Tell me about your marriage.

In My Humble Opinion
61

I am not married. I came close once, but there were family problems (his, not mine) and things fell apart. In the long run, I think this is a good thing. Especially considering my new sweetie…sigh.

I only have a couple of things to throw in here.

When I was eight my brother was born, and since our dad was overseas for the year (thank you so much, USAF…yep, send a man who has a two month old baby to Korea for a year…) it was me, my mom, and my brother. I loved getting up super early on weekends for some ungodly reason, so once my brother was off the breast, I’d get up, fix him a bottle, and keep him occupied to let Mom sleep in a while longer. If I could fix a bottle at the age of eight, I can’t imagine why your eleven-year-old can’t fix a couple of bowls of cereal to tide them over until later.

And like a couple of other people, aside from the first couple of times I had sex which were going to hurt no matter what either of us did, if something hurts I’m not going to just lie there and take it. My ex was not a great lay, but he was very considerate. If I said “ouch” we’d change what we were doing, no questions asked. I find his not wanting you to say a word, good or bad, very odd, and highly off-putting.

This sounds like an unpleasant situation for everybody. I hope you can get this ironed out somehow.

62

Dragongirl, based on your response, I see absolutely no reason for you to stay in this relationship. He only wants you to do whatever he wants. He will only accept other opinions if they agree with what he already thinks. You sound miserable, and for good reason. He doesn’t appear to show the slightest desire to change. He doesn’t appear to care the slightest bit about your needs, your feelings, or just you in general. His attitude towards sex is very disturbing. This isn’t love, and it’s no kind of marriage. It’s a very bad situation that you need to get away from. It won’t be easy to be on your own, but for f***'s sake, ANYTHING has got to be better than this. It’s going to be all up to you, because your husband apparently will not accept you in any role other than “Doormat”. If you ever want your life to be better, you’ve got to get up off the doorstep and get the hell out of there.

63

Left out a word. Oops.

64

Okay, to recap, he pooh-poohs your suggestions for compromise, but isn’t willing to offer any of his own, or to make any effort to let you get a break. He’s pleased we agree with him, but dismisses our opinions when we disagree with him. He still insists that he knows your body better than you do, and is accusing you of punishing him because you don’t want to do something you don’t enjoy. He tells you, basically, that you’re a freak for feeling the way you feel.

Christ on a cracker, woman, what in the nine thousand names of God are you doing with this manipulative dickwad? He’s not interested in solving the problems, he just wants affirmation of his own preformed opinions so he can have everything his own way all the time.

You need to get the hell out of this relationship. Not just for your own sake, although you’re in pretty desperate need of it, but for your kids. This is not healthy for them. Think about your life. Do you want your daughter to live like that when she grows up? Do you want your son to turn out like your husband? That’s what you’re most likely looking at if you don’t get them out of this mess.

Do yourself and your children an enormous favor and change the locks while he’s at work tomorrow.

65

There are some good things about him too. But it’s true that right now all I can see is the bad.

When we first started dating, I managed to break my leg in school. He came over every day to get dinner for me and run errands for me. I lived with my parents at the time, but my dad worked a lot and my mom was an alcoholic, so otherwise I was pretty much on my own.

He used to send me flowers and teddy bears and when I was pregnant, we lived in an apartment where the washers and dryers were in the basement. He used to do the laundry for me.

Now, he’ll fill up the sugar bowl for the coffee if it’s empty and he’ll get the coffee machine ready so that all I have to do with it is turn it on. He’s not a drinker, an alcoholic and he doesn’t physically abuse me.

You are correct with the kids. They are old enough to make their own breakfast and I do tell them to. But my son will argue till the cows come home about it and fight with his sister about which kind of cereal she wants to eat. It’s just easier for me to make it most of the time.

The kids are both in school full time and at this point I wouldn’t mind getting a job. But that’s easier said then done. I don’t have any family nearby, they are out of state. Most of my friends work full time, so I would have to pay for child care. I got married young and I never got an education outside of high school, so my job options are limited. Everything I applied to do will only pay minimum wage, I could live with that while they are at school, but during the summer I would owe more then I make.

