So, does it get any easier in a relationship?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

Well, if you are pasionatte about your career, find a woman who fits that profile. So, a woman who isn’t very interested in spending time with you. So, another workaholic. Or a mom who is a mom first, and a wife, a very distant second.

But judging from your OP, such a “separate lives” marriage isn’t going to work for you, either. You suffer when you have no real contact with your fiance, you said so it was hell to be apart from her.

My advice? Man up. Tell your boss you are going to say no to overtime as standard. When you have done so, tell your wife and tell her she’s going to see a change in the next month. Let her see that change. Then propose, again, in a new way, a way that she hasn’t nagged you about.
If that sounds like too much trouble, then forget about the relationship. Really.

42

You bring it up calmly, and don’t use the words “passive-aggressive.” But you don’t ever let her get away with it, because it only gets worse.

When she trots out the “Maybe you don’t want to be together” line, you immediately reply: “STOP. Why did you say that just now? Are you trying to hurt me? Why?”

Sounds like you’ve just been rolling over and accepting all the blame for anything that goes wrong in general – and she has been happy to let you do it. It is not your fault that she is upset with the world, and wants to take it out on you. DO NOT let her keep taking it out on you. Rational discussion might get you some relief. Rolling over for her passive-aggression will only get you (more) grief.

I really, really don’t recommend the other alternative: which is, when she says “Maybe you don’t want to be together” line, you say “Yes” and storm off on your own. Way, way more drama than the satisfaction you get out of it is worth. but, damn, was it satisfying.

I suspect, though, that the best option would be “let’s take a break from each other for a while” to get some perspective. It’ll probably invoke maximum drama, and possibly end things… but better that than the alternative of a marriage that just continues this pattern.

43

Fuck, if you choose to work litigation for a private firm, then you are pretty much selling your life to the firm for the foreseeable future in exchange for current income and the hope of future rewards. But a ton of whores - I mean lawyers - are able to do so and squeeze in the occasional lunch/dinner date.

But as long as you are a junior associate - and very well much later - you’d better get happy jumping whenever a client or senior partner perceives an “urgent” crisis, such as wanting their ass wiped. Clients and senior partners generally consider pretty much everything that crosses their minds to be urgent.

And EVERY litigation lawyer works at the last minute to deadlines. So after you’ve prepared for THIS trial/dep/whatever, don’t kid yourself that there won’t be another one coming right along.

Young private firm lawyers generally have far more cash than time. Neglect of partners/spawn is more common than not. But you should be able to buy her plenty of bright shiny things. (Don’t know how someone gets to be a practicing atty without a credit card, tho!)

Hope you are making enough coin and enjoy the power trip sufficiently to make it worthwhile. Meanwhile, who are you billing while cruising the Dope? :dubious:

44

People in highly stressful, long hour jobs get divorced all the time. I saw it in design projects. I suspect spouses who are happy being effectively single can stand it, but not ones who actually want a real relationship.
If you’ve been working until 2 am for a month, I suspect you are acting like a bastard - unintentional, but very few people can handle that little sleep for that long. I’ve been in that kind of situation twice. Once it had a well defined end, in the other I quit the job for a more sane one. Do you want to 100% satisfy your boss, or do you want to be married? It’s your choice. If the former, you might want to wait until you make partner and have more time to have a relationship - with someone else.
Third, unless you are Superman, I don’t believe you are being very effective at 1 am. Are you there because you are actually doing something useful, or just to show the flag? What happens if you make a mistake while half asleep?
I am also having a hard time believing the world would have ended if you hadn’t run back from lunch a half hour later. You’re not a heart surgeon. What would have happened if you were in a dead spot, or if your battery had run down? It is a poorly organized company that has such little contingency planning.
If you want to be the guy who bills 30 hours a day, go ahead, but I’m not sure you can expect someone without an equally time consuming career to put up with it.

I’ve been married 30 years, but I wouldn’t be if I had gone down your path.

45

Contingency plans come and go, but power trips are forever. A junior associate at a big NYC firm starts at $165,000 (plus health, dental, gym, drivers to take you home late at night, peons to pick up your dry cleaning, and vacation that you never take).

For that money, they own your ass. When they say jump, you hop to.

BTW, if this is indeed the case for the poster, we’re talking a roughly $40,000 ring.

46

Are you planning on having kids? Were you planning on her taking care of them while you work 23 hours a day?

47

Some people need a ring to make it ‘legit.’ I don’t agree with that, but evidently she does.

48

OP: You’re married to your work (Which is fine. If you didn’t want it that way, you would have changed it by now.)

