The fingerwaggin' BigT

The BBQ Pit
101

I have been reluctant to post because I keep vacillating on whether to defend BigT or chime in with support for the OP. Guess which direction the above quote makes me lean?

I don’t think moralizing makes anyone “good”, BigT. I don’t think it signifies “goodness”. I think all it does is make the moralizer feel better about himself. It has been my experience that good people don’t have to remind others of their goodness. Nor do they have to remind others of their “badness”. Notice how this board is full of perfectly good people? If everyone was into moralizing, this place would be a lot more boring.

At any rate, you can moralize without lecturing. A couple of sentences and an eye-roll emojii are generally more effective than a long-winded shrieking screed. I don’t think anyone has a problem with you issuing harsh judgment, since we all do this on occasion. It’s how you do it that’s annoying.

102

Spice Weasel, I love ya, but shut the fuck up. You have your own issues you’ve worked through, but you are projecting a whole fucking lot on me. I am not a mini-you going through the same stages.

How’s that for breaking my own rules? I’m being unnecessarily snide to someone I actually like. I’m escalating beyond the condescension level you had towards me (though your post was condescending). Rather than consider how I might affect you, I just posted the first thing that came to mind in as sassy a way as I could.

(And even then I didn’t go all the way. I didn’t just say “Shut up, SpiceTard” or whatever. I did at least explain a bit. And I didn’t say far more deliberately insulting things, which I could easily do for the same reason others can do it to me: you’ve revealed some stuff about your life that people can use against you.)

Anyways, compare that first paragraph with that of my following post, where I’ll say what I actually want to say in this situation. I think you’ll see that following the “rules” is a lot better.

103

Okay, before I do my Spice Weasel post, I’ll pause to give a response to monstro.

Yes, you can moralize without being an asshole. That is what I attempt to do a lot of the time. I don’t always succeed, but I try. (Though, sometimes, I combine moralizing and being an asshole on purpose. This is the Pit, and the point of it is to piss people off sometimes.)

But your solution is useless. A few sentences and a rolleyes doesn’t change anything. I’ve literally never changed my behavior because of that. How it that useful?

And, true, there are a lot of good people on this board. And every last one of them moralizes. They see something wrong and they tell people about it. That’s moralizing.

What you insist I do may be moralizing, but it’s the useless kind that doesn’t actually achieve anything. While I’ve seen people change their behavior after I point out the bad behavior, even if they also yell at me about it.

Is that not why you guys are moralizing me in this thread?

(Which is also frustrating. “Don’t do this!” people say, while doing that very thing. Which message am I supposed to believe?)

104

What would we ever do around here without your shining words of wisdom to teach us the way, BigT?

105

BigT, I gave you the best possible advice. I’ll reiterate. If you are comfortable with who you are and you aren’t harming people stop giving so much weight to anonymous people’s opinions. It will only frustrate you.

106

Now back to the regularly scheduled response to Spice Weasel.

Spice Weasel, I want to thank you for trying to help me out. But I’m afraid you are off-base here. I know that you really want to help other people. It’s what makes you a good person. But we’re not all going through the same things you are.

I used to be far more diplomatic, and nice to both sides. And I find that approach to be naive. I used to think all people had some good in them, but I find that to be naive.

I am not trapped by being good. For one thing, I don’t find being good to be a burden. And, for another thing, I’m nowhere near perfectly good. I let loose all the fucking time. What I don’t do is cross certain lines–because I know how much it would bother me if people crossed it on me.

And my lines aren’t fixed, either. They’ve changed over time. As long as I adhere to good intent, I can change the lines as much as I want.

And I’m not sure where people get the idea that I don’t snark. I snark. I just reject using snark as a substitute for an argument. I either snark to (attempt) to be funny, or I snark to get a point across, which I then elaborate on.

What I don’t do is bring up the many things that people have revealed about their lives and use it as a way to attack other people. And, no, I’m not going to cross that line intentionally. It’s awful. I want to at times, but I don’t.

I also pay attention to who is sensitive, and try not to hurt people. While, if you’re not sensitive, then I lay it on thick, just like you supposedly want. What gets me angry is when I’m told I have to be more sensitive to these people’s feelings than they are to everyone else’s.

I have more, but I actually have to think about it to figure them out. None of these are even really “rules.” They’re just how I naturally behave. Even though I let myself loose this board, I still inherently see these lines as lines not to cross.

