The Curse of The Nice Guy

In My Humble Opinion
21

Awe hell I’ll throw ya a couple of bones. Even tho’ I’ve seen this thread like a cazillion times.

#! be opinionated. In other word don’t agree with everything a woman says just becuase you want to get on her “Good side” if she says something thats F’d up or you don’t agree with; let her know it

#2 Be funny

#3 Relax/ be confident (already been said I know.)

#4 Be apathetic: This works really well. What I mean by this is if a woman says something to you like “I don’t think I’m gonna be able to make our date friday night” your response should be something like “alright, whatever” don’t ask for any explanations as to why and don’t act like your bumed either. Just hang up the phone or go about your bussiness.

22

I disagree with this.

I am not looking for a sugar daddy. I make my own money. I don’t need excitement and drama. I prefer quiet. I’m not going to settle for a “nice guy” and deny him sex because he isn’t rich and exciting.

I want someone who is emotionally balanced. An emotionally balanced person respects themselves and others. They would not mistreat people, nor would they permit others to mistreat them or other people. An emotionally balanced person uses their skills (as opposed to someone capable of having a rewarding career but choosing to remain between minimum wage jobs) and has goals (even if they are simple goals.) Someone who has a worldview compatible with my own (meaning morals, opinions on important topics).

Money does not factor into this beyond the fact I’m not interested in dating someone who can’t hold down a job. Someone who just won’t work isn’t an issue due to money, but rather, it tells me they are wasting their talents and probably don’t put much effort into anything.

Contrary to what is said here during these types of threads, I don’t want a jerk. I am not going to be on this earth a long time, I’d like to enjoy myself, and that means surrounding myself with positive, happy people.

23

You should drive down from Stroudsburg partway, and I’ll drive up partway.

Neither of us will feel any better or understand women one whit more, but we can have a beer and compare woeful tales. :smiley:

24

Here Is Wisdom.

Or, in other words:

BE COOL! Women like their guys have have emotions, but they don’t like them overtly emotional. Whenever she does something that disappoints you in some way, mention your disappointment briefly and factually and then drop the subject. Women don’t like whiners. I know. I used to be a whiner. And I wised up quick.

25

Gosh, I never expected to see a Doper from Stroudsburg!

Listen Doc, I definitely must agree with what everyone has been saying about confidence…I consider myself a nice person, but nice does NOT mean a doormat. There is a huge difference between the two. You can be nice and still exude an air of confidence and “coolness”. You have to be a little bit cool. You must, must, must be.

My husband is an incredibly nice guy. Yet he doesn’t take my s*** in any way shape or form. He tells me when I’m wrong. He doesn’t always like the restaurant I suggest or my hair. And thank God! I don’t think I could stomach someone following me around intuiting my every need and desire. Um, well, that would be fun for an hour or so, but it would quickly become tiresome. Women want an equal partner. Not a jerk. Not an overly agreeable lap dog. Try to really look at your behavior with women. I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but you can’t win a woman with ice cream. You have to put yourself forward, take the initiative, ask her out. When she’s your girlfriend you can bring her ice cream…she’ll like that!:wink:

26

Gentlemen, look a little further west. I can think of at least one woman here who likes nice guys, and who considers nice a requirement for dating material.

The thing is, I have discouraged two “nice guys” from dating me. Here’s why.

The first one is a guy who I sing in choir with. I’ve known him for several years now, and know him reasonably well. He hasn’t got a mean bone in his body. The problem is, there’s no depth, strength, or breadth to him. Me, I tend to be rather strong-willed, passionate type with a propensity for mounting my white horse and tilting at windmills. I’ve come into church talking about the latest injustice in the local news, and he just shrugs his shoulders and says, “OK”. Not long after we met, he told me he had 16 bookshelves. I thought, “Cool! Sounds like my kind of guy!” They turned out to be 95% science fiction, 5% computers. Some years ago, when I was working on my resume, I left a message on his answering machine on a Friday night asking for help. He called me at 11:00 that night, and 8:00 the following morning, giving me the impression that I was his “last thought at night and first in the morning.”

