling him how I felt, and little brother gave him the note on the plane. Scott cried. He loved me too, but neither one of us wanted to risk the friendship by putting ourselves ‘out there’. I still have his letters, and while I havent cried over the loss of a long time, my BIGGEST regret is the cowardice that robbed us of time together, loving each other.
Sara, you did the best thing you could, I am so proud of you!
Good for you! You should never rebuild yourself to please someone else. If he doesn’t recognise your worth because of the above reasons, you don’t want him. But have faith that there is someone out there for you, because there are men that don’t give a damn about that superficial stuff and only care about what’s on the inside.
How can I be so sure? I’m living proof. Your above paragraph could describe me and it I’m still amazed sometimes by the love of this man. My point is, if it can happen for me after 31 years, it will happen for you. It will happen when you aren’t looking, when you aren’t expecting it. And it will come upon you unawares until one day you realise you’re in love with the most wonderful man and guess what? He loves you too, just as much.
Just stay true to yourself and listen to your heart, things will work out the way they are meant to be.
{{{N4S}}}
Sarah, I’ve only read the OP and barely skimmed the replies but I caught a glimpse or two that suggests what I’m about to say may have already been brought up.
Nevertheless, I want to congratulate you on your actions. How many people have the courage to stand up for what they feel? So very many people find it easier to hint and play games, skirting around the issues until they’re sure. No, what you did was wonderful, irresepective of the outcome. You were honest. You gave flight to your feelings. The way it should be.
Sadly, it may not have worked (tho we may both be jumping to conclusions here - he may be examining his own feelings - us males all too often aren’t fully in touch with the deeper feelings) but regardless I say hurrah to you! You loved. You had the wonderful feeling and you, unlike so many others, expressed it and gave yourself every opportunity.
And at the end of the day that makes you a winner whether he sees sense or not.
“It’s much better to risk and roll the dice than to stand on the sidelines wishing you had the courage to play.”
{{{N4S}}}
Sara:
So, d’ya still need advice? If so, then here’s my two cents-
“Listen to Sofa King, 'cause he’s damned smart.”
Other than that?
*Lancaster does, indeed, suck. Next time, get lost in Columbia, Maryland. It’s closer, it’s easier to get lost in, and you can make fun of all the pathetic yuppies looking for the Trader Vic’s.
*“If he’s too stupid to realize that what he needs is sitting on the other end of the phone, a ten-minute car drive or an e-mail away, then it really is him. I’ve given him the very best of what I have - I’ve been the best friend I could possibly be to him.” There you go. That’s the truth of the matter right there.
*“I still would like for him to love me, though.” Yeah. I understand. It would be nice. But- and I know I’m going to sound like a stupid geezer for this, the kind of person I hated for his advice when my heart was broken- but there are plenty of fish in the sea. You’ve loved, lived, learned, and grown. If he doesn’t yet have the sense, or courage, to love and live and grow with you as well… best to move on.
Story time. I was, at one point in my life, head over heels in love with a girl I knew. She’d come down to the DC area every once in a while to see her boyfriend; we get together and chat at those times, and have long, late phone conversations when she was back in Boston. We kvetch, we conspire, we pull each other up, the works. She and her boyfriend- they fight, they squabble, they codepend. Eventually, they break up. I sail on the top of the clouds- until she lets me know that she’s dating someone else. From up in Boston. So she won’t be coming down much any more.
At that point, I was heartbroken and devestated. At this point, I’m seeing a woman whom I care for even more deeply, and who returns the feelings. The pain and heartache I felt is a memory, and not even one of those memories that grabs me in the middle of the night and won’t let loose. It’s just there for me to pick up, shrug my shoulders, and let it drop.
As for how to get from that point to this point- there’s the rub. I guess it’s just been time and being willing to pick up and move on. Hopefully, knowing that time does heal wounds and that better things do come along- that might help. If not, I apologize for wasting your time.
If you need someone to talk to or vent at, feel free to drop me a line. Or just find me: I’ll be wandering through Columbia, looking for the Trader Vic’s.
John
{{{Sara}}}
I’ve been through something like this too, and it made my heart hurt to read your experience. I can’t add much to what’s already been said, so just add me to the list of people sending all their good vibes your way. I know you’re strong, and you’ll come out of all this an even more courageous, thoughtful person.
Where this this from? It’s beautiful.
Sara, I’d like to second everyone who gave you props for putting your feelings on the table and rolling the dice. Whatever comes of this, you will thank yourself forever for at least having had the courage to do that. When you’ve got a chance for something wonderful, no matter how slim, the only real sin is not to try for it. You’ve given it your best shot. You rock.