I know that, in the past, I said I wanted to be more like you, Spice Weasel. That is no longer the case. I have no problem with you doing what you do, but I’m not you. I have no intention of going backwards to be the pollyanna type. I have no intention of embracing the “SJW” concept (as being real), and I have no intention of becoming more moderate. I’ve rejected that way of being.

You do you. But I am my own person on my own journey, and mine is not about having strict rules I need to violate, and I do not feel trapped being good all the time. If anything, I feel I let loose too much when I get angry.

That’s when I fuck up. I think some people are worse than they are because I’m pissed at them. I have an anger problem.

I also don’t view “not caring about what other people think” as a good thing. I think it describes a concept that can be good, but can very well be taken too far. I use it here simply because I know that being well-liked is not a possibility. But I’ve known that since 2009. Elsewhere, I’m nice, because I care about how other people think and don’t want to hurt them. Other places, I hold back, and try to stay on a happy world.

But this board has a Pit. This board has people who enjoy disliking each other. It’s not a place of warm happiness, so I treat it differently.

You really don’t know about my real life. I’ve stopped telling anyone. Because I know it will just be used against me. Hence why it crosses a line to say anything about it.

And, even though your post was condescending and finger-wagging, I’m not freaking out about that. I’m sorry, but freaking out about that is just dumb, and I don’t want to accommodate that.

I will try to be a better poster in my own way, with my own goals. Practical advice on how to portray my “moralizing” better in a way that annoys fewer people is great. Acting like I’m going to change who I am? Not going to happen.

I will always believe that we must deal with the smaller problems to proven bigger problems. I may decide it’s not worth it, but that calculation apparently differs from that of a lot of people.

And, on this board, if I feel like someone deserves to be insulted, I’ll dish out an insult just like everyone else–even if that takes the form of a condescending lecture. Sure seems to accomplish the insulting goal better, since people freak out about it so much.

107

Well, we have behaved similarly at times, it’s a reasonable conjecture and was an attempt to facilitate understanding.

I’ve never called you or anyone else a “Tard.” In the majority of cases when I bitch about someone, it’s their behavior I address, not their person. I don’t like conflict, nor do I enjoy hurting people’s feelings. I just get frustrated and complainy like anyone else. I think some people are motivated by cruelty, but very few. I’m even willing to bet this board has fewer sociopaths relative to the general population. Who wants to start a poll?

108

BigT, I have had nothing against you since I first noticed you on this board. I’ve felt like you keep getting undeserved hostility and rude statements that insult not just you, but other people.

That said… stop. This is a pit thread about you. The best thing you can do at this point is to learn from the useful posts and ignore the blank insults. Posting more will just make everything worse. You’re welcome to ignore me, of course; this is merely my advice based on observation.

109

{edited to remove the bits where BigT doesn’t talk about himself, but otherwise verbatim}

110

You guys are harsh.

111

It’s not clear from the response… Are you under the impression I have ever used your personal life against you? I know nothing about your personal life, so that would be difficult. I recall you had anxiety issues, which, you know, I’m having those right this second so it would be pretty damned hypocritical to judge you for that.

I used to care what everyone thought. Now I mostly care what certain people think. The scope has narrowed. If there was a consensus among those people about my behavior, I would be inclined to listen. I’ve opted to risk being open about my life because the potential for human connection is greater when I’m honest. I can’t knock anyone for keeping it close to the vest, though. I just know every time I question the decision to be open, someone sends me an encouraging message thanking me for talking about what they feel they can’t. I have made a lot of bonds with people here because of it.

If you’re open to suggestion as you say, try not to tell people their feelings are wrong. You just did that to me in the SJW thread. It’s unhelpful because people can’t actually control their emotional responses. In this case, when I said the idea of losing my artistic livelihood due to internet outrage over stupid bullshit is terrifying, you told me that it is not terrifying because something something (see the effect there? Total tuneout.) Instead try arguing that although I might feel XYZ, the evidence suggests (and do present evidence) that reality is ABC. In this case, you might have pointed out, as my friends did, that the victim’s career managed to recover and maybe even got a boost as a result of her persecution. But I would of course respond with evidence that this is a real and serious problem and that is but a single optimistic example of the new landscape for writers. In which case you might realize there’s a whole reality you’ve never considered and know nothing about. Or maybe you do know all about it and have further, informed counterarguments. That’s a conversation we never would have with your response as currently written, because I’m not going to seriously engage someone who tells me how I should feel.