I did have a job a few years ago, but my son got strep throat, then my daughter got strep throat, then I got fired. I had never been fired from a job before and it hurt.

It’s not really an option for him to get a different job with less hours and me to get a job too. Only because he makes much more maney then I could make up for and we are already broke most of the time.

I don’t know what’s going to happen between me and my husband anymore.

66

Isn’t this the same husband who told you that your breasts look like cow udders?

The ongoing theme here seems to be that he sees absolutely nothing wrong with his behavior, even though it is making you extremely unhappy. And he thinks he’s a good husband because he doesn’t drink, cheat, or beat you.

If he is unwilling to understand that there is more to being a husband than NOT doing a select list of bad things, then IMO he should not be one. “But there are good things about him too” (usually a very short and telling list) is the oft-repeated refrain of women who need to get out of the relationship – yesterday.

My mother once made a list of pros and cons about my dad. The pro list was short: doesn’t drink excessively (a beer now and then), has a job, pays his share of the bills, doesn’t hit, doesn’t cheat. The con list was a lot longer, and quite a lot of it related to his emotional unavailability. (Sound familiar?) I will also tell you that the six months after she kicked him out were the most pleasant of my childhood, without all the fighting and negative vibe in the house. We actually had fun. But then she took him back and it went back to the old yuck. She’s still with him (nearly 40 years) and still unhappy. He sees nothing wrong with the situation, except to be confused when she complains.

In order for a marriage to work, BOTH people have to be willing to work at it. That isn’t happening here.

67

Do you know what you feel should happen?

and a couple of other important questions…

Do you love him? Does he love you? If he understood that you were desperately unhappy, would he want to do something to help, without feeling manipulated?

68

I have been here, btw. Reasonable man that I am, I came the the realization that there is virtually nothing in the house that I can’t do better than my wife and kids. I’m taller, stronger, I can get by with less sleep, and, being anal retentive, I have a knack for observing the ‘right’ way of doing something and repeating it consistently ad infinitum. Yay for me. Especially after my wife had our baby, I was all over the place, taking care of clothes, dishes, meals, bills, everything. Know what it got me? My wife and I stopped making love because I was always too wiped out or stressed about silly things, and my kids and I stopped talking because I was always too busy cleaning up after them to have anything to say to them but how useless they were. Even after the baby was old enough to not be attached to her all the time, it went on this way.

That was about a year ago. My wife finally sat me down (she loves me, you know) and we talked it out. Now, even though my first instinct is to do something, I will often just point it out the the kids, and make them do it. Eventually, they got the idea. Same thing with my wife, though I know that I had spoiled her for a long time with it.

And now we are okay, and I wonder what the heck I was thinking. I’ve also come to the realization that while I am a good cook, my wife is an incredible cook. :slight_smile:

Anyway, the long and the short of it is: it might be hard in the beginning, but if you refuse to make them do it, they have no incentive to ever learn to do for themselves. And that’s as bad for them as it is for you.

As for your marriage, people who have seen me post in relationship threads know that I am usually the guy that says that we’re not privy to all of the details, so we should not jump on the ‘leave the bum!’ bandwagon.

However, just from what we are being told, I think that it would be healthiest for you and your kids to find somewhere else to be. He won’t change, and you’re simply breeding another man just like him in your son, and young lady that will endure someone just like him in your daughter.

69

Let me guess- he agreed to seek advice from us, then when he started seeing advice he didn’t agree with, he got mad and picked a fight with you. So how long before he bans you from visiting the SDMB because we might “fill your head with crazy ideas”?
For one thing, his work hours need to change. NO marraige, even the best, could withstand a partner being gone from home from 4 a.m. (or so) to 6 p.m. That is not even reasonable. WTF?? 6 days a week??
I’m with the concensus that you need to get out. Been there, done that… and I know that one of the hardest things in the world to do is leave (relative) financial security with 2 kids and no (good) job. Somehow, though, lots of women have done it. None of us can tell you convincingly, what to do. You will just have to reach a point where you’re empty inside and ANYthing is better than being with him.
As much as HE doesn’t want to hear it, we’re all here for you. Get counseling for yourself.

70

I don’t think it’s a good idea to advocate divorce on the basis of a few posts, but this doesn’t sound like a great situation.

About the kids: like everyone else, I think kids of 11 and 9 (even a developmentally delayed 9) are old enough to be doing more for themselves. They can get themselves cereal and entertain themselves for an hour or so while you sleep a while. An eleven-year-old boy can easily learn to make French toast, eggs, muffins, cookies, quesadillas, smoothies, and lots of other easy dishes–and do his own laundry besides. I know it’s hard (I’m a SAHM myself, I live it too), but in the long run you’re not doing him any favors. First, try some cooking classes; teach him a few things. Then, it may be time to get tough; if you refuse to fix any more snacks, and tell him to get his own breakfast, it won’t hurt him to go hungry for a couple of hours while he learns that yelling will no longer get him what he wants. By giving in to complaints and whining, you’re only encouraging him to misbehave–you know that, but it’s hard to steel yourself for the horrible few days it will take to correct the wrong course he’s on. But if this continues, he will always expect someone else to feed him.

Their constant fighting: what have they got to do this summer? Does the local community center offer any classes or sports? Distraction sounds good. Also, you could get a few books on power struggles and fighting from the library, and try some of the strategies in them. Going on an anti-fighting program may help them learn: for example, whenever they pick fights, they might have to put a dollar in the jar, or lose privileges such as video games or TV (TV often makes kids grumpy anyway). Or they can make up the time you lose in refereeing by doing jobs for you.

As for MrDragon: On Sundays, when he does maintenance, what’s stopping you from taking off for a couple of hours? Can the kids help him out, or entertain themselves?

If he won’t stand up to his family (DangerDad’s comment was that real men do not let this kind of thing happen, btw), then I think you should just remove yourself and the kids from them. I don’t care if they’re his kids, too; it’s damaging to them, and if he won’t do anything to rectify the situation, then you have to do what you can. Besides, cutting off access to the grandkids might have an effect on your MIL, you never know…

For you: OK, you have no education and not much prospect for good employment. IMO you should start taking classes at the community college while the kids are in school. Get an AA in something–anything to improve your prospects and yourself. Then you’ll be able to get a better job, and employment will become more feasible. If you do wind up divorcing MrDragon, you have to have some way to support yourself, and you don’t have that. You are not in a good position to strike out on your own, and I hope you will be able to do something about that; every woman should have something she can do to support herself. Divorce sucks up a lot of money, and the woman usually winds up poorer than before. Prepare yourself for that possibility.

And, once again, I hope you two have some sort of date night thing worked out. If your marriage is going to survive, you need to spend time together relaxing and finding out what makes the marriage worth working for. Especially, he needs to realize what he stands to lose; far too many men don’t figure that out until it’s too late.

71

I think one of the reasons I love you is your modesty! :wink:

True, and this works. The investment in making them learn definitely pays off. This morning, my sons, 13 and 10, made their own breakfast, breakfast for their 2-year-old brother, and me: Scrambled eggs (with the fabulous microwave “eggwave”), cinnamon toast (pop-up toaster and a cinnamon/sugar sprinkler), apple wedges (Pampered Chef’s apple corer/slicer), and cranberry juice.
Then my two older sons folded a load of laundry, put the wet things in the dryer, and refilled the washer with a new load. I was not able to “sleep in” during this time, but I did watch the morning news and lounge as I kept an ear our for disaster and occupied the toddler with snuggles.
Bottom line: Kids can do far more than we often give them credit. Children who can help out, share the chores, and work independently are going to grow into confident, independent adults*.
Until you decide what to do about your marriage, I suggest you begin changing what YOU can, meaning- help your children learn to help. Having a couple extra set of hands to help with your job may alleviate some of your stress. A relaxed person sees their life far differently than one who is close to the breaking point.
IME, a 9 and 11 year-old can:
Dust
Vacuum
unload a dishwasher
sweep
fold towels, washcloths, socks and underwear
sort laundry by color
Put away their own folded laundry and hang up clothes
Wash sinks and counter-tops
Make cereal, toast, and fix their own beverages
make a simple lunch (sandwich, chips, drink)
wash vegetables
make salad
set the table
clear the table
clean mirror and windows with paper towel and wind-ex
General pick up/put away toys, books
Canvas the house for dishes to take to the kitchen
Canvas the house and yard for trash that needs to be picked up and thrown away.
Pull weeds
My 13 year-old was helping to mow the yard by 11.

