Dixit, for the time being.
I can’t even being to tell you how insulted I am by some of the comments made in this thread. And hurt.
MSK
douglips
SarumanRex
PRISM02
I feel sorry for each and every one of you who truly believe these things. How sad and unfortunate that you are so shallow and judgemental of people based only on their looks. I can think of a million things to counter every one of these ridiculous claims, but the truth is, it would make me feel like I’m defending myself, and I have no interest in doing that.
I know who I am on the inside. If a man is so disinclined to get to know me because he stereotypes me as shallow, rude, selfish or cold based only on how I look, then that’s a man I have no interest in getting to know either.
For the record, here’s me (PRISM, I’m 39). And the most recent love of my life looked like a cross between Cliff Claven of Cheers and Jim Nabors. Go figure, huh? Thank goodness at least some people in the world can see past the surface and into a person’s soul.
Oh, and lindsay, I’d like to extend my personal thanks for being the kind of woman who is precisely the reason that men have the feelings they do about attractive women. I owe you a debt of gratitude for making it so easy on all the rest of us who would just as soon cut off our left arm than take advantage of our looks in the ways you describe.
And in case it goes over your head, since it’s not likely you’ve managed to develop any brain cells, considering that you’ve made it through life getting jobs and men merely by flashing your breasts, the above is dripping with sarcasm.
And this…
…is enough to tell me all I ever need to know about you.
Good luck in life. You’re going to need it.
Shayna I don’t understand what you are upset about? Pardon me if I seem thick in the head. According to your picture, you are not a ‘ravishing beauty’ (movie star type) but you are pretty. Red head to boot! (A plus there.) You are not ugly, plain, nor fat.
I’m older than you and I absolutely do not look like anything from the movies.
I was raised being told that ‘inner beauty’ made up for physical flaws but as I grew older, I discovered that ugly is ugly. Period. I’m sorry, but I’m part of the majority in that opinion and I feel that it has to do with nature. I’ve met many a nice woman who had many of the attributes I would seek in a life partner but who was just not physically attractive to me at all.
I could not picture myself waking up day after day next to that person who was either very fat, too skinny, too plain or just too homely. I have dated women I considered very pretty and years after we broke up, met them again and seeing the way they had changed physically, was glad we had broken up. One got so obscenely fat that I walked past her several times with only a vague recognition before it dawned on me who she was. The attraction I had for her once petite self years ago was gone when I saw what she had become. The very weight of the fat she had put on even changed her face – recessing her eyes and pulling her lips down into a scowl. Another gained about 50 pounds and while I recognized her, I found her no longer physically alluring.
Look, these days if you have problems with the way you look, you can do something about it. I started wearing hair dye because my hair had turned a pissy gray-black-brown hue. I changed the style of my glasses to a younger yet mature style. I adjust my weight. (Men develop this ‘pot’ in middle age that almost nothing except surgery can remove.) I had rotten teeth fixed and I’ve begun to get very annoyed with my decreasing hair line and have started to consider hair transplants.
Boob problems? Consider implants. Don’t like your hair style - experiment. (Older women start to develop the ‘high forehead’ look, kind of like men do. Add in bangs.) Your picture doesn’t tell me much about you except for your face. Want to change your body style a touch? Go to a woman’s gym.
Now I’ve had girl friends who ranged from almost no boobs to big boobs. The things which broke us up were always personality traits. One girl had great legs, another had smallish breasts but a great ass and cute feet, one had really big boobs but a flat ass and flat feet. All had cute faces. None were ‘ravishing beauties’. I even dated a red head who had a magnificent body, a good personality but her face had a nose on it that looked like a mans. We broke up because she got interested on someone else.
Now, a person’s individual likes and dislike cannot be changed like flipping a switch. These are theirs. They might not seem right to others, but that is how it is.
Oh my gawd! PRISM, you amaze me by your ability to completely miss a point. I have absolutely nothing to complain about regarding my looks. I am considered, by societal standards, to be an attractive woman. I spent many years modeling and being paid big bucks to do it. That particular photo doesn’t flatter my figure, but I happen to be quite satisfied with my breasts at a modest 32C in size.
The point was that all of the statements I quoted regarding attractive women not developing personalities, being shallow, rude and cold are offensive, insulting, hurtful to those of us who are none of those things, and just plain wrong. If you are so inclined to believe that crap then you are a sorry, sorry individual and not someone I would ever choose as a friend, or even want to know.