Some women are cool with this; others are not.

She’s not. You’re basically incompatible.

It took you 7 years to figure this out?

49

It sounds like she’s becoming increasingly resentful of your work schedule, doesn’t want to give you the “it’s the job or me” line because she’s afraid it’s the job and doesn’t want to have to face that, and she’s becoming increasingly angry with you as a result. Your apologies ring hollow, because you have no intention of changing your schedule for her, so she’s losing trust in and respect for you, but she doesn’t want to leave, either because of the better times early in your relationship, or the money, or because she thinks it’ll get better, or because it’s a habit. So you end up with an angry, passive-aggressive partner who probably doesn’t believe anything you say because you’ve broken so many promises. So, she starts dropping hints about breaking up to clue you into the seriousness of the problem (while someone more mature would’ve jumped ship, given you an ultimatum, or just accepted it, depending on their priorities) and asks for an expensive ring, I guess assuming if she can’t have you, at least she’d get that out of your working all the time.

Right now, she’s got nothing; you’re blowing her off, so she’s not getting time with you, and there’s no concrete sign of an impending ring. She asks how you’re going to make it up to her when you blow her off, and you’ve got nothing. “She doesn’t see why it isn’t my responsibility to plan something special, since I was the one who stood her up yesterday,” is ridiculous- you don’t even seem to feel bad for standing her up!

From the sound of your OP, she wasn’t always angry like this, but that this is a relatively new dynamic that’s popped up, and both of you are feeding it. I doubt either of you is completely at fault; she could express herself better or man up and break up with you, and you could probably try harder make her a priority.

It looks right now like you both want to have your cake and eat it, too. Right now you want a real relationship but don’t want to put the work into one, and she wants your money and your time (possibly; did she want expensive things before you started working these hours?).

Have you actually talked to her about this? What are her priorities? Does she have a job, or want to start a family? What are her goals, and how does that fit with your job? Is there an amount of time that she’s willing to put up with long hours, if it gets better later? I’d try to find a time when you’re both calm and figure this stuff out.

If you can’t have a reasonable discussion about this, you’d be better off kicking her to the curb now so you can each find someone more compatible. I

50

I don’t know that I’d automatically jump to this conclusion, as most others are. There may indeed be a lot worth saving. But what is incompatible are your job and her expectations. That needs to be ironed out before anything else can happen.

51

V. O., there is life outside the office.

You need to control your schedule so that there is time for family. You need to say no when the office tries to intrude on that time.

Having said that, though, I must admit that I would be more than a little perturbed about her constant comments about you being better off by yourself, and she might be better off with someone else. They tend to override the scheduling issues.

Your relationship has some serious problems and I hope you can get them resolved. Counseling, perhaps?

Good luck!

52

I’d say both of their expectations are incompatible at this point. I don’t think this is unsalvageable, but I do think they both need to figure out a better way to live.

53

Those making these claims clearly have no clue as to the demands of working in litigation. Saying “no” in anything but an extreme personal situation is basically shutting the door on advancement. Dinsdale has it right; you are essentially selling ten years of your life for the chance of making partner. (Ditto for working in a lot of academic science research, tech start-ups, investment banking, top tier marketing, et cetera.) Anyone who is going to come along for that ride, and enjoy/expect/demand the shiny bobbles that come along with it either needs to accept this as part of the price, or move on to a post dot-com Internet magnate who is selling his third startup to Google for mid-eight figures. Demanding, needy, and non-supporting spouses are a divorce in the making; if that is the kind of lifestyle the o.p. seeks to lead, then he needs to find someone who will take the whole package and not bitch that the jewels come with a price.

Oh, and recommended viewing: War of the Roses. This is the future of the relationship described by the o.p. Oliver Rose: I think you owe me a solid reason. I worked my ass off for you and the kids to have a nice life and you owe me a reason that makes sense. I want to hear it.
Barbara Rose: Because. When I watch you eat. When I see you asleep. When I look at you lately, I just want to smash your face in.

Stranger

54

Even if you find a way to get her to accept your work schedule, reduce the amount of hours you work, and manage to take vacations and have lunch, and get her the engagement ring of her dreams, you still will be with a woman who says things like:

That won’t change after marriage.

I’m not in litigation, but I often work late too. My SO gets grouchy and sad when I’m not around and dinner is delayed. But he understands I don’t want to be at work, and that given the choice, I’d be with him, cuddling on the sofa. I understand his dismay when I tell him I’ll be coming home late, but I would have little guilt about dumping him if he gave me the same shit and drama your GF gives you.