As one of the male Dopers who’s met you in person, let me add to the chorus of those who’ve pointed out that you’re just as cool in person as you are on the boards, and quite good-looking to boot.
Sofa King’s probably right about his reaction to all this. We guys are used to being in a certain role; we aren’t always sure how to react when it’s the woman who puts her cards on the table.
My one piece of advice is: switch jobs. No, really. It has nothing to do with standing your ground or running away; it’s got everything to do with your feelings for him being a bit more intense than is compatible with the workplace. Even if he decides he’s in love with you too, you may have some ups and downs ahead yet; it’s easier when you can leave your job out of all that. And of course, if he turns you down, going to work every day will be like pouring lemon juice into an open wound if you stay at IKEA.
So, my two cents: give your two weeks’ notice, and take the job at the cool downtown store. Then the chips can fall where they may without turning work into an emotional minefield.
It’s from ME and it’s copyright Ross McGovern 2001. I own it and all the subsidiary rights. Card poetry, posters, t-shirts and belly-tattoos must all go through my agent.
… sorry. It’s just something I wrote ages ago about new beginnings. Definitely applies to Sara. The city has streets paved with gold, though… know where I’m talking about now?
“I still would like for him to love me, though…
…Right now I just feel so numb.”
N4S, there are men out there and then there are men. Some you love because they are the right ones for you, some because they aren’t. Shortly you will know if your guy is one of the former or the latter. It can fall both ways off this watershed…
If the former, well, all will be good. Your posts tell a different tale, however, and in that case my advice is to love him but leave him.
I have a galpal who says she draws a thick black line between her and her past, and anything behind that line she doesn’t bother herself with. Having tried the method myself, I will say it works. Just be aware that in things as strong as love or grief, you will probably start out with a dry erase pen when you draw your line. It will be easy, at first, to smudge your line by brushing up against it, on purpose AND on accident, in your daily life of thinking and remembering. You will want to keep a marker handy to re-draw that line over and over again until the ink finally is ingrained. It will take perserverance and determination. And it will, to quote one of the wrong ones that I still love myself, suck. But it will work. Day by day, re-draw by re-draw. It will work out ok.
Send me an email, if you like. I may not be too far away from you, locale-wise.
–LadyE, who found the right one, married him, lost him because he stayed so close to her she couldn’t see him anymore, and now is finding him again.
Sara,
I hate to just “me-too” everyone else’s kind sentiments, but I did want to add that I was in a situation kinda sorta like yours way back in the day. The difference was that I was involved with someone at work, and when we broke up, the job kind of stunk. So what I had is sort of what you have - an uncomfortable situation. So what did I do? I got a new job. I didn’t feel like I was running from my problems or that I was the only cause of the problems. I just felt that the situation was uncomfortable, and that I could do better. So I did.
And so shall you.
HEY! I live in Columbia, and I’m not a pathetic yuppie!!! glares at John
However, if you got lost in Columbia, we could go out drinking. Wait. I don’t think it’s POSSIBLE to get lost in Columbia…
(Not to hijack this thread into “Wonders of Columbia, Maryland”, but just to restore my and Falcon’s honor:)
I never said that everyone who lived in Columbia was a pathetic yuppie. I only meant to imply that Columbia has more than its fair share of pathetic yuppies.
As for getting lost in Columbia- I’ve done it countless times. The roads are like countless intersecting circles; go straight, and you end up back where you were (which is no good if you don’t remember how you got there in the first place), take a turn and maybe you’ll end up near some important street, or maybe you’ll end up back where you started, or maybe you’ll end up in a nice wooded area that probably should be a park, but you weren’t aware that this area of Maryland had ficus trees. Unlike getting lost in Batlimore or Washington, though, the most dangerous person you’ll run into is someone not paying attention to where they’re jogging.
It’s confusing, annoying, and yet somehow sterile and safe.
Anyways. I’ll get out of the way of everyone else who wants to comfort Sara…
John, see this thread regarding my very recent experiences getting lost in the District. Luckily enough, I ran into almost no one… 
And to keep with the OP… N4S, if you ever need to talk and no one else is around, feel free to e-mail me. (I say that because it looks like there’s no shortage of nice folks willing to help you out, not because I want you to wait until no one else is around!)
dan
Yes, it is. I’ve done it at least twice. Once going to your place, once going from your place.
