So, Did I Miss Out Big Time, Or Did I Just Dodge a Bullet?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
61

I don’t know if the guy would’ve been an abuser, and I didn’t mean to paint him that way. He never raised his voice during that last phone call. He didn’t even make me feel bad. I think his calling me childish and “calling the shots” was a little out there, because we had only talked three times since meeting. I think he probably wanted to start out as a romance rather than a companion thing, and was frustrated that I hadn’t called during the week, like I was eager to see him or something.

I don’t think during that first phone call that I presented a list of rules. I did say please don’t call during working hours, and that I wanted to be friends first. Two items is hardly a list in my view.

I’m thinking he wasn’t okay with being just friends. “Men don’t like being told that. They know what that means,” is what he told me when I said it.

So, my more experienced friends, when all I want is to get to know a guy without having to hand out blow jobs like good night kisses, am I being unreasonable? Perhaps I am a prude, but really, I just want to actually know and like and want to sleep with a guy before I sleep with him, and that doesn’t happen for me immediately. Somewhere earlier in this thread, someone said that a two hour phone call was “enough for him to fall for me”. That’s not me and that never will be me.

So I agree with the consensus. We were not a compatible couple. I have to look elsewhere. But I don’t think there are a lot of guys out there looking for someone like me.

Maybe I shouldn’t bring the whole “friends” thing up that early in a prospective relationship, but I don’t want the guy to have expectations of sexy stuff before I have any inclinations of participating. I thought it would be better for him to know that at the get go. Maybe I’m wrong about that, but I think breaking up would be messier if I went along for six, eight, twelve dates, and then brought up wanting only friendship for the present, if that was what I wanted.

62

Again, we don’t have his version. It is one possibility that her signal caused it. It is not the only possibility. I suppose I could have emphasized it more. How did the OP put out only one signal get back that response? (i.e. the guy seems to be immediately overreacting, pouncing on the very first miscue). In any case…

My niece was living in the medium-sized university town where she grew up, working toward her PhD, and decided to try some dating sites. She said every single guy she met wanted—and many simply expected— sex on the first date. They were like, “Well if you’re not attracted enough or if the sex isn’t very good, we don’t want to waste much time on it.”

So I think the OP having concerns about pressured sex are legit. Consenting adults can do as they like, but I think first date is way too fast. My mindset has always been, “You meet a female, you get a date with her, you get to know her. Sex, marriage, kids…not sure if or when or how soon that might happen.” But what if you could get to know her, THEN date her?

OP, join groups (that have both women and men) that are focused on your interests—gardening, photography, pottery, yoga, hiking, church, toastmasters, Rotary Club, whatever it is you like to do. Chat up the people you meet (especially the guys); just be friendly, and see who’s responsive. Don’t expect huge, instant results. Slow, steady, no sudden moves.

I give you huge points for the guts to talk to talk to a guy at a bus stop. I’m a little nervous about it though, because you may trust the wrong person. In getting to know them over a longer period of time hopefully you can weed out those who are hiding the fact that they have wives or have bizarre personalities. Seeing them in groups means numbers, not wandering away from the safety of the herd.

I wonder if our problem-solving takes us in the wrong direction. “Why would I talk to that woman or this elderly man? That’s not whom I am targeting,” you might say. The shortest path between two points may be a straight line, but computer dating IS that straight line. How’s that working for you. Talk to the woman and older man because friends are good to have and besides, they have brothers and uncles and neighbors and male cousins that might be just perfect for you. Network, in other words.

If you’re just talking to a guy as a friend you have a much better chance of getting straight answers— if that same guy is a date from a matchmaking website, he’s going to try to tell you what you want to hear to get in your pants. So take it out of that framework. You’re just friendly, interested in people, enjoying their company.

Good luck!

63

Oh, HELL yes, you dodged a bullet. Someone who doesn’t believe your preferences are actually your preferences, but rather some weird female code with hidden meanings and arbitrary “rules,” is someone who doesn’t see women as people.

64

This made my day, even if my posts had nothing to do with it.