The other guy I know less well but we worked for the same company at the same client for quite a while. He acted interested, and out coworkers kidded me about his interest, but he never asked me out. I can’t give you a lot of tangibles here, but I got the impression that this is another guy who couldn’t stand up to me, thus, by extension, would not stand up for me.

Nice guys, here’s the deal. I’m not a goddess, and I’m nowhere near as strong as I make myself out to be. Stand up to me. I’m looking for an equal and a partner. The men I have loved most have told me when I’m wrong, supported me when I’m weak, have not hesitated to discuss the Great Issues of Our Times with me stood up to me, and loved me for doing that. I’m pretty insecure myself, and I’m still working on dumping some old ideas about how ugly and unlovable I am, so puppy dog eyes only make me nervous. I don’t want to be your world – mine is still a bit screwed up. I would like to share your world and for you to share mine. There are all sorts of wonderful places to discover! While I can be weak at times, I am strong by nature, and I will support you when you’re down if I think you’ll support me. At the beginning of things, I may disagree with you to see your response. I admit that. If I do, don’t just shrug and say, “OK”, tell me why you disagree. I promise that the same passion I bring to defending “poor, downtrodden whatevers” will appear in bed later, and probably even more.

I hope this helps,
CJ

27

The guy in college who made my heart pound the most wasn’t looking like he would be either. He had a solid character though, and was dependable and kind. And we had a ton of sex. :smiley: He’s my husband now.

Breakup Girl’s site describes the problem as being that a lot of self-professed Nice Guys are what she calls “Loft Builders”. They do things like build lofts, bake cookies, walk the woman’s dog, tune up her car, etc. All very nice, kind things to do. All extremely non-romantic - you put yourself into the friend role by concentrating on this stuff.

From the start, I knew that the guy I mentioned above was interested in me, but since I was dating someone else at the time, he stayed within the bounds of polite behavior. But I could tell he was still interested, and we hung out as friends. And here was this nice but not “friend-only” guy who was obviously attracted to me, who was behaving much better than my then-boyfriend. So I dumped my ex when I couldn’t stand his behavior to me any longer, and soon started dating my friend. Like I said, he’s now my husband.

Another problem with some Nice Guys is they whine often and in public about how women only want jerks. I half-guarantee you that their listening audience is probably women who might be attracted to nice guys, but hearing the message “You women only want abusive assholes” is not exactly a turn-on.

Finally, maybe the women you’re attracted to aren’t good dating material. Some women do seem to be fixated on jerks for some reason, and they have to deal with that on their own. Certain men might benefit - since they can’t change the behavior of anyone but themselves - from asking themselves what they see in such women. It’s common for some reason to be attracted to guys with problems in hopes of “saving” them; perhaps it’s the same thing here.

28

Oh, and let me add here - I was the Girl Friend in high school. I had a ton of male friends, and they all thought of me as “one of the guys”… too much. Their dating prospects never included me. When I got to college, things opened up a lot because I was more laid back about showing attraction and approaching guys first/saying something instead of waiting with big eyes hoping some guy thought I was cute.

29

I had a post last night that the hamsters appear to have been snacking on. Or maybe they’re just hiding it in their little mouth pouches. No, wait, that’s chipmunks. Never mind.

Anyway, the upshot of it was this: It sounds like you’re focusing way to much on the outward signs of niceness and not on real, honest-to-goodness niceness. A true nice guy may not treat anyone like a princess, but he treats everyone well, with courtesy and respect. He’s understanding and sympathetic, but honest enough to tell you when you’re wrong. He’s not showing you what he thinks you want to see, he’s just being who he is.

I don’t want or need anyone to dance attendance on me and buy me ice cream. I can get my own ice cream, thank you very much. Yeah, it’s nice when someone buys it for me, but it’s also completely unnecessary.

What matters is the affection and respect which is supposed to prompt that sort of thing, and the ability to return said affection and respect. I can love and respect someone who forgets my birthday, but I can’t respect someone who lets me ride roughshod over him.

30

I’ve given this answer before, and as a long-time “nice guy” who couldn’t get a date, I feel qualified to ask it.

