I forgot that I wanted to comment on this - your immediate concerns are her lack of independence from her family and her father’s disapproval, I agree with that, but I think you might be underestimating how big a hurdle it is for people from two different countries to live their lives together. We have any number of Dopers who have met and married people from another country, and from what they’ve posted, it’s anything but simple and easy. Not to discourage you or anything; just a heads-up.
Well said.
Yeah, finding work would most definitely be difficult. She’s a very quick thinker and has a very solid resume of experience, so if she can get some interviews, I’m sure she’d do well.
But find out what her fears/stumbling blocks are. As you recognize, she’s the one who really has to get the ball rolling on this, so you need to find out what it’s going to take and decide if it’s worth it to you.
Sounds right to me. I told that that we need to discuss it tonight so we’ll see what happens.
You should be wary of any young woman who is moving out of her parents home and into yours, without ever having, seeking or experiencing an independent existence.
It’s a big red flag.
She’s likely to one day kick you to the curb to seek it, or never desire it, remaining always a child to be cared for, effectively.
I can’t honestly say I expect her to be the coddled type. I have no doubt that her career choice was made with no knowledge or predictions about having to live at home for some unknown length of time. She enjoys animals and working with them. It’s unfortunate that enjoying your job comes at a price sometimes, especially for her, but what can you do…
The last sentence could come to fruition, you can never be sure. Sometimes people will never come out and say something for a host of different reasons. I trust her and have no qualms waiting to see where it goes. You aren’t living if you don’t take chances. You can be calculated all you want, but sometimes there is just no way of knowing without seeing it through.
She is adopted, so she has very little cultural heritage from Malta itself (besides from her parents, which is minimal as they have melded with Canadian laws/tradition/etc. fairly well). A Canada-to-US move would not be all that much of a culture shock to her, I’d wager. If you dropped me into Toronto with no prior knowledge of it being in another country, I would’ve been unable to determine a difference.
Unless you mean the legal procedures and such, which I’m sure can be quite taxing and time consuming. Nothing in life worth having is easy, I guess.
I appreciate the honesty.
This probably doesn’t need to be said, but be sure that when you discuss this with her you do it over the phone (or Skype), not IM. You really need to be able to read hear/see her tone of voice/body language/etc as best you can during this type of conversation.
Agreed! It was my intention, but I appreciate the tip.
It doesn’t sound like it’s really about finances. If she has a full time job, she can afford to live away from her parents. Even if she had to live with roommates, she can find a place to move out to, especially since you keep claiming that she doesn’t see “eye-to-eye” with her father. It sounds like what it boils down to is that her actual priorities aren’t in the same order as she presented to you.
I come from an immigrant family too, so I know that moving out and thus “rejecting cultural values” is tough. But, there did come a point where I just could not live with my parents anymore, and even if I had to have weeks where I decided between paying rent or buying food, I’d rather pay the rent and live off of pasta and cheap sauce than to live a “luxurious” life with endless stock in the fridge and the ability to crank up the AC in the heat of summer.
Your girlfriend has the capability to move out, financial or otherwise; it’s just that putting up with her father’s difference of opinions is a better bargain for her than moving out and being independent. Living with him isn’t such a nightmare that she’d risk a safe secure home just so she can come and go and have guests as she pleases.
Yeah, I suspect that it’s partially because she doesn’t want to leave that cozy, hospitable environment just yet.
That’s fine, but it needs to be said. I know she disagrees/fights with them on just about everything, but like you said: That is more appealing at this stage in her life than risking so much, I guess.
I don’t understand why you think this is so minor. You do realize, don’t you, that a Canadian can’t just decide to move to the U.S. because they feel like it? She’ll need a visa of some sort, which isn’t necessarily something you automatically get just by applying.
A friend of mine here in the US was engaged (now married) to a girl from Calgary. She was here on a work visa, which is how she was in the country when they met.
She went home to Calgary to visit her folks, just a month or two before the wedding, and couldn’t get back because of visa issues (I think she was in between jobs or smoething). She ended up stuck in Calgary and they had to postpone their wedding. She couldn’t get back to the US for well over a year, mired in all kinds of paperwork.
So yeah, not that easy.
Nor is it any small thing the other way, same issues, same red tape, same lengthy process. It can literally take years.
I think you need to look into both these things before you make any more decisions regarding either of your futures.
In addition, if you think a Canadian Vet Tech doesn’t make enough to live independently of their parents home you are woefully ill informed.
I’m glad a few people pointed this out. It is a *huge *deal. It’s not like American companies (including vets) are eager to sponsor foreigners they’ve never worked with before and who surely have competent equivalents in their field who are already US citizens. Unless the OP or the woman wants to go back to school for a bit (or work illegally), crossing the border for a great length of time is going to be a hurdle.
Not writing this to be judgmental, just to give some potential insight into her father:
If I were to tell my folks that I was moving to a different country (or state even) to live with someone I met on the internet and met twice, it would be received as being a pretty crazy thing to do. Maybe a step below joining a cult of some kind.
Now, of course, If I wanted to do it, I would do it anyway because my parents don’t run my life. But it sounds like her parents do run her life.
You may have to be the one to relax her father on the idea. Maybe during your next stay with her, spend some time with him and let him know that he isn’t losing his daughter to some stranger hundreds of miles away.
I don’t know that I’d call this a red flag but it’s at least a strong yellow. She fights with her parents, and therefore wants to be away from them, but doesn’t have the ambition to go out on her own. I know women who married to get out of their father’s house, and it rarely ends well. My ideal of a functional relationship is two people who are comfortable in their own skins and capable of moving through life on their own choosing to move through life together because they want to be with each other. Co-Dependency, especially in a situation fraught with friction and anger as your GF’s seems to be, is a major turn off for me. Your mileage may vary of course.
Enjoy,
Steven
I’ve been to Malta (just for a day) and the impression I got is a country far more religious and a bit more rooted in the mores of the past than either the US or Canada.
Take a look from his point of view. His baby girl has met some guy on the Internet who is probably a serial killer or worse. And probably not even Catholic. I can see why he doesn’t want her to visit you (sin will ensue!) but I don’t quite get why he doesn’t want to meet you - unless he is scared that this is somehow an endorsement.
One more question: has she ever lived away from home? It doesn’t sound as if she has ever gotten through the breaking away period which is one really good reason for living away from home when you are in college. But she is well past the age of emancipation. You said he won’t allow her to visit you - but how? Is he going to kick her out of the house? Or does he just say no and she accepts it?
You’ve got three choices.
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Continue the LDR. They can work out okay - my wife and I never lived closer than 600 miles from each other until we got married, and we’ve been married for almost 32 years. But the problem is that there is no end in sight. And LDR for a time until she moves or finishes school or something can work, but this one goes on until he sees reason or dies or she gets a backbone.
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Storm the castle. Go to visit her, and have her set up a situation, outside the house where he has to be polite, where he must meet you and discover you do not have fangs.
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Help her escape, the most extreme option. You’d need to understand the intricacies of immigration law, and it might result in a family split. As I suspect you might be aware, also still living at home, it is easy to fall into the habits of high school if you’ve never lived away. it sounds like that is where she is. She should have made this break years ago - or at least established boundaries around her life as an adult.
I’d go with option 2 myself, which is easier on her if harder on you. You might also learn a lot by observing their interaction.
There is of course the option 4 of just forgetting the whole thing, but we don’t have to go there for a while.
Thank you all for the replies.
I think the people jumping on my back about the legal setbacks were missing my point.
It is not minor in the way you’re thinking. It’s a huge thing to iron out and it’s not exactly something that can be accomplished easily. It’s minor when you compare it to the much deeper issue (or at least it’s deeper to me). I value your opinions on the matter but I was miffed at some of the replies.
Okay elninost0rm, in the OP, you said you wanted to know what steps she should be taking if she wants to move to be near you. You didn’t necessarily ask for our armchair psychoanalysis of your GF.
I will share some of my story with you for the sake of comparison and possibly you can glean some ideas about suggestions you could make to her if she really wants to make this happen.
I graduated from college in Ohio, where I’d lived all my life. During my sophomore year, I met my BFF, a guy (just friends, this was not a romantic friend). He had moved back to Florida, where he was from, in my junior year. Senior year, he talked me into moving to Florida after graduation. (
“If I’m going to be broke and living in a cardboard box under the freeway, I might as well be tan and warm!”)
I didn’t ask my parents. I didn’t seek their blessing, assistance, or support in any way. Their opinions were heard, but taken with a grain of salt (they both had misgivings, but I laid those to rest when I articulated a clear, well-thought-out plan). My parents didn’t let me move to Florida, alone, with $50 in my pocket, no job prospects and $10K in student loan debt. I *told *them what I was going to do, and then I just did it. They respected my decision because they realized I wasn’t expecting them to pick up the pieces for me if my plan to go south went south (heh). What I told them was, “Well the worst thing that could happen is I go bust and have to come back, find a roommate and get a job in Cleveland.” (There are many far worse fates than having to live in Cleveland, IMO.) Point being, I had a plan and a back up plan. I had an idea of how I would handle failure, which never happened.
I have since relocated, alone, twice, across state lines. All three times, I left everyone and everything I knew and struck out for another new adventure. Not everybody is wired to do such a thing; it can be pretty scary. I never even did it for a BF, not once. The first time, when I landed in Florida I knew where I would be living because I moved in with my friend, but I didn’t have a job lined up when I left. We’d worked out a lovely roommate arrangement where he didn’t charge me rent for the first month (until I found a job) and the first few months, he didn’t charge me quite half the rent. After I got on my feet, he jacked me up to exactly 50% of everything, rent, utilities, phone, etc.
Anyway, my friend introduced me to another friend who was a supervisor at a company that happened to be hiring for a position for which I was qualified. I had a job within 36 hours of moving to Florida. I was 22 when I did this the first time, with no parental support whatsoever. I did it again at 26 and again at 28.
You said something about maybe she’s afraid to take such a big risk. So help her to minimize the risk. You also said she has money saved up. She could probably afford the deposits to get her own apartment down the street from you – you get to be close, but she still gets to learn to be independent. If she cannot support herself completely on her own salary, then she gets a roommate. Surely you have female friends, and she will make friends at whatever new job she manages to score. Then you can date properly and see how it works out before you take the next step of moving in together. If I were her, my hesitation would be jacking up the progression of the relationship that fast. To me, that would be like dating for two weeks and then rushing off to get married. :: shudder ::
Aside from the obvious immigration/visa issues, she has to use her Google Fu and figure out a plan for herself. IMO, if she does not take the initiative to take the steps to make a plan and get the ball rolling, then, well… big red flag. If I were you, I would be asking what her plan is and then subsequently checking in with her to see what progress she’s made.
First, she should get on the INS web site and find out what she has to do to get a work visa. Another way for her to get a visa is to enroll in a US university. She could go the student loan route, maybe major in pre-vet or if there’s some sort of agricultural college in your area, find some other work-with-animals related program. Doesn’t mean she has to go to vet school or become a vet. But full-time enrollment in a university will get her a visa. (I have a Canadian friend who lives with her bf here. Every so often, she has to renew her student visa.)
Next thing is, she lines up a job. She probably can’t get the visa without a gig or full-time student status, so back to the interwebs. When I moved from SC back to Florida, I was on the internet every Sunday scanning classifieds and firing off resumes until I finally landed a job. It took me almost a year to get hired in from out-of-state. Vet techs are not exactly in shortage, so I don’t know how animal clinics might feel about sponsoring her visa. She might have to take just any crappy gig (server, bartender, barista, retail, whatever) just to have job enough to move, get a visa. Once she’s there with you, she can get back to working with animals. She can change jobs, of course.
So once she has a job and a visa, then the next step is living quarters. You could help her line up an apartment and possibly even a roommate, if the leap of going from LDR to live-in is a bit too much for her. It would be for me, but I am fiercely independent and the idea of going from happy-go-lucky free-and-single (but dating) to living-with-BF would be very intimidating to me.
I have had very bad experiences with LDRs, including a year-long relationship that ended about six months after he moved to my city to be with me. What I found about LDRs–and obviously YMMV–is that they give you a false sense of intimacy. I think you can’t really get to know someone until you spend a lot of face time together and really get to know one another’s lives. It’s one thing to visit, but there’s a lot of information you don’t have because you only have so much face time banked and you can only get so far with communication, trust, respect, and commitment via Skype.
I don’t mean to be discouraging, because there are a lot of data points that could indicate this could totally work out. I’m pulling for ya, but I have serious reservations about this girl’s ability to stand on her own two feet, make her own decisions, formulate a plan, and then execute the steps of her plan.
I was four years younger than she is now when I struck out on my own. I was already on my *second * solo cross-country move by the time I was her age. So I just really… don’t know about this.
Good luck to you both.
Thank you. That was an insightful story and I appreciate your reply.
I wasn’t looking for “armchair psychoanalysis,” just some feedback on what you all thought of the situation.
It was made plainly clear that the immigration would be an issue, and a big one at that. Maybe the tone was slightly condescending.
Whatever you do, give the relationship a time-limit, or at least set up expectations that really must be met before moving to whatever-the-next-step-is-at-the-time.
I know someone who spent 6 years in a similar relationship; he got on just fine with her family, they visited lots, but each had reasons for not being the one to move. Just as a friend on the outside, it was excruciating to watch.
Seriously consider making the move yourself if you want this to work, because if she hasn’t left home yet, it’s going to take something better than home to get her out. And you have no way of competing.