Seriously I feel depressed. And it’s not just because I will, if I go to bed right now, have 4 hours of sleep for the night. But I can’t sleep unless I write this and if I’m going to write, I might as well just blurt it out for the teeming millions. Why the hell not, huh?
It’s because of a girl. “Well duh,” says the masses. Touche’ says Ender.
This is a girl that never was and never will be. In fact, I’m not entirely sure I ever wanted her in the first place. Maybe I did. I think I did. I don’t know. But the fact is that she rejected me without me even knowing. I’m just confused because I don’t have even the slightest inkling into the female mind. I’m not making too much sense, am I?
So it’s like this: I’m at a friend’s house on Saturday night talking with a girl who’s a friend of a friend in from out of town. We’ve known each other for years. We’re in my friend’s room alone and we’re talking and having a good time when she gets up and I get up right after her and I grab her and sort of tickle her.
Why did I do this? I don’t know, it felt right. Was I attracted to her? Yes. Was I interested in her sexually? Not sure. It just felt right and I did it. Nothing came of it and I didn’t think anything of it until tonight. My friend told me that she told him afterwards she was a little weirded out by the experience. Was I flirting with her? Was I crossing the line? What was going on.
Now, to add my opinion in at this point (as if I haven’t already) I think she was overreacting just a tad. The incident was nothing. It was two seconds and we went on with our lives.
But what got me depressed was this:
First, she never said anything. I would have liked to have known if I made her uncomfortable after it happened because I never would have given it a second thought it my friend hadn’t told me tonight. Now I’ve got to e-mail her and apologize for something I’m not sure I did wrong.
Secondly, my love life sucks. Always has and always will. This is the root of the problem. I have a hard enough time dealing with normal women on a normal basis that I don’t need this shit piled on top of it. I get tense meeting new women, I can’t talk to them in bars or restaurants, life is difficult enough as it is.
I can’t read women either. If a woman wants me, she’d better put it in writing because I’m obviously blind to the most basic of clues. I wouldn’t even venture to guess the number of opportunities I’ve missed because I couldn’t read the road maps staring me straight in the face.
Apparently I’m extremely good at misguessing though, based upon my shot down advances. That’s, of course, when I get the courage to even make them in the first place. “No, I don’t want to kiss you, can’t we just be friends?” sigh.
That alone is enough to depress me, but now I’ve got to deal with the fact that apparently I’m pissing girls off by unintentionally making advances. How am I supposed to know when I do that?
Overreaction or not, it makes me sad to know that I did make her feel uncomfortable with whatever I did on Saturday. But the fact is that I got rejected once again. I just didn’t find out for four days. That’s apparently how blind I am to the problem.
Wow, is this fucking long enough? Should I even bother reading it over? That would probably just depress me even more. I don’t think I can adaquately express why I feel as bad as I do, but it just seems like every step I take is in the wrong direction. Like I’m helpless and destined to remain clueless forever.
Maybe 3 and a half hours of sleep will cheer me right up.
In all seriousness, Enderw24 – have some chocolate handy in the fridge for times like this. Give the serotonin a little kick-start legally.
And if people like this girl can’t be mature enough to tell you straight to your face if she felt uncomfortable – well, you don’t need a stranger telling you this. Hope you have a good sleep (4 hours! That’s some fast memory back-up time, there!), and wake up way better when you do.
Just wanted to let you know that someone out here’s listening to you. Go to bed - it may or may not look better in the morning, but at least you’ll be in a more rational state of mind. Take care.
Ender, I have always found clueless men charming, in a naive sort of way. I wish I could type something here to cheer you up a tad but instead I will do the only thing I can. {Ender} Dream well.