Dear OP- I don’t want to insult you or dismiss your pain, but look in the mirror, and ask yourself honestly: “Is my real problem simply that I’m too nice, or is there something else wrong with me?”

31

Respect is as important, if not more, than love IMHO. Neither of the extremes, bad boy or doormat, generate real respect from a woman. And you’ll have to respect yourself before someone else will.

Anyway, you guys have your own version of this nice guy/bad guy argument. That good ol’ Madonna / Whore Syndrome.

32

I’m in love with a very nice guy. After living with a mean SOB for ten years, “nice” was very high on my list of criteria.

But he’s not just nice. He’s also got a great sense of humor and an air of gentle confidence that is very appealing. He genuinely likes and respects women…a trait that perhaps deserves a thread unto itself for its rarity, ime at least. He’s decisive, strong, good-humored (I know I mentioned it, but again, very important to me), mature, and almost shockingly open sometimes.

In short, I think there’s more to being a “nice guy” than just being nice, if that makes sense.

Ben, honey:
There are a lot of different women out there…not all of us want bad-ass rich boys. Speaking for myself, the LAST thing I need in my life is a man with a lot of money. Gah! The issues that would arise!
And it happens that MY nice guy gets laid a LOT, thankyouverymuch.

33

Well, while I do agree that confidence and being resolute are important points, I get the impression that some women just can’t discern between “confidence” and “bullshit bragging”.

The nice guy would never boast about his accomplishments and since everybody else does, it is assumed that the nice guy has got no accomplishments whatsoever.

I think Shakes gave the best advice how to behave. Even if point #4 doesn’t increase your success with women (although I think it will), it’ll spare you the heartache from being turned down.

I used to take everything to heart, but now that I simply don’t care anymore, things are going much better.

34

Well, here is a thread I started a week or so ago to put forth my personal theory on the subject…

Barry

35

godzillatemple, did you read this link posted in your last thread?

36

ultrafilter: Yes, I did read that link. It’s from 1995 and states that testosterone may not be linked to aggression afterall. However, it is so full of “may” and “perhaps” that it is not what I would consider definitive by any means. Besides, the study even admits that there is still evidence linking testosternoe to agression:

I still think it’s possible that high testosterone levels simulaneously make men more attractive to women and prevent them from being “nice guys,” meaning that women who complain about not meeting nice guys wouldn’t be attracted to them if they met them. It’s just a theory, though…

Barry

37

From reading the above, it’s obvious we have to distinguish between “nice” meaning “being considerate” and “nice” meaning “being a passive doormat”. Isn’t the former supposed to be a good thing?

38

I have posted this before in similar threads but here it is again.

I had this bookmarked once but the link died and I have been unable to locate another source. About a decade ago I saw a study done in the US. I think it was done with something like 4000 unmarried females. They asked half of them to rank the top ten things they looked for in a date. The other half were asked what the top ten traits of their perfect husband.

When they compiled the data they found that there was not one item that showed up on both lists.

In short women go out on dates to have fun and so pick guys who are fun. So they end up dating and marrying the “fun” guys. They also end up devorcing the “fun” guys who are also imature, unfaithful, substance abusers, irresponsible, etc, etc, etc.

Meanwhile the guys they say they want as their ideal husbands sit home on a Saturday night because they are not fun, dangerous, exciting, unpredictable, risk takers, etc, etc, etc.

As far as how to deal with this, well I’m one of the “nice guys” and never went on a date in my life. I am also married for 11 years and never happier. My answer is, “opt out of the system” don’t play the, “please date me” game. As long as a woman is looking at you as “dating material” you don’t have a chance.

39

Doc’ Trauma

Dude, if all you’re being is nice, why would a girl be anything but nice to you? Nice is good, but it ain’t the whole package.

There’s a difference between the nice guy and the good one: the good one is nice PLUS is exiting, successful, interesting, sexual, capable and independent. They have boundaries and will push back when taken advatage of.

Take a look at yourself? If a girl is little more than “nice,” does that fulfill your qualifications?

I bet it doesn’t.

40

FWIW, this link came up in one of the previous threads on this topic:

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml