You did NOTHING wrong. The amounts and occasions you are talking about are trivial and appropriate for a friend. Your OP gave the impression it might be hundreds or thousands of dollars in cash and gifts, and that would be inappropriate. But a ride to work? $20 for your birthday? It would have been more rude to turn those down.
There’s no lesson to learn here. You did good.
You don’t appear to have said the same thing–at least, in what Broomstick quoted. The rest of your post seems to be similar, but that line is different. Shodan doesn’t ever say that the OP would be wrong if they meant “never” but instead used indirect language that implied there was still a chance.
I can’t speak for Shodan, but I do personally think it’s okay to be indirect at first. You just need to be prepared if the person doesn’t take the hint and you have to be more direct. You shouldn’t get mad if they don’t take the hints, of course, but the OP doesn’t appear to be doing that.
I disagree with everyone who says that it would be wrong for her to have said she wasn’t ready for a relationship while thinking she would probably never date him. I previously would have agreed, but I’ve since learned there are reasons why women often don’t feel comfortable being direct. Some guys react really badly to being directly told no.
On the other hand, I don’t see anything wrong with him trying again, either. Nor with how he reacted–of course it’s going to hurt if you got your hopes up. Still, I don’t see it as her responsibility to figure out that he still wanted to date, either. She’s not required to pick up on his hints, either.
So I disagreed with one part of your post but not the whole thing. I think that should be acceptable.
Now that I know it was only $20 for a birthday, it’s not so bad.
Yes, Shodan does. Saying “the correct answer is not X” is the same as saying “answer X is wrong” Different words, same intent and meaning:
Both of these statements mean: don’t say ‘later’ if you mean ‘never’. Granted, I added my opinion that this would be naive, but these statements are not at all odds with one another really.
This is something I hadn’t really considered when I posted, and I see your point. Letting someone down easy may be the preferred safe option, all things considered. Fair point.
However, would you agree, that I absolutely did not say or imply this?:
Disagreeing with something I said is one thing; claiming I said something I never said quite another.
I want to give another perspective. I have given token gifts to platonic male friends at various points in my life–picked up the tab when it was their birthday, or the like. I have certainly done small favors for male friends, on par with a ride to work.
If in any of these encounters those male friends had turned me down or refused those gifts because they didn’t want to “lead me on”, I would have been humiliated. Mostly because in no case was I actually interested, and to have them take those gifts as evidence that I must want them and then reject me would have been awful. I can’t be a friend? I can’t do anything nice for you without it being about your amazing dick?
I know the dynamic is a little different when the man has expressed interest in the past, but still. Refusing a ride from a friend when you really need one for no good reason, or handing someone back $20 they gave you for your birthday would be a “fuck you”. It would be treating him as if they only reason he could want to be nice to her would be to get in her pants.
This clarifies a lot. I was going to ask you things like “How did this man know you needed money?” Were you constantly hinting, talking about how you’re rent was due and you were broke or about how your lights would be switched off if you didn’t pay your power bill today?
Based on your OP, I thought he was giving you substantial sums of money, like a $100 here, $200 there, $500 cause the rent’s due. I’ve known women that use men they aren’t interested in this way, and I don’t think highly of those women.
But based on this post, this is not you. To echo MandaJo—
It sounds like he gave you a total of $40. In my estimation and in the situations you described, that constitutes appropriate gift-giving between casual friends. In one case it was your birthday and $20 is an appropriate gift, and in the other case he came into a little “found” money and wanted to share it.
This is something I’ve also done with casual friends.
I see it as a guy you know and considered a friend tried to escalate the relationship. You weren’t interested and turned him down. Now it turns out he’s not interested in being your friend anymore. I don’t even see the gifts as being a significant factor. This wasn’t some sugar daddy you were cultivating.
The idea that $40 in gifts created an obligation is ridiculous and a little archaic, much like the idea that if you were on a date, you didn’t order the expensive entree unless you intended to put out. This was actually a thing us girls talked about back in my dating days.
He liked you romantically. You didn’t like him that way. You didn’t use him or lead him on. You probably did hurt his feelings a little bit, but that’s unavoidable at times even for the best of us. And it’s important that you know that and that you are OK with it.