Now that that’s taken care of… I wish I could say all women look at you for who you are. Many don’t. They can be terribly, terribly shallow. That means the fault is in them. But not all women are like that. Some of them will take the time to get to know you and then fall for you and want to make it work (or at least give it a good shot trying). Those are the ones you need to stick by. Because those are the ones that, even if it doesn’t come out as anything more than a friendship, will be there for life. As far as seeing signs and reading roadmaps… The right one will tell you at the right time. There are some signs that are hard to miss (Had a friend that told me once about how a girl he liked sat on his lap, stroked his face, kissed him and told him she wanted him. How he missed it, I don’t know! Even another friend, who is also a big roadmap misser, commented that he wouldn’t have missed that one! So I doubt that you would miss something that blatant! ) Most likely, you’ll have a female friend do to you what I did to lurker… tell you how they feel straight out and open. Then you can take the time to see if there’s anything more there than the friendship. Because any friend like that is going to know that you don’t catch the usual flirt signs, and know what you need to do to make things known. Changing a good friendship to a relationship is a far better way to go than meeting someone and starting the relationship from there.
The board persona that I’ve seen so far I think is cute. (Heck, I even flirted with you in that flirt thread a couple months back, even while you tried to make it a joke!) I don’t know what advice to give insofar as feeling more comfortable around women. I am a very shy person by nature and feel uncomfortable around anyone I’m meeting for the first time, and haven’t figured out how to get over it yet. But if you need someone to bounce thoughts off of, my e-mail is always open.
[sub]And if this makes little to no sense, it’s because I only got 4 hours of sleep, too! ;)[/sub]
You thought that I was joking in that thread, TruePisces? No, no, no. If this thread here has taught you anything, it’s that I really could knock myself out with a pool ball and die a slow agonizing death in an attempt to talk to a woman. It might be considered euthenasia.
Thanks all who’ve responded so far. I’m not looking for pity, I just couldn’t sleep until it was off my chest and now it is. It’s not better. I’m not less depressed. I’m just more tired. feh.
I’m going to write the girl today. Let’s see how it turns out. Before anyone else goes off telling me that she’s immature, etc, realize that she was fine to me the rest of the weekend. Other than one instance directly after the encounter, I never noticed any bad blood between us. Either she kept it extremely well hidden or she realized it wasn’t that big of a deal after all.
I’m not upset with her. I’m upset with the situation. I’m not good at talking to women, I’m not good at making moves with women, I’m not good at noticing when women make a move, and now I find out that I’m apparently not good at making moves when I wasn’t even making a move. What’s next? Some girl comes to my house and slaps me for a perverted dream I had? Seriously, it’s absurd and I’m sick of it.
Enderw24-I am sorry. I have the same problem as you do, only with men. Who knows how many times I have been flirted with; they probably figure I’m too dense. I am also extremely shy and you are very lucky to have me talking to you here…
You know you have difficulty picking up on subtle cues that someone might be attracted to you. You know you feel clueless about how to tell someone you’re attracted to them.
Take that self knowledge and use it to your advantage.
Talk to women online. A lot. Flirt, make friends, get comfortable talking with attractive members of the opposite gender. Start with women too far away to actually meet, because you aren’t looking to do that. You’re looking to establish friendships, and at the same time educate yourself more in dealing with the opposite gender.
Learn how to admit your cluelessness in a friendly and preferably humorous manner.
I’ve always been fond of “Sure I can take a hint… if you apply it with a big enough sledge hammer”.
Heck, participate and learn in the flirting threads here, I am sure there are ladies here who would be happy to tutor you in the finer points of good flirting. (Ok, I didn’t go ask them, but knowing this place, I really doubt you’d be short of volunteers).
It doesn’t matter whether a person is straight, bi, or gay, learning to interact with those you are attracted to takes work, and is a learning process. Don’t let the apparent ease others do these things with fool you. Most of them are just as clueless and anxious as you are.
I don’t know what to tell you, but I’m here, and I’m listening. And awkward isn’t a bad thing. Though I know it feels that way sometimes. (Really I do.) Good luck with talking to her…
As a side note, being “weirded out” by the incident…well, it just may mean she didn’t expect it, or was thrown off guard…it’s kinda odd to be flirted with by people you didn’t expect, and if it’s not something you usually do, “weirded out” may just be the best way for her to describe “off kilter.” Again, just MHO, but I figured I’d throw it out there.
From what I’ve seen here, you’re a wonderful, funny, great guy…and eventually you’ll find someone. Really.
Ah, see dublos, therein lies the problem. I don’t have any problems online. Online I’m a normal functioning human being with playful barbs and sarcastic wit and a libido the size of Detroit with a polished set of St. Paul and Minneapolis to boot. I have no problems talking to strangers or, say hypothetically, airing intimate details of my mental state to the entire world.