Wow, I guess I’m the resident freak here.
I mean, I’m not attracted to my current beloved because he is gorgeous. Or because he is rich. He is neither of these things. Well, I do think he is kinda cute. But he’s got a sense of humor, he treats me well, we read the same books, have the same hobbies, enjoy the same movies.
My BF is not attracted to me cuz I’m some ravishing beauty. I’m not. I never have been, I probably never will be. I’m not even cute, or what you people would consider attractive.
I think all of you idiots need to stop the stereotypes, and FAST. I can’t believe you people are “adults”…you act like you are still in the fifth grade. “I don’t like Suzy cuz she’s fat!” “I don’t like Heather cuz she’s ugly”. Did you try to get to know these people? Of course not! Why should you take the time to get to know, like, and respect people based on their minds and hearts.
Well, I guess I should make up my own generalizations. Men only think with their dicks, and women don’t think at all. I haven’t seen anybody (except Shayna) prove otherwise.
I am responsible for how men react to women? How?
My belief is that when a man looks for a mate, the first thing he is looking for is a hot body. It doesn’t matter what her IQ is or her beliefs on how best to solve world hunger or anything.
Do you think for a minute that when a guy sees a babe he thinks how much he would like to discuss Shakespeare with her?
No, he is thinking how long will it take to get her clothes off.
Tom says men don’t hear a word you are saying till they have had you.
You will never read anywhere that I said I am in any way beautiful physically.
Being a knockout would be a tremendous asset. I also like women who look at themselves in the mirror and go MEOW.
All the first OP said was he finds it difficult to get interested in women without the required good looks.
He is honest.
Ladies are always saying they want men to be honest.
Well, if women are going to want honesty, they have to be ready to hear the remarks.
My boss, who was a knockout, did not hire a girl for a job because the gal was also a looker. Great body, too. She told me to never hire anyone prettier than you are.
Considering how some women like to cut down other women who are born with good looks, it makes me cringe to be around them. It also makes me laugh, because no matter how much one woman will say another got by on her looks, I think the woman would just love to be the one so hot looking all she has to do is show up and a man offers her his ATM card.
Admit it, beauty is pleasing to the eye.
Men are willing to pay to be seen with a good looking woman.
Are you aware that no man wants to wake up with Coyote Arm?
This is biology, that’s all.
I think that having similar hobbies and interests, as you and your boyfriend do, is probably one of the most important things in a relationship. I’ve had many friends who started dating a guy because they thought he was cute and seemed nice, only to learn that they had absolutely nothing in common. Even if the guy really is nice, it’s not much of a relationship if you have nothing to talk about with each other and can’t tolerate each other’s tastes. Not that you have to share every like and dislike, but there needs to be something.
What most frequently attracts me to a person is not their looks but when I can tell that we have a lot in common. Not that being good-looking isn’t a nice bonus, but I will always choose a plain person who shares my interests over a better looking person who does not. I think the only time I’ve been at all put off by a potential partner’s appearance was with someone who was perfectly nice looking but who, at 21, could probably get away with paying the children’s price at the movies. It made me feel like a pedaphile. Even then I think I could have gotten over it had there not been other problems as well.
Of course looks aren’t everything. No one has said that they are.
However, I like a certain sort of guy, at least 6’2" and a few others. He has to be attractive, because having sex is a big part of my life, and if I don’t get excited by looking at him and wondering what it would be like to kiss those lips or something, there won’t be any relationship to develop.
I, personally, do not think that anything I said was offensive – except accidentally misunderstanding Shayna. I have my own tastes in the opposite sex and I like to think that I am far above the stereotypical male who is basically led by his penis and macho attitude.
I have many female friends (had. When I got sick, I had to pull away and keep to myself), who I loved discussing things with, helping out, going to visit and generally hang around but physically, they did not turn me on so there was no intimate relationship.
I have seen some of the pictures of women here and some I find attractive and others absolutely not. Then again, I have seen some of the pictures of the men and some I could understand why women would beat a path to their door and others I figured women would be stampeding away from.
The average woman I like has to meet my standards of beauty, plus intelligence and personality. This is so for all people. I’ve met pretty girls about as dumb as a stump and been turned off and pretty women as sharp as a razor but had the morals and attitude of a snake and been turned off. I know one very fat lady who when she trims down is absolutely lovely, but she prefers to tilt the scale at something like 250 and wonders why she never gets gorgeous men interested in her.