My children do not do all of this everyday (Sheesh, I’m not a slave driver!), but just a couple things off this list -daily- can help lighten your load immensely. Plus, busy children have less time for bickering.

In light of your last post, it seems you’re not really ready to make any changes to your marriage, so: Focus on making things easier for you and your children.
Teach your children to function in the capacity of helper, rather than burden. Make it fun, and praise them to high heaven for the help (and you will have to go behind them and redo it in the beginning). In a month, they will have the knack, and housework will be easier, more fun, and more relaxed. Ignore your husband as an outlet for help/comfort. He’s obviously not into giving either. It’s almost a single mom mentality and it’s do-able. Women function this way everyday, and many I know are very happy and relaxed.

*most of the time

(also, just to help your worry with one thing, my 10 year-old goes to school neat and pressed. Then comes home covered in grass, markers, shirt untucked and a pocket full of pea gravel from the playground. Usually, they grow out of the slob stage along about Middle School, when the peer pressure sets in on them. My 13 year-old tries very hard to stay neat now.)

FaerieBeth - 33, Divorced, remarried, blended family, three children ages 2 to 13, full-time job

72

Actually, lots of couples survive with much less together time than this. The key is to make the little time you have together count.

73

My husband works in an office and is a commercial actor. I temp and am a waitress on the weekends and I often have performances and rehearsals.

There are times when I see him maybe 20 minutes a day, maybe, and we’ve been very happily married for ten years. I think it’s because we’re very happy being independent people some of the time, with our own groups of friends and our own interests, but when we’re together it’s like the best of friends hanging out.

74

I’m with Kal and jarbaby on this one. I won’t see my husband at all today (at least not when we’re both awake), nor will I see him tomorrow. Because of our work schedules, that’s standard for us. I come in from work about 2 am, and he usually wakes up enough to mumble at me for a minute, then I ratz around the house for a while. I’m usually asleep before he gets up and leaves, and I’m gone by the time he gets home, then he’s asleep when I come in. Basically, we see each other after he gets home from work on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, then between the time I drag out of bed and the time I leave for work on Saturday and Sunday. Oh, and he’s often still up when I come in on Saturday nights. We spend more than 24 hours home and awake together in a given week, we figure we’re doing incredibly well.

Like others have said, it’s not so much the quantity of time you have together as it is the quality of your time together. We don’t spend our time pissing and moaning at each other over the little things; we’ll be damned if we’re going to waste what little time we have together bickering like a couple of children. As a result, we have fewer fights and get to the concensus-building stage of conflicts sooner than a lot of couples I know. In that sense, it’s been good for us, because it’s forced us to prioritize issues and let the little shit go. Constart carping over the little stuff will erode a relationship waaaayyy faster than lack of time together.

75

I’m curious about this statement. Did you figure children into this? How would that work?
Notice I’m not talking about temporary situations- schooling, military service, etc. Sacrifice is understandable when you have a goal to work toward. It seems like this is the lifestyle that the OP will enjoy for the duration of her marriage. How can that work for anyone?

And, no surprise, I agree with my Lady Wife’s advice on the OP if she is unwilling to leave. Adopt a single mom worldview- it is the best coping mechanism you’ll have. Of course, I doubt that’s what you signed on for.

76

My high school friend’s father was an over-the-road truck driver. There were five children in the family, from age 19 to newborn. Many people have jobs that don’t allow them to spend time with the family. Sometimes that’s just the way it works out. This particular guy would be out for two or three weeks at a time and then home for a few days, then gone again. Doctors spend very little time with their families. My family doctor got around it by having his wife be his nurse in his practice. And now the son has joined the practice.

Lots of people have to work long hours or second jobs (or THIRD jobs) to make ends meet. It’s by no means rare.

77

I don’t agree with those advocating divorce. I am positive we are not seeing the whole picture. It’s hard to, on a message board. Your husband does sound like a big baby, though.

That said, you need to put the screws to your kids. Turn into a Fire Breathing Mom and quit taking their shit. Your son wants to fight over cereal with his sister? Fine. The next time he does it, box up everything in his room but the bed, take the door off the hinges and inform him that until he can act in a more mature manner, the door will remain gone and so will his stuff. If your girl is fighting, too, do the same thing. Unless she is severely developmentally disabled, I don’t see how treading lightly with her is doing her any favors. The real world sure as hell isn’t going to treat her with kid gloves.

You can’t stop them from waking up at 5am, but they can be told that from now on, Mom sleeps until 9am on Sundays, and is not to be woken up unless there is blood or a corpse involved. They start clawing at each other, make it hurt — ground 'em, take away their allowance, throw the book at 'em. If they’ve got any sense at all, they’ll straighten up.

When I was 3 – yes, 3 years old, I used to wake up at 5am on Saturdays to watch the Smurfs. My mother would put a bowl of cereal and a glass of milk in the fridge on Friday nights so she could sleep in. If a 3 year old can manage (my grandmother was around so I wasn’t completely alone but even she didn’t get up at 5am) for a couple of hours, so can your kids.

78

**trublmakr ** wrote

That’s nonsense. There are many many happy couples who get by on less. Also, you don’t seem to respect the idea that maybe financially dragongirl and he need him to work those kinds of hours. But most importantly, your absolute certainty about something that’s incorrect makes you look silly.

And the fact that you couldn’t make your marriage works makes you an expert how?

No, he’s there for her. Perhaps not as much as he should be. But he’s doing far more for her and her family than you are. You’re some text on the screen and not even reasonable text at that.

Your nick seems to suit you.

79

When I put together all the pieces you’ve given us, dragongirl, it looks like a very ugly picture indeed. From what you say, your husband sounds like a very mentally and verbally abusive ass who doesn’t respect women very much and may be trying to get into the neighbor woman’s pants. I hope I’m all wrong. Anyway, I nearly didn’t post because trublmakr has done such a fine job already. You can count his/her opinions as mine, though since they don’t align perfectly with Mr. Dragon’s ideas, and I’m female, he’s just going to blow them off anyway.
I believe someday you’ll make a big change, and be a lot happier.

80

Male, married 21 years.

Sounds like you two both want to own each other. Get over that. You don’t own each other. You are partners. If you can’t sort this out yourselves, get counseling.

Housework is a pain. We eventually hired a cleaning woman for $50 a week. She doesn’t do a fantastic job, but we’ve both tacitly decided that what she does is going to be enough for us, except for some picking up.

I was a househusband for a while, with two small children. It was work, but not that much work. Going to work 6 days a week is a lot harder. Give the guy a break.

On the other hand, I don’t like the idea of one spouse not sticking up for the other. No one in my family ever criticized my wife. I had one friend who got on her ass. The next day, he was an ex-friend. I might not cut off my family the same way for the same thing, but I’d make them real sorry they ever tried it.

Sex is not a competetive sport, and it’s not just getting your rocks off. It’s communication. It is the closest kind of communication two human beings can have, and it’s also integral to most marriages (assuming physical capability). If you don’t get it together there, you really don’t have a marriage. Again, if you can’t work this out, get counseling.

Frankly, this sounds like an immature relationship. A lot of marriages start out that way (mine did), but with work they get better. But you need to develop mutual respect, mutual confidence, and the ability not to sweat the small stuff. It might help to sit down and figure out just why you’re married in the first place.