In short, if you want to flirt, bring it on.
And in real life I don’t actually have a problem communicating with women that I know or that I’ve met. But tell me to go up to a strange girl and I’ll turn into a quivering bowl of jello. Tell me to put the moves on a girl and I’ll sit there for an hour and a half waiting for the right moment, debating whether she wants it, whether she’ll push me away, whether I’ll ruin the friendship or whether there was friendship there in first place. I’ll wait for the moon to allign with Saturn and for her to collect her first social security check and then I sit at home wondering what went wrong.
Of course I could just say “I’d really like to kiss you.” which is probably the most unromantic thing you can say and invariably ends up with “no.”
The fact is that almost nothing in the world embarasses me. Except for talking with women I don’t know. It’s illogical. Completely illogical. I realize this, I accept this, but I haven’t been able to change this. For that, I’m depressed. And I’m depressed even more than there’s now apparently one more thing I need to worry about doing.
No, it’s not. I’ve had a guy use it on me. It worked. I said yes, and I don’t think the two of us came up for air for a couple hours.
Everyone has some minor phobia IRL, Ender. Mine is talking on the phone (or in person) with people I don’t know. Which is pretty sad, since 60% of my job consists of me calling strange clients (and I’ve been told by my co-workers that I have a great phone personality, so they can’t understand it) The fear has become a severe liability, so I’m doing the only thing I know how… forcing myself to make the phone calls. Yes, I still stammer and babble sometimes and get off the phone saying “My GOD what a total idiot I am.” But I force myself to pick up the phone to make the next call, no matter how badly the first one went.
Maybe you need to do something similar. Force yourself to go up to strange girls that you find attractive. You may stammer something out and some of them might look at you a little oddly, but I’ll lay odds that there’s also going to be at least one (if not more) of the shy, sensitive types that we see the courage that it took for you to do this and react favorably. But you don’t know until you try. Who knows what you’ll find.
Can I add something to the really wonderful advice you’ve received so far? Practial experience can be a truly marvelous resource…at last I get to use some.
Forget about what you should say. Forget about how you should act or look or feel. Just be yourself. It’s the absolute easiest thing to do and you’re the only person who can pull it off. Being you, that is.
If you want to clutter your sweet brain with thoughts about the women you want to meet, consider the fact that they don’t know you. Don’t know your next move. Don’t know the way you listen to your friends when you’re tired, but they need you. Don’t know how frustrated you get by little quirks. Don’t know what you fear or desire or what song is running through your head right now.
All this and more. And they don’t have the slightest clue. You want to be different than you think you are now with women? Remember that all the really unique things that make you the cool person you are…will still be unique and cool and intact, whether the girl clues in or not. This is what makes you a special person BEFORE you get the girl, not because you get the girl.
People are…well, people. And they’ll most likely never act the same way twice. Spend your time trying to figure out what they’re thinking and you’ve wasted some time. Be yourself. Set personal standards for the kind of man you want to be and stick to them. Then, no matter what the situation or how it turns out, you’ll know you handled yourself the best you could.
What bright, caring girl would pass up a man who owes it to himself to be good to himself?
Yeesh…sorry. Did any of that even make sense? Way too long a post.
Anyway. Take care of you.
Ender, I don’t know what to say other than I hope things get better for you. I think it’s good that you’re following up with her and I hope things work out for you, if not with her, then with the next. You just have to keep trying.
Not the same situation, but I got 2 hours of sleep on Tuesday night and spent at least 3 or 4 hours crying yesterday, if not more… I had to leave work early yesterday because I couldn’t hold it together anymore. I trusted someone who ultimately didn’t deserve it, and lost a friend as a result. I don’t know yet if it’s worth trying to repair or not. Trust, once broken, is not easily rebuilt. I can put up with a lot of shit from friends, but lack of honesty is not one of them.
Obviously I’m not the only one who’s having a rotten week.
As a man in Minneapolis, that’s a slightly disturbing description :o
I don’t suppose this lady is online, so you could take this up in e-mail rather than face to face?