I think that’s the difference between a lecture and a conversation.

112

It really should be BigI

113

I should have specified that it was post 106, but you could do the same with anything he posts. Does he actually contribute anything to this board beyond being a wretched little scold? Are there any albums he likes, movies he recommends, stories of his dog he wants to share, anecdotes about his family he’d like to relate, or is he just here to extol how good he is compared to everyone else in handy nagging format? I honestly don’t recall him providing anything of substance here.

114

Do you honestly think anyone has changed their behavior in response to a long-winded screed from you or anyone else? Because I’ll tell you…whenever I see you posting in this way, I don’t even bothering reading. In fact, I always feel second-hand embarrassment for you because I know that you’re going to be handed the inevitable “SHUT UP, BIGTARD”, which of course is a hurtful thing to have to hear. If you like hearing those words, okay. But just realize you’re not improving this community by taking on the role of martyred schoolmarm. You’re just providing peanuts to the gallery.

Telling someone they have BO is not moralizing. It’s letting someone know that they are rubbing some people the wrong way with their odor.

You have BO sometimes, BigT. If you’re fine with that, okay. But it’s not like there’s nothing you can do to stop pissing people off. When you aren’t wagging your finger at folks, you’re a great poster.

Do a lot of posters go around lecturing you in other threads completely unprovoked? Because I don’t think they do, but maybe I’ve missed it. Yes, people are lecturing you in this thread. And? That doesn’t mean you being preachy in other threads isn’t annoying.

115

In the very least, I think I’ve worked out the je ne sais quoi that drives me apeshit about certain BigT posts. It’s a vague ideological pronouncement that implies an unwillingness to further engage. in the SJW thread, that consists of bending over backward to discount and ignore other people’s feelings lest we do something terrible like acknowledge the fact that some people purporting to fight for ‘‘social justice’’ are destructive, bullying assholes. It’s actually the very opposite of empathy, and the whole ‘‘all SJW actions are defensible and sancrosanct’’ is very Reaganesque in its application.

If someone intentionally and maliciously ruins an artist’s reputation based on false information, it doesn’t matter because they

Basically, he’s a liberal apologist. (In this case, he seems to mistakenly believe these wonderful kids have actually read the book they are excoriating, so he’s being an apologist based on his own version of reality rather than the facts.)

How does one meaningfully respond to that level of arrogance, other than ‘‘STFU’’? We don’t respond well when conservatives do it, why should we respond well when liberals do it?

116

ISTR that he actually gives good (?)* advice about computer related questions.
So there’s that.

  • I’m not knowledgeable enough to judge the actual quality, but it seems as if is to the point and it’s certainly been delivered without lecturing or scolding.
117

Well, it’s better than “BigTard”, but I think a simple “Shut up, BigT” would be best. It could be the SDMB’s “Bye, Felicia.” (Do people still say that? I’m not that hip, so they probably stopped around the time I found out about it.)

You’re giving him credit for a more consistent and deeply-held ideology than I think he actually possesses. He has at times posted some things that seemed rather sexist or homophobic to me. To be fair he’s very far from our worst offender in that regard, but I definitely wouldn’t consider him one of our most progressive posters either.

With regard to “SJW” types attacking people online, I haven’t been following the SJW thread, but a CS thread from last year about the 2016 Ghostbusters movie was recently bumped and at the time BigT seemed very much against this sort of thing. He was upset about YouTuber James Rolfe being criticized for refusing to review the movie and what BigT referred to as “overblown claims of misogyny”. (See here and here.) I’ll admit that I’m tempted to conclude that BigT is only opposed to this sort of thing when it happens to a man, but it seems at least as likely that he’s really just taking whatever position allows him to start with the more-moral-than-thou act in a particular thread.

118

From here.

Thanks LHOD! I take back one or two of the nasty things I said about you.

119

If that is what is needed to highlight the gargantuan issues of scale between the two to the ideologically blinkered, then yes, perhaps this is the wrong medium.

120

Oh, I don’t know…maybe I just don’t like you and your long, miserable yinzer twat history at this board and others. What, you thought you were universally beloved?