I don’t think you painted him as an abuser. You portrayed him in a very straightforward way. It’s his own words that condemned him in our minds. I was thinking abuser too but didn’t say it, as I didn’t want to overreact if he was just an entitled jerk. But I feel very confident in identifying him as a dodged bullet.

Agree 100%.

Oh HELL no. Shut it down.

Oh wait, you did already. Well-done.

Speaking as a confirmed and proud slut: not unreasonable at all.

So what if you are?

That was me who said that, and no judgment whatsoever that you don’t fall as fast as I believe some do.

Maybe there aren’t. But it only takes one.

I think you were right the first time. Weeding out guys like this is a feature, not a bug. Had I had that pleasant 2-hour conversation with him, I probably would’ve slept with him before I figured out what a jerk he was. And then he would’ve been that much harder to get rid of.

65

If I were in the market, and younger, I’d definitely want to go out with someone like you. So much of dating gets screwed up by crossed signals. Why ruin a relationship by him coming on too strong assuming you were interested, or have him take it slow and always wonder if he was being a wuss.
Men need more women like you.

66

I just wanted to say one more thing, only because OP seems to be looking for advice on her approach, not because I think she needs it. If I’ve misinterpreted that, please disregard.

There may come a time when you have to choose between having a particular good man in your life and living life fully on your terms. I don’t see any evidence from your posts on this thread that you’re rigid or unreasonable, but I also don’t know for sure that you don’t have any room to loosen up and make room for someone else’s needs. I’ve spent the majority of my adult life in serious relationships; my longest stretch of singledom was a little under four years. But even that period carved a groove in some habits that made for a difficult adjustment when I got into another relationship. Just little things like thinking to check in with my boyfriend when making plans, taking into consideration his meal preferences when food shopping, etc. It took time to shift from thinking in terms of “me” to “we.” And it was an adjustment to suddenly spend so much time with one person, often without a specific activity planned, when it used to be that my down time was my alone time and I did fun things with a wide assortment of friends.

Maybe meeting the right man will make this transition a little easier. Maybe taking it slow will help. But there might come a time when it feels like a lot, and you’re wondering if you really even want this. I can’t tell you whether you do, but I’ll just throw out the possibility that pushing through some difficulty may pay off. With a guy who doesn’t play games and then call you childish. Yeesh.

67

Actually, they did. My mind was changed by re-reading yesterday’s posts before reading today’s.

68

It’s exactly because he’s immediately overreacting that I say it’s not her signal that caused it, but his nature.

If she sent a bad signal to somebody sensible, she’d get a sensible reaction. That reaction might be going away; but it wouldn’t be the reaction she’s describing. If the reaction’s not sensible, it’s the person who it’s coming from that’s the problem.

69

I don’t see any bullets flying around that need to be dodged. What harm could come from another meeting, with body language, to sort out “rules” and other things? After all, YOUR rules are the issue, and they sound pretty rigid. Incommunicado for a week at a time?

70

As I mentioned upthread, I have experience with abuse dynamics, and this is definitely an abuse dynamic.

Of course, he’s going to be pleasant. He is in search of a person to abuse. He won’t get there by being immediately angry and abusive, he has to edge into it.

So, you set boundaries, and he tried to get you to let him violate your boundaries. He did this by trying to tell you that your boundaries were unacceptable, and implied that your boundaries were unreasonable - “little rules”

In addition, he tried to make it that there was something wrong with you when you didn’t act the way he wanted you to by calling it “childish”.

A person who was trained to be an abuse victim would have backed down on their boundaries, and apologize for not meeting his expectations. And continue with the relationship. He would then gradually increase the abusive behavior.

71

But she said he could call her, so what’s the problem? She said she’d call him on Saturday, and said he could call her, just not during work hours. That’s a very reasonable request. I mean, why can’t she be similarly insulted? “I said you can call me, but you never did. I guess you’re not interested.” Besides, if the guy was really interested, why the hell didn’t he call? I certainly would. I’d probably wait a couple days to give her space, but if I’m really interested in somebody, I make that follow-up call, especially if she said “you can call me, just not during work hours.”