Nobody says that the only way to meet the woman of your dreams is to walk to up a complete stranger and say “Hi, I’ve been sitting there dumbfounded by your stunning self for the last 20 minutes trying to come up with a witty pick up line, and I can’t come up with anything… wanna chat anyway?”
Hey, Ender & dlgirl:
I as a fellow teenage person can feel your pain. I have a similar and yet different problem. During middle school, the time when people usually go out with whoever for fun and just for the experience (though i doubt you can call it going out since you really never go anywhere), I was extremely shy. As a result, i never aquired those social skills that apply to inter-sex relationships. Then due to a number of reasons, for freshman year of high school i became rather introverted, and lost many of my old friendships. Now (my sophmore year of high school), as a result of these two misfortunes, I have a problem.
You see, whenever I have an opportunity to speak to a girl i don’t have the slightest idea what to say, do etc. Resultingly, i retreat into the nearest book, work etc. Now as a result, i have even less experiece with girls. it’s a vicious cycle and i don’t know how to stop it.
FWIW, ender, my SO and I are both very quiet people (my SO much more than I; he sounds a lot like you, actually), but when we met, we started talking and haven’t stopped for over a year now. It seems to me that as you get older you lose a lot of your fear of the opposite sex, just like you stop caring so much what other people think of you. Course, your knees and back start to hurt, so it’s kind of a tradeoff.
Regarding the episode with the girl and tickling - I probably would have reacted much the same as her. Some of us are just less physical with acquaintances than other people. Even the people who have known me for years aren’t welcome to tickle me. I wouldn’t take what she said as a rejection of you; just as a matter of bad timing, perhaps.
And Ender? The folks here have given some very useful advice. Hell, it’s advice that I know I can use myself.
Just remember that things do get better. Every time my life went to crap (the most recent crapfest was last November, and it looks like I’m about to have another one soon), I stressed out, got depressed, lost sleep, but then eventually got better. The same will be for you.
Hate to spill the beans but females find men just as incomprehensible and frustrating, Ender. True fact. Really, it’s hard to believe when you’re feeling blue and down on yourself but both sexes stumble around trying to decipher a non-existant code of what the other one wants. Actually reading what gay posters have written I’m beginning to suspect NOBODY knows what the hell to do when attraction/loneliness/interest kicks in.
So by her own words she was “a little weirded out”, as related to your mutual friends. NOT repulsed; NOT afraid; NOT disgusted. Believe me, women find very explicit, uncomplimentary ways to describe scary advances. Look at this another way: could be she was expressing her own human confusion to her friends. I don’t know but her comment could just as well be interpreted as a delicate pumping operation along the lines of, “d’ya think it meant he likes me?” or “should I take this as kidding or ya think he was attracted?”
All I’m saying is don’t magnify this out of proportion. At absolute MOST you might extend her an apology for unintentionally startling her. She didn’t express disgust, either physically or verbally. She could well be just as confused and puzzled trying to figure YOU out. If nothing else, a straightfoward apology could clear the air.
You’re one helluva bright, funny, interesting guy. Trust me. I’m female. I NOTICE this sort of thing. Those “online” qualities don’t go away in person, they’re just masked by nerves. Don’t beat yourself up or elevate her. She’s just as prone to human dithering and misconceptions. So don’t do her or yourself a disservice by making too much of this.
Romantic bumbling is the norm. The ones (male and female) who do it all perfectly, smoothly and to music are usually pretty toxic.
Truer words were never typed. When I read this, I thought about all the incredibly stupid, clueless, asinine, weird, odd, incomprehensible, irritating, boring, and/or idiotic things that I have done in the name of chasing after men. Holy crap, I’m not a blusher, but if I was, I would be burning bright red right now. Listen up, all you guys; women are just as stupid as men. Any woman who claims differently is lying, lying, lying. Oh yeah, we fart, too. We’re just not as proud of it
) Most likely, you’ll have a female friend do to you what I did to lurker… tell you how they feel straight out and open. Then you can take the time to see if there’s anything more there than the friendship. Because any friend like that is going to know that you don’t catch the usual flirt signs, and know what you need to do to make things known. Changing a good friendship to a relationship is a far better way to go than meeting someone and starting the relationship from there.
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