In the long run, I think you would best be served by someone who 1) does not say mean things and make threats in anger, 2) is better able to express her frustration and work toward a compromise, and 3) is less demanding. Seven years does not obligate you to decades of misery.

55

One more thing: even your thread title is telling. You ask if it gets any “easier”. Easier. Not “better”, or more “loving”. No, easier. Even your OP sounds like the question of an overworked man who just wished his wife wouldn’t make any waves for him.

Your title says where you stand.

56

That’s a good point. Are you two best friends? I mean, really? Would you be hanging out all the time if you weren’t in a romantic relationship?

57

About the work thing, I’m sure there are lawyers here who are dating, or are married, right? How do you manage it?

There are attached couples in the office, but most of them are attached to other lawyers. And those who are married… are married to lawyers. I’m beginning to see why…
Now, I know you’re only hearing my side of the story. I’m trying to be as impartial as I can, but anyway I don’t want to find fault or assign blame - I’m most definitely part of the problem.

I am disorganised. Messy. I manage to stay on top of deadlines by copious postits and my calander, but even that doesn’t help sometimes.

I’m pretty thick when it comes to emergency social situations. If I’m put on the spot (say, for example, a baby I’m holding starts screaming and reaching for candy) I tend to freeze and/or do stupid things.

I’m quite a “jellyfish” - ask me what I want for dinner and I’m good for anything, really. This really annoys her for some reason.

I tend to try too hard to make my views known/understood. If I know I’m right, I tend to push harder than I should. I don’t do this very much any more, though… being wrong/misunderstood is better than being annoying.
Two points really jump out at me among all the advice… that I’m breaking my promises, and the threats.

I don’t break my promises. If I promise something, I know I can do it. I don’t promise things all that often. However, she’s brought up this point herself, and that’s security. I don’t seem to give her a sense of security. It might be a symptom of my disorganisation, or it might be a symptom of my “flip flopping”, I don’t know. But she’s brought it up before.

Honestly, I think I should be the one feeling insecure - I’m the one who gets these threats to “be by yourself, dump you” etc.

Which brings me to the second point, threats. Am I overreacting to them? Someone previously said that she was looking to get a reaction out of me, and I think that’s true, but that reaction is almost entirely negative. It doesn’t make me want to show her more love, it makes me want to leave her. Do all women make such threats? Women, do YOU make such threats? Do you really mean them? Why do you do it? Men, what are your reactions to such threats?

58

I think she’s trying to make you understand how big a problem this is for her, which you either don’t want to admit, or don’t care about. Nagging and being angry doesn’t stop you from blowing her off and giving her insincere apologies (and I don’t care how much you fall all over yourself; it’s an insincere apology if you have no intention of coming to some kind of compromise). She doesn’t want to leave you (for whatever reason), and that’s all that’s left; a relationship nuclear bomb. Did she always treat you this way? I’m betting not, or you wouldn’t be asking about how to fix things. She’s probably frustrated and pissed off pretty much to the breaking point, but is so used to being with you that she doesn’t know what to do.

Did you promise she’d have a ring “by August”? Because if I were her, and I’d been told I’d be engaged by August, and it was July and my future husband started arguing the semantics of what “by August” meant, I’d be pretty frigging upset.

/edit It sounds from your posts that she doesn’t feel like she can count on you. At all. Which is a big problem for a potential marriage. She shouldn’t be threatening you, but you can only control your behavior, not hers. And if she didn’t start out this way, something happened. I’m not saying what happened is your fault, but it’s got to be something.

59

I was the database administrator for a major litigation law firm for four years. During the first year I was there, a bunch of the lawyers basically told the boss that he got 50-60 hours a week out of them and that was it. 10 hour days, 0800-1800 Monday thru Friday and at least a half day on Saturday most of the time. Their families were suffering because he had been demanding 70 hours+ a week and they weren’t going to put up with it.

The boss was not pleased, but there wasn’t much he could do about it. By the time I left, most of those lawyers were junior partners and a couple were full partners.

60

She is trying to push your emotional buttons. (and, she is succeeding.) No surprise you had a negative reaction – no one says those things who doesn’t want to get a negative reaction.

At the best, you have someone here who is going to continue to deal in this kind of emotional blackmail with you. At the worst, she is well aware of the effect it is having on you, and is continuing with the emotional abuse regardless.

All women do NOT make such threats. And, personally, my reaction to anyone making such threats to me is to immediately get rid of them from my life. Even if I’ve got a long history with them. Even if they are family. Even if I’m inclined to let it slide because they aren’t always like that.

I value myself enough that I won’t put up with emotional abuse.