Umm…if he never makes any attempt to get to get to know girls who are not highly physically attractive, doesn’t he also have a problem?
And wouldn’t he be more honest to say “Those girls don’t like me because they’re overly concerned with physical appearence, just like I am.” and not “they don’t like me because I’m nice”?
An ex-flatmate of mine was like this.
While it’s by far from an absolute rule, people do tend to end up with people of a similar attractiveness level. This isn’t strictly about physical attractiveness, but if you’re obese and quite hideously ugly by the current social “standards”, then you need an exceptional personality or exceptionally huge wallet to overcome that.
Personally, I mainly go for intelligence and kindness.
You might want to write a letter of complaint to the people who wrote my Intro To Psych book then, WeirdDave. According to the book, and the rather dim grad student who taught the class, the OP’s rant is an actual psychological phenomenon. I think it’s called “relative attractiveness” and the point is that people tend to be attracted to people with the same level of attractiveness as theirs. While this doesn’t explain the tastes of the guys in the OP it does explain the girls. Unfortunately, I’ve long since sold back the book so I can’t thumb through it and find out for sure if that’s what the theory is called.
I would like to add that a person’s general level of attractiveness, both as perceived by themselves and others, can change during their lifetime. I know I got more attention from women when I played football in college, and I’m pretty sure it’s because I was quite buff. After I stopped playing I started putting on the weight, and things weren’t quite so smooth.
But I don’t worry about it much. Obviously, I can always get back in shape again. I’ve noticed that I tend to attract only women who like me and my personality now, and who aren’t just looking for sex.
Besides, by about the age of 23 or so, I had met SO many women stuck on themselves because of their looks (although chula sounds cool) that I actually don’t try as hard to get to know really attractive women. It’s a weird sort of prejudice, but it’s based on experience.
Being 5’5’ and topping 120 lbs(sopping wet) I can say you’re wrong. I like latrger men. For one thing, there’s something you can hold onto (and use to get warm!). For another, I’m very strong and I would worry about breaking a skinny person.
I also absolutely believe that physical appearance is worth less than the person underneath.
And FTR, I’m also a “nice” girl.
fades back into the Lurk
Morelin
Not sure if this fits exactly, buit here it is anyway. Being the big old Switzerland that I am, I’m always interested in the complex relations of ladies and gentlemen.
At my brother’s birthday party the other night, a very attractive young woman was complaining to me about being unable to find a guy, having no sex life, etc. Intrigued, I grabbed a nearby very attractive young gentleman, asked if he was single (yes) and whether he could see himself having sex with her (yes), and whether she found him attractive (yes.)
They did not get together.
Much more study is needed.
I know where Shakes is coming from.
Far past the point now, but I used to be a pretty attractive single woman (now I’m a middle age wife and mother of two who doesn’t break mirrors, but does need to lose ten pounds, has a little grey in my hair, and laugh lines around my eyes). I’ve also been the type of girl who is “one of the guys.” And I’d hear my male friends do the same whine as Shakes is complaining about. Often very nice guys. But not traditionally handsome. Carrying more than a few extra pounds. Often with employment issues. And/or housing issues (live with Mom, or in a Group Home of half a dozen other single guys - not one of whom ever learned what a toilet brush was).
Now, I knew women who had crushes on said guys. But when you’d ask them “well, what do you think of Karen,” the answer was she wasn’t attractive enough. Guess what - you just lost the right to do the “nice guy” whine. 'Cause perfectly nice Karen has been flirting with you for three months, would go out with you in a heartbeat, but you don’t want to date her because she could use a few months worth of Weight Watchers! Hate to break it to you, but you could use a few months of Weight Watchers yourself .
My husband and I knew each other for years before dating. One of the reasons he never asked me out was because I was “out of his league.” So I know first hand that there are “inter-league” marriages that work. But, if the first spark isn’t physical attractiveness (or another obvious quality, like being rich enough to attract the type of woman who thinks “when I was in law school…” is a come on) - its going to take a while for a girl to catch on to your other qualities.
(chula, as a former trophy girlfriend, I can relate…Some of these guys I broke up with after a few dates when it became obvious they didn’t have a single clue who they were dating!)
I’m surprised one or both of them didn’t kick your ass. 
Would it be that simple for you, matt_mcl? If you were complaining to a woman or a straight man that you couldn’t find a guy (just go with the analogy) and s/he just grabbed a guy for you, asked if he was gay, single, and found you attractive, would you just go for it? Personally, I could see myself being a little uncomfortable in the situation you describe. By the way, PEOPLE LIE!!! If one of these people didn’t find the other person attractive, would you expect them to be honest about it?
What, do you think straight people are robots? 
I don’t agree with the OP how its written, but its a VERY good point.
ugly smelly guy: no girls date me!
someone: here is a girl, shes ugly and smelly
usg: no! I don’t want an ugly smelly girl!
someone: then why should they have lower standards than you!?
Let me tell you about a friend of mine.
He is fat. I’m not talking 250 either. At one point in his life he was over 400. He is a really tall guy and the weight distributes itself well over his frame but still. When he was in the 350 range he picked up a waitress. A waitress you say? Yeah. he picked her up in the place where she worked. It was called Hooters. Have you heard of it? Maybe you think, well some of those girls aren’t that great. No, this babe was the babe of Hooters. She is the most attractive person I have ever seen live.
That was a while back. Now he weighs between 250 to 300 but it’s hard to tell because he spends most of his time in one of those electric chairs. (he now has MS) He has 12 girlfriends. Yes that’s right 12. He is getting his dick sucked by 12 different women and most of them are pretty good looking. It really pisses me off because this fat guy in a stupid electric chair is getting his dick sucked by more women then I have had in my LIFE. Did I mention that he is FAT? And in one of those stupid old lady chairs?
Somewhere in all that fat he has mojo.
If it was at a party and he was cute, I’d certainly chat him up. It might be fun.
Yeah, I agree with the OP–especially as re-phrased by Dangerosa and yosemitebabe. I, too, have seen this phenomenon over and over.
Men often seem to overestimate their own attractiveness. A lot of guys who complain about this stuff just aren’t really attractive, either in looks or personality.
They love to say that “girls don’t like nice guys,” but the guys who say that are often not very nice! There are lots of females out there that want nice guys, but we want them to be actual nice guys.
I think humor columnist Dave Barry said it best, when he said (paraphrased): “A guy can have a gut poking out from under his t-shirt that looks like a one-eyed albino walrus trying to escape, and a grand total of six hairs strategically combed to cover the rest of his scalp, and yet he will still think he ranks right below Mel Gibson on the attractiveness meter.”
Hey OP, it’s not that f-ing simple.
Just a few years ago I was a completely forgettable “freckly faced nerdy looking person.” Now that I’ve grown a bit people think I’m good looking, but when I look in the mirror I still see the old me. I’m not sure what the hell my league is; when cute girls approach me I invariably make a fool of myself. The whole dating scene is just over my head.
It’s just like anything else…
Act like you belong, and no one will ever be the wiser.
I am a Big-Ol-Boy™. But I am smart, funny, polite and I get to know people (and let them know me) before I ask them for a date.
I am dating just one of the sweetest, most beautiful women I have ever met. She also has a master’s degree, and is gainfully employed.
In other words, she’s smart, she’s funny, she’s responsible, and a hell of a catch. The fact that she is drop-dead gorgeous is a bonus. I’d be dating her, and having a great time, even if she looked like an old shoe.
There isn’t a “league” that you belong in. There are people that are deserving of you asking them out, and those that are not. Conversely, if you don’t take care of yourself and don’t know how to behave… there are those you deserve, too.
Get to know people, and be worth knowing. The rest will take care of itself.
5’ 10" 325 here
I bet you would cry if you saw my wife.
Shes hot, better educated, and makes at least twice as much money as me.
Since I love to brag, I live all your naughty nurse fantasies every day.
So who says big boys can’t score the hot chicks :rolleyes:
Thank you for summing up the dating scene so well for millions of “nice” girls out there, looking for “nice” guys. Very nicely said. (Oh, for the “Karens” out there - some day a guy will notice you for yourself - don’t waste any time pining over these schleps who don’t even notice what a premium woman you are.)
As long as the OP is saying, “never disregard people you may not think are your physical ideal” and not “for God’s sake, never ask out a really attractive person, because why on Earth would (s)he go out with YOU?”, I agree entirely.
Though I do remember reading a dating advice book that did say to NEVER ask out someone who was more attractive than you. I don’t quite remember the logic, though…
Guess that limits my options for dating within my own species.
Seriously, though, what kind of advice is THAT? Wouldn’t the fact that you’re reading a dating guide suggest you’re a little unsure of yourself already, and could use a little more encouragement and a little less incentive to degrade oneself?
(Not directed towards you, Leaper, I’m just speaking in general)
How do you know how much pretty you have though? I know some people who have sooooo much more pretty then they think they have and others who have been smacked with the ugly stick but believe they are nothing but pretty.
I think we need an “International Pretty Register” . You could send in a photo. They could analyse you and give you a numerical rating. Then link you to “hundreds of singles in your area” (grrrrr to spam).
Dear Mr Jones
Thank you for your photo. Our experts have rated you as a 2. Please browse through the extensive list of 2 women on our registry. You may also feel free to look through the 1’s and 3’s.
However if you get above your league and start trying to look at 5’s we shall have to take away your member access.
Yours sincerly
Chief Pretty Assessor
The alternative is to go caveman…lurk somewhere the 10’s hangout with a baseball bat.
hmmmm off to find a baseball bat and a gym full of 10 blokes 