Oh, honey, oh dear, you are gonna hurt for a while. Having been there, and having nursed friends thru similar experiences, let me give you what little I have learned.
2)We women who get tangeled up in this situation are, unfortunantly, just allowing these guys to have thier cake and eat it too. The competition for the super elegant girly-girls is fierce (after all they are only 10% of the population or so). The chances of finding one that is your soul mate, shares you interests, etc., are low (they do exisit, of course, nothing wrong with girly-girls per se–it is just that if only 10% of the whole population is “potenetial soulmate” and 10% is “girly-girl”, well then only 1% is both). What we do is allow thes guys to have both the “soul mate” relationship with us and the sexual relationship with someone else. They have all thier needs met, and who cares if they are getting their needs met thru 2 different avenues? For instance, the person who says: “I wish I could talk to my girlfriend the way we can talk” is only able to stay in the relationship with little miss inane conversationalist because he has you to talk to–if he didn’t, he would get discontented and leave Miss Inanity alot sooner.
I only bring this up because you said this guy’s 2 girlfriends fit a “type” and that that “type” was not yours. It dosen’t mean that you “aren’t good enough”–it just means that he has his priorities all screwy and you can’t change that.
It also helps if you allow yourself to be open to the possibility that you were wrong about the connection you shared. I have seen this over and over agian–when one believes, deeply, that there is a mutual connection between one and someone else, discovering that that 'mutual" connection wasn’t really shared hurts. It makes you feel stupid and nieve and like you can never trust yourself again. So many people just to refuse to admit they could have been mistaken, that their “must be something else going on” becasue “that had to be real, that night”. ** If ** this is what hapened to you (I don’t know your particular situation) don’t feel stupid, don’t feel like you can’t trust yourself. Everyone, male and female, does this at some point and you learn alot from it and the next time you are a little more careful and a little less impetous and things go much better. Because those deep mutual connections can be real and will be real someday.
Lastly, (this is longer than I meant it to be), someday you will be so happy that this didn’t work out. You will be curled up with Mr. Nacho4Sara and the early morning sunlight will be coming thru the blinds and the stereo will be quietly playing music the two of you like and everyone else hates and you will think about how much you love the person you have grown into and realize that that would never have happened had “James” taken you up on your offer.
What I wanted to say has been covered, so just {{{{{Sara}}}}}
Sua
You know where to find me, hon. I’m not in the same boat, but I think I’m in a similar ocean.
{{{Sara}}} I, too, have been there. I fell for a guy who had poured his heart out to me about his unrequited crushies for a woman he knew was unavailable to him. I wasn’t blind to his faults, I could see them, but thought the things I loved about him were more important. We seemed so right for each other, both devote Catholics, both smart, from similar family backgrounds. I knew he drank, that he couldn’t seem to stick with anything (he dropped out of seminary twice and left two Master’s programs), but I thought I could deal with that. So I told him that he had to be honest with her, as I was being with him, even though it would be the hardest thing he’d done, just as this was hard for me. And that I hoped, whatever the outcome was for all of us, that he and I would stil be friends. He got over her. And fell for someone else, another someone as unlike me as is possible. And I realized that whatever he was looking for, I wasn’t it. And, looking back, I think it’s for the best, because I truly wasn’t what he wanted, and those things I thought I could overlook seem pretty big to me now that my mind is clear. So we are still friends, and when we get together, he seems to spend more time with me than with his wife. And that’s okay because I still have my friend.
StG
Four things.
First, an agreement. Zenster’s recommendation on the previous page, to take this time to create, is an excellent suggestion. Some of my best artistic work (writing, composing, whatever) has been done in the throes of emotional agony. You may feel like you want to lie in bed with the covers up over your head, but please, please, don’t do this. Get a notebook or ten and fill them up. It’ll be hard at first. Hell, it might be hard for months. But you’ll thank yourself later.
As an example, at a low point in my life, I wrote a song of which I’m very proud. It wasn’t easy to write, not at all. But I’m glad I did, because it’s one of the best things I’ve ever done. It definitely speaks to exactly this situation (keep reading). If you think it would help, I’d be happy to email the lyrics to you.
Second, another agreement. Manda JO, above, is right on the money about how certain men are romantically attracted only to girly-girls, and are able to easily make friends with other women because they don’t see any possibility of a confusing entanglement. I wouldn’t want to the leap to the conclusion that that’s what’s going on here, considering all I have to go by are words on a computer screen, but it is something to think about.
Third, a personal anecdote. I fell in love with a very good friend in college. She was perfect in my eyes. I didn’t just want to fuck her; I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. I kept it hidden through two long-term relationships with other girls, who were placeholders until I could win my true love. I watched her tumble out of unsuccessful relationships, I was there to support her, I was the best friend I could be. Even after a breakup, as she was looking around for new prospects, she never saw me, and it was torture.
But then, lo and behold, suddenly she did see me. It was like the sun had come out after the longest stretch of rain in history. I was overjoyed. We connected, tentatively. She saw me in a new way. And we got together.
And it was a really, really bad idea.
She knew immediately she thought it was wrong for us to be together; I can tell in retrospect, but at the time, of course, I was blind. Within weeks, she was cheating on me and lying about it because she didn’t want to hurt my feelings. Naturally, I found out, and the breakthrough followed by the deception was one of the most hideously scarring experiences I’ve ever had to endure.
It felt like it would never end. I considered suicide. I swung back and forth between despair and rage. Every minute of every day was an eternity. I basically put my head down and coasted; I ate poorly, I watched too much television, I didn’t socialize with anybody. And as awful as all of this was, I also wrote the song I mentioned up at the beginning.
Eventually, I snapped myself out of it, but it took a long time. (See Zenster’s “learning to love yourself” thread for an indication of what was necessary.)
Fast-forward many years. I run into this friend again, after a long time apart. We’re tentative together. She has married the man she cheated on me with. I’m seriously dating as well. Things are okay. We talk. She knows she hurt me, badly. She feels terrible. I feel bad also, because I had gotten over it a while back, and I really should have called her; back when we were just friends, we were really good together. In many ways, I feel like I need to apologize for messing things up by falling in love with her. She admonishes me; emotions are unpredictable and hard to control, and she doesn’t blame me at all. We forgive each other.
Now, not only are we good friends, but our spouses are friends as well. We’re a friendly foursome with some weird, painful history, but we’ve all grown up and moved past it. As horrible as the experience was, there’s something deeply satisfying about being able to look back on it from the other side and to realize that I’m a better person because of it, and our friendship is likewise stronger.
Hang in there. It feels like it’ll last forever. It won’t. It feels like it will, though, and it’s easy to fall into that trap. Just hang in there.
And fourth and finally, another confession.
I’m happily married. My wife is everything to me. I can’t imagine being apart from her, or trying to live my life without her. After a long day at work, when I come home and she’s gotten there before me, and I see her smile and we kiss, I feel like I’m the luckiest goddamn man in the world.
But I’m also vaguely cynical and warped, and occasionally, when she’s running late or I don’t know where she is, I start to worry about what happened to her. I imagine the worst. I worry about her dying suddenly, in a wreck or fire or something. It’s almost a paralyzing fear, because I don’t want to be left alone. My brain and imagination race ahead: I can’t imagine life without her that isn’t a black pit of loneliness and despair.
Sometimes, when I think about this, I think about whether it would be possible to move on. It takes strength of character to continue life after a tragedy of that magnitude. I don’t know if I’m up to it. I don’t know how I would even begin to deal with the world again. I know that if the unspeakable were to happen, and I were faced with the prospect of rebuilding my life on my own, I would have serious doubts about how long it would be before I was able to take even that first step.
What I do know is this: I hope I would meet someone like you.
That isn’t a flirt. That isn’t an overture. That isn’t a creepy sentiment from somebody who’s in an unhappy marriage and wants to “trade up.” I’m as happy as could be. But if I were suddenly hit by a terrible tragedy, if I were stranded alone by fate, I hope I would be lucky enough to meet someone like you.
We’ve never met, never spoken. My entire experience of you comes from the words you write, and the words that others write about you, that I read on my screen. But even with that limited interaction, your personality comes through like a lighthouse: your humor, your curiosity, your intelligence, your strength. The qualities that caused me to fall in love with my wife, the way she illuminates my world and gives me reason for being – I can see many of those qualities in you as well. And what’s more, the outpouring of sympathy and encouragement from so many other people here means I’m far from alone in this. You have made a tremendous impression on a lot of people. They see you as I do: You’re smart, you’re warm, you’re funny, you care – and you’re going through a horrible, painful time with which too many of us, obviously, can closely empathize.
The lesson in this is simple: His failure to reciprocate your love has nothing to do with anything you’ve done or who you are. It’s him. It’s timing. It’s bad luck. Who knows? You’re a wonderful person, and your time will come.
Keep your chin up. That’s all anybody can do at a time like this. Oh, and don’t forget to lean on your friends. That’s what they’re there for.