It’s important to act with respect to the feelings of others ( which I think you did here, at every step of the way). But you can’t do things you don’t want to do just to avoid hurting someone’s feelings. And it’s good that you are bothered by what happened, it shows empathy. But you didn’t do anything wrong here.
Despite the title of the thread, this situation has little to do with the actual exchange of gifts and favors. The OP openly admits that she has self-esteem issues and that her ex is a manipulative drug addict. Her suitor mostly likely got into a “snit” because she endlessly talked about how her ex mistreated her and how she still can’t get over him and he, being a nice guy, can’t get anywhere with her. A lot of good men with good intentions want relationships with women. But many women are drawn to bad boys. This can be very frustrating and worse, good men start emulating “bad boys” thinking that’s way to get a woman to fall for you.
I think the OP knows this as well. She can’t figure out why she has contempt for a man who treats her kindly and an obsession with a man who abuses her.
So you think she should have refused the $20?
I think you’re projecting, no where did she say she talked endlessly about her ex and can’t get over him. And a man who thinks he has to mimic bad behavior to land a date lacks confidence in himself and will surely never find satisfaction with the women he does convince with that behavior. I think our OP could be more assertive and less apologetic.
I am over my ex. It would be difficult not to be, no matter the self esteem. I hope no woman has such low self esteem that she would put up with him. I only lived there til I was able to afford to go. I was wrong to try and help after I’d left, that only encouraged his rude behavior. Always make a clean break.
This man comes to the tv rarely now, and sits at a seat farther away from where I sit(right in front of the screen).
My point is, Sometimes taking small gifts indicates to Some men that you are interested, so that is what I’ve learned. if anyone ever in the future wants to help me out, I will make conversation about my never dating again.
I think he’s morally obligated not to pretend he’s a platonic friend if what he’s really doing is biding his time until she’s ready to date. It’s not that it was wrong of him to ask, it’s that asking indicates his “nice guy act” was just indeed just an act.
Note though I didn’t say “It’s clear cut”, I said it was “more clear cut”. To me it’s less of a maybe than her accepting his acts of “friendship”, but it’s not a stone tablet.
Just as a point of reference, as a man I’ve never been offered $20 from a neighbor just because I was near them whne they scratched a winning lotto ticket. Nor a short ride because omg it’s raining. If they did, my likely first thought would honestly be “is this guy hitting on me?” So I frankly find it baffling that women actually live in a world where there is any confusion as to why relative strangers give them free stuff.
You noted the exchange of money and the free ride wasn’t the first interaction, right? It started with watching sports and chatting, including opening up about not wanting to date. Have you ever offered favors for someone you wanted to make friends with?
I hit $300 on a scratch off and I gave my buddy who was there $50 worth of that same scratch off. (He won $20). I wasnt hitting on him, either.
This is an interesting thread that IMHO goes at the heart of the differences between men and women. Like other posters have eluded, women want to be “pursued” so “play hard to get” but yet keep the aura of “if you keep at it, you’ll be rewarded” alive. So, the man will think “if I just be a gentleman, she’ll be interested”.
No one is necessarily “at fault”. The woman made it clear she was not looking for a relationship and he took that to mean “try harder” so he did. Well for him it didn’t work. His “snit” was when it finally hit home that he was barking up the wrong tree.
Your buddy? Not the guy you occasionally watch the lobby TV with?
No, because I never “want to make friends with someone”. I generally take an organic approach to friend making.
If I want to be friendly with my neighbors, I’ll do favors if they ask or just automatically help them get the snow off their car or something. I don’t give them money or unsolicited rides to job interviews.
This makes a whole lot of assumptions, the vast majority of which are likely untrue. Do you have studies to back up your claims that “many women are drawn to bad boys” and the rest? My informal study (many women friends) concludes that women want decent guys who treat them respectfully and don’t make weird assumptions like you do.
There are some really, really nice people out there. One of my brothers would totally do all those things for a casual neighbor, make or female. He’s got really high situational awareness for when someone could use a hand, and he likes to help out.
Handling out cash to a relative stranger, who’s not begging on the street is weird. Sorry.