Men are visual.
There are books about that.
That’s why men love porn and titty bars and hookers.
Men are more excitable sexually.
A woman flashes a man and he’s liable to ask her for another look. A man flashes a woman and she’s liable to get pissed.
When younger, I heard all of that ‘it’s what’s inside that counts’ and had problems wondering why I naturally disagreed with it. I got smart. I took a psychology course in college and learned a lot and decided that such coiners of sweet phrases needed to be booted in the butt for the confusion they eventually caused people. I’m not handsome and as a kid I was less than handsome and I beat myself up wondering why some angelic looking girl would not see the ‘beauty that is me’ within. They were too busy going out with foot ball hunks, the local thugs, musclemen, and those guys who came out of the womb needing a shave.
The few girls I attracted were kind of like broomsticks with legs, coke bottle glasses and stringy hair or short, pasty faced, outweighed the foot ball coach and often had mouths like sailors on leave. Not much sexual attraction there. Sure, I suppose they were nice girls. I know many of them were, but they turned me off!
Nature dictated this. I had a heck of a time realizing that it was not me.
When I grew older, more mature I did what things I could to make me more appealing to the opposite sex. Like I listen very well and never, ever cast my eyes over the left shoulder and let them unfocus! I pay attention! I keep me clean. I compliment her. I wait on her. I appreciate little things she does. If and when sex happens, I pay attention to her needs as well as my own. I make note of little things she does - like painting her toe nails, fluffing up her hair, adding eyeliner before seeing me, wearing a delightful perfume or curling her legs up under her as she sits.
Still, I respond to the basic attitude built into me. I have been through many breakups and most of them have been devastating. Some were actually a relief. If a girl treats me nice, so do I treat her. Still, I am attracted first by looks – even if just the face. Then by personality and body. That is, if I am looking for a prolonged relationship. If just for fun and sex and company, well, then the things change to body and face first and I make allowances for the personality.
This is nature. It is not appalling.
Knock yourself out! Just make sure you don’t procreate, OK? Your comments in this thread are too dumb to adress individually. So I won’t. I couldn’t make you look any more stupid than you already made yourself look.
Many thanks PRISM-02, you said what I was trying to say, only you said it much more clearly and concisely than I.
Gosh, Coldfire, are we in the PIT?
No, we’re not, Prism. That’s why I left out the REALLY dirty words :rolleyes:
No, Lindsay, but you are responsible for the ridiculous presentation of your asinine and juvenile view of how men and women interact. I’m sure that you constantly observe men and women behaving in the way you have described, and I’m sure you have spent a great deal of time developing justification for the disgusting behavior that you witness. This is because you have bought into that corner of society. Not all of us have been so foolish.
This quote, Lindsay, really illustrates how hopeless and depressing your life must be. I’m truly sorry that you have allowed yourself to be convinced of these types of things. I really thought that society was progressing and people were beginning to realize that there is not a dominant gender or race to which all others must suck up. My hope was that people like you were dying out of society, being left behind by the process of evolution, but, behold, here you are. How sad.
Now lets address some of this idiocy, Lindsay. Just let me know if I’m moving to fast for you. I am attractive. I posses considerable material wealth. In your fucked up little world, I should, because of my biology, have some stupid, bottle blonde bimbo with fake tits hanging on my arm. According to you, such women would be physically incapable of resisting the amazing combination of money and looks that is Tymp. Yet, this is not the case. You see, little girl, I don’t tend to even notice women who do not realize that they are not dependent upon me. People who are confident in the knowledge that they are capable of anything, regardless of how any one views them, are attractive. Weak minded people, incapable of seeing past physicality, who believe that biology has something to do with money and silicone, are truly ugly and wouldn’t even get so much as a grudge fuck from me.
What does biology of any sort have to do with such perks? What the hell are you babbling about!? If a man were looking for a woman well suited biologically to bear and raise his children, he would seek a woman with a thicker frame, wider hips and more meat on her body than is generally considered attractive in our society. When men go out in search of big tits and a tight ass, it has nothing to do with biology. It has everything to do with conditioned acceptance of society’s determination of what is good. Please don’t embarrass yourself by stating that such complex stimulus/response systems can be reduced to simple “biology”. Such assertions are laughable at best and pitiful at worst.
To quote a noteworthy folk singer, “For the girl with the hourglass figure, time runs out very fast.” You’re right, Lindsay. Time is catching up with you and the competition is on its way. You would be well served to develop an admirable personality or some other positive quality that will give your life some meaning after your superficial charms fail you. Good luck.
MagicalSilverKey,
To address the purpose of this thread, I’d like to point out that we are talking about personal ads here. Not everyone uses such devices and the users of such do not represent a good cross section of our society. It may well be that the majority of the attractive people that you seek also possess a certain confidence afforded them by the comfort that they feel with regards to their appearance. Such people are probably out meeting people face to face in pubs and clubs rather than posting or searching through personal ads. Smart, attractive people abound. I have many friends and enemies who fit that description and I have heard tell of many more.
Tymp, you’re my new favourite poster. Excellent post!
Hey ‘lindsay/serlin’, you are SO off the island!!!
PRISM
You’re kidding, right? You don’t see how this is offensive?
I’m speechless.
Note to mods: Why is this thread still in Great Debates? What, exactly, are we debating here? Can this thread please be moved to the 'Pit where some of us can have an opportunity to really speak our minds on this subject? Thank you for your consideration.
MagicalSilverKey, you opened a real can o’ worms with this one I see. Not your fault; the OP was reasonable and tactfully presented. Some of the rest of the posts…
I am in full agreement that attraction is a necessary component in a romantic relationship. If there isn’t a certain ‘spark’ then things end up platonic. That being said, ‘attractiveness’ is very individual and mutable.
Years ago I worked in a hardware store. A new cashier was hired. She was too skinny, had braces, and was rather plain looking. All in all, I had no attraction to her whatsoever. Three months later, I had a HUGE crush on her, and thought she was absolutely beautiful. I had gotten to know her, and the more I liked her, the prettier she was. Her appearance didn’t change at all, but my appreciation of it did. Likewise, I can think of two women I know that, while being very pretty by most anyone’s definition, are such despicable bitches that I feel nothing but revulsion.
There is support for what Lindsay says, on the barest and most superficial level, if all other things are equal. Sure, people are attracted to attractive people. Saying such a thing is ridiculously self-evident. The difference that most people seem to get, is that this is not the whole story, or even the most important chapter. If I am at a supermarket, and there are two open checkout lanes, I will head toward the one where the pretty girl is. Hey, I’m an average hetero guy, and I like looking at pretty girls. Likewise, if I walk into a restaurant, I am far more likely to notice a Heather Locklear than I am a Shelly Duvall. It’s only natural.
Having said that, it’s an enormous leap to go from “people like attractive people” to “the man gets the prettiest woman he can afford.” Statements like, “There is absolutely nothing wrong with being superfical,” are enough to boggle the mind. Sounds like a quote from that great feminist icon, Barbie. :rolleyes: If the world really did run completely on sex, as the romance novels and soap operas would have us believe, then maybe these gross generalizations would have merit. The fact of the matter is, Lindsay, that even we piggish oversexed men look for something more than a hot body in a lover. For a shallow one-night stand, maybe not. But for a SO? You betcha.
Lindsay, I’d just love to go through this point by point with you . . . but I don’t have that kind of time.
<My belief is that when a man looks for a mate, the first thing he is looking for is a hot body. It doesn’t matter what her IQ is or her beliefs on how best to solve world hunger or anything.>
Here I am officially stating my belief that A. you are not correct in this assertion and that B. When I look for a mate I’m not looking for someone with the body of a Greek goddess. I’ve met people who are physically attractive but they disgust me because they don’t know anything. I have several friends both online and off who aren’t very physically appealing but have beautiful personalities. And sometimes I get lucky and find both in the same person.
<Do you think for a minute that when a guy sees a babe he thinks how much he would like to discuss Shakespeare with her?>
Yes. I do. Some of the best conversations I’ve had with women I’ve known were on the philosophy and theory of existence. While that isn’t technically the answer to your question, I don’t look at someone and judge how good of a lay they’d be.
<No, he is thinking how long will it take to get her clothes off.>
Well, thank you for making a generalization about every single man on Earth. It’s nice to be told what I think. Now I can die happy.
<Tom says men don’t hear a word you are saying till they have had you.>
Well, then I’ve been listening to men all my life. I’ve heard and responded to a great many women. It’s delightful to talk to a good number of them. Some of them find talking to me delightful as well.
<My boss, who was a knockout, did not hire a girl for a job because the gal was also a looker. Great body, too. She told me to never hire anyone prettier than you are.>
Not that many people would care, but that is discrimination based on appearance. And it’s going against something I believe you stated earlier about physically appealing women getting whatever they want. I would appreciate it if you would make up your mind about something and not see-saw.
<Admit it, beauty is pleasing to the eye.>
Among other things, beauty is. Knowing that I’m talking to someone who isn’t the most physically beautiful woman in the world, but has a delightful personality is much better than talking to a knockout with toast for a personality.
<Ever notice that if a pretty, skinny gal is waiting for a taxi alongside a homely person, the pretty gal will get the
first offer?>
If you were a taxi driver and you saw someone physically appealing, would you think they had more or less money than a homely person? Hoping not to insult anyone here, taxi drivers are supposed to be concerned with few things other than making money and driving fast. This society teaches us that beauty pays, sometimes literally.
<Do you think there is something wrong with admitting that looks matter?>
I think one of the problems a lot of us are having is that you’re saying looks matter the most and that having physical attraction and nothing else will get you farther than being intelligent.
<It is true. By the by, the only women who complain about being homely are the ones who don’t get the treatment given to the beauties.>
Not true. I’ve known women who were models and quit because it was dreadfully boring. They also didn’t think they were much to look at. The most beautiful women I met were humble . . . they knew they were beautiful, but they didn’t act or think as if they deserved special treatment for someone thinking they looked better than most, or even some.
<Haven’t you seen those tests done with babies, they - young as they are - show a preference for the more attractive faces.>
I think you may be confusing attraction with contrast. Babies’ vision is not fully developed. They reach out for things that are clearly defined, and thus an “attractive” face, or one with lots of contrasts, is going to catch their attention more often than one that is “plain” or not full of contrast. Take a clas in developmental psychology and you should discover this if you pay attention.
<Why do you think Cindy Crawford gets paid to pose?>
Because there are people who feel she is attractive. Monica Lewinsky, who is not widely regarded as being attractive, got offered several hundred dollars to pose.
<It is because she is gorgeous.>
I disagree with you here. I don’t much like the way she looks, and I don’t think I’m alone here.
<There is absolutely nothing wrong with being superfical.>
I disagree with this statement so completely and fully that to try to express it any further would probably be a waste of time.
<Don’t feel that way, and I am not listening.>
So basically you’re saying that we should listen to your opinion, but we don’t get that courtesy back?
<Looks matter a great deal. Height matters too.>
To you they matter, obviously. To others, maybe not so much. By shutting yourself off from the views of others you make yourself out to be somewhat of an ignoramus.
<Taller men, the ones 6 feet and over, get paid more.>
To do what?
<What is so wrong with admitting that beauty matters, a lot? >
The fact that you seem to be intimating that it matters more than anything else.
<This is nothing to get angry about. It just is what it is.>
But it isn’t, which is why we are angry.
Apologies if I’ve unintentionally offended anyone. I am simply stating A. what I have found to be the truth, or B. my opinion.
Shayna,
Although I have posted some inflammatory remarks in this thread, I do not want to see this devolve into a full-blown flame fest. There is still a chance that those who have posted concepts here that defy our sense of logic and civility will return with brilliant, unforeseen justification of their alarming stance on these issues. It’s not bloody likely, but it could happen.
By all means, though, bust open a thread in the Pit and let these peculiar members of our community know how you really feel.
Now, to further justify keeping this here . . .
SarumanRex said:
IMO, the more a person seeks positive attention from their peers, the uglier they get. I don’t believe that people in general actually try to make others like them. There are exceptions, but the attitude never lasts. Usually, people realize that it never works for anybody and they resign themselves to being comfortable and happy with the way they look, feel and act. Then they suddenly find themselves with all the dates and friends they could ever want. Why? Because confidence is attractive. Relaxed confidence attracts people of a similar mindset. Confidence often also results in a person achieving their optimal physical condition.
Also, I don’t think that “larger egos” are the result of being attractive. Rather, I think it’s the other way around. Powerful egos cause a person to exude a sense of joy and peace that overshadows even the finest and poorest of physical traits. People who posses this true beauty do not fend off the attentions of “undesirable” people. Only those who are insecure in their own social condition do such things. What they don’t understand is that, the more people you discriminate against, the less attractive you become. Such discrimination is a display of weakness that many people find distasteful. I’m sorry if you are frequently subjected to such people. I would suggest that ignoring them, rather than holding their behavior as normal and honorable, will eventually result in them seeing that their intentions are self-defeating.