72

Her rules aren’t the issue. The (secondary) issue is that she’s got boundaries and he’s unhappy about respecting them.

Which is fine. If someone was like, “Hey, I’m attracted to you, but I’m touchphobic, and I need you not to touch me for at least the first six months we’re dating,” that’d be a dealbreaker for me. It’s okay to think someone’s boundaries are a dealbreaker. No harm, no foul.

But then he called her to insult her. That’s the move he didn’t need to make. She literally gave him permission to ghost her. If her specific boundaries are a dealbreaker, he could’ve not called; or he could’ve even called to say, “Hey, where I’m at in life, I need to be able to chat with someone I’m interested in every night, and that’s not you, so best of luck.” Hell, he could’ve even said, “I know you said only chatting on weekends, but if you reconsider, lemme know, because I’d love to chat with you more often.”

In dating, people get to have whatever boundaries they want, and other people get to consider any specific set of boundaries to be a dealbreaker, and that’s the glory of consenting adults. Once you start belittling someone because of their boundaries, that’s when the line is crossed. And that’s the primary issue.

73

I had already said…

…so I don’t understand how you disagree with my agreement that he’s possibly at fault. Your response includes the exact same phrase—“immediately overreacting,” which I used in the first place, so…?:confused:

Maybe you think it’s a slam dunk, that he’s just a jerk; that’s very possible, but in all fairness I reiterate that he isn’t here to defend himself. But OP herself defended him somewhat when she said he didn’t get ugly (“never raised his voice” and “didn’t even make me feel bad”) so I’m not getting that he’s psycho or anything. A lot of people will trash talk someone when a relationship fails—I appreciate OP’s honesty and I think she wants to let the chips fall where they may. If he’d keyed her car or made comments about her shoes or crank called her at 3 AM or whatever, just being nasty to inflict harm, I wouldn’t think twice about what kind of person he is. But fair is fair.

Anyway this back and forth is distracting to the OP’s question and, I fear, becoming a disservice. I propose we leave it here, agreeing to disagree.

74

Where the fuck are you getting this from?? I feel like I’m in bizzaro world. She said don’t call during work hours in case her boss calls but feel free to call any other time of the day. If he doesn’t call during the week (which he did not) she’ll call him on the weekend.

Where are you getting “rigid rules”??? :confused:

75

They were incommunicado for a week, and it stemmed from her rule. Obviously there were misunderstandings about that, and she was the one who shut it down completely later on. I put “rules” in quotation marks for a reason.

76

It could possibly have stemmed from his misunderstanding of her rules, but the rules themselves were not the cause of a lack of communication.

77

Requests and a statement of preference are not the same thing as rules.

Bullet definitely dodged though, And personally I think the OP should be commended for knowing her mind and stating it at the outset rather than sending vague body-language/attitude signals and hints.

78

I also want to say that seeing this post made me happy.

I think minds do often get changed by discussion; but it’s rare for it to be realized while a specific thread’s still ongoing, and rarer still for somebody to come out and say so.

This. This, this, this.

Doesn’t matter whether the person gets mad at you for saying ‘don’t call me during work hours’, or whether they keep insisting you get another glass of wine when you said you didn’t want one, or whether they insist on eating at the one place you didn’t want to go, or whatever. A person who’s shoving at your boundaries is a person who you want to avoid.

(There are of course cases for discussing boundaries. If you’ve got a long-term established good relationship with somebody and one day they say ‘I know you said you never wanted to live in California and I thought at the time that it didn’t matter to me but now something major’s come up and can we talk about this?’ – that’s not a danger sign. But pushing at somebody you’ve only known a week? You don’t like their boundaries, just walk away. Don’t instead act like they’re not entitled to have any.)

79

I also think you dodged a bullet. Considering how you describe your dating and life preferences, you sound like someone who is normally careful and keeps strong boundaries in place, because you know what works for you.

It’s one thing to hit it off and have a great conversation and “chemistry” with a stranger, but a man who can manage to get a cautious 50-something woman to give him her phone number at a bus stop is, in my experience, probably going to be trouble.

80

Yeah…He should go into telemarketing